http://www.anthony-roberts.com/dave_tate.html
Table for Two: An Interview with Dave Tate
by: Anthony Roberts
Several weeks ago, I happened to participate in a roundtable discussion with, among other notable speakers, Dave Tate. I actually happened to meet him in the lobby the day prior. Actually, he and I were cornered in the hotel bar’s bathroom by an attendee of the seminar who wanted to discuss everything…in the bathroom: training, steroids, quantum physics, etc. Not surprisingly, everyone recognizes Dave (hmm, let’s see, for starters Dave is nearly 300lbs). But the thing that surprised me most is that the dude who recognized Dave actually recognized me too. And, when the guy said hello to me, and I introduced myself to him and Dave formally, Dave made a comment about my book! He didn’t have a copy, but he actually knew who I was! So why would this be a big deal to me?
Well, Dave is probably the most famous member of the (in)famous Westside Barbell Club, Powerlifting’s most elite team. He’s squatted over 900lbs, benched over 600lbs, and deadlifted over 700lbs, while obtaining elite status in four different weight classes, and helping numerous professional athletes obtain levels of strength they’d never even have been able to reach otherwise. When Dave talks, anyone who is interested in strength listens, so the mere fact that he had heard of my book and knew who I am was a huge compliment.
Anyway, I kept in touch with Dave from that point on (and, oddly, the other dude from the bathroom too), and scheduled a phone interview with him on training. He said he was traveling and would call me from the road to do the interview. Of course, he called me while I was driving to the gym, and told me that his flight was delayed and running late, etc. I told him it was cool, and he mentioned that he always “****ing hated flying to Newark …”
Well, here's the thing: I live right by Newark (NJ), and said I could just pick him up if he wanted. He offered to pay for dinner and do the interview at a restaurant of my choosing. Sweet…free food!
So about fifteen minutes before he was scheduled to land, he called me and said he was stuck on the tarmac in Washington D.C. and was delayed. So I ended up picking him up about an hour and a half late, and doing some quick math, that told me that he'd be starving, and ready to eat ASAP. Unfortunately, he neglected to tell me which terminal he was arriving at, then called me and told me he was at terminal B, then later called and amended that to terminal A. So, I ended up doing laps around Newark airport. By the time I found Dave, I was eager to get into some training conversations.
So there we were, at Madisons in Hoboken , NJ , just Dave Tate and I, and here's how the conversation and dinner went:
AR - So Dave, I guess since I have you here for a few hours, I'll get into some stuff that we'd probably be talking about anyway...lets go over some basics. But first…I guess, I wanna know how much of the shit we read about Westside Barbell Club is true? I mean…how much is really what goes on there?
DT - All of it. All of the shit you read about in my articles and Louie [Simmons'] articles is totally true. People read about Westside and think, “That's it?”…but it's all true. There's nothing held back, no secrets, no nothing…we tell it like it is. The thing is, people just read it and say, “I'm going to go do it” and they put in this half assed effort, they miss workouts, they don't break their asses and push real weight, then they don't get results and they think there must be some super-double-secret technique or drug that we have at Westside that's responsible for our success. That's simply not true. The secret is working hard, not reading some ****ing article.
[At this point, I'm watching in amazement as Dave scarfs down his third straight glass of Pepsi, and orders a huge steak for his main course - no surprise there - I've been to dinner with Dave twice and he had steak both times. I am, for the record, on my second Sam Adams of the night]
AR - Yeah, I've always wondered though…I mean…do people go to Westside who are just already naturally strong, and you guys build on that, or do you get people who aren't like…anywhere near the level of the rest of the club.
DT - Oh yeah, we get guys who wouldn't even win a local meet. We've had guys in their late twenties who didn't even total what I did at my first meet in my teens. It doesn't matter, the Westside program works for everyone who goes there.
AR - But why do people have to go there? I mean…why can't people just do it on their own? Why is the success rate so much lower when people try it on their own?
DT - Well…people can definitely succeed when they do the program on their own…but succeeding with the Westside program and methods is dependant on the effort you put in. I'll put it to you this way: if you came to Westside, you'd be working out with guys who can bench almost double what you can, and they'd be pushing you every day, kicking your ass to get stronger. You can't not get stronger in that atmosphere. I don't care who you are, it's difficult to create that kind of intensity alone in your garage working out, and it's even more difficult if you're at a Bally's. When you have the top power athletes in the world yelling at you to move that ****ing bar off your chest, you'll do it. Westside methods work anywhere, anytime, for anyone, but the intensity has to be supplied by the lifter. Look, it comes down to this: you can't do board presses with 500lbs at Bally's. Ok? You just ****ing can't. Nobody can spot you, nobody is going to hold the boards: you just can't train at some fitness oriented gym and compete with people who are around world-class lifters every workout.
Dave Tate Spotting a 500lb+ board press. All equipment shown available at
www.elitefts.com)
Right. Well, from past conversations with you I know you are familiar with the Westside program and techniques, but to sum it up, we workout four days per week: two of those days are maximum effort, and two are speed days. On speed days, we work with 60% of our maximal weights for ten sets of 3 and have minimal rest between sets. The point here is to train your muscles to fire faster. Then the other day you're being trained to push maximal weights in accessory work that directly correlates with the lift you are trying to improve. In other words, you are pushing very heavy weights that directly correlate to improving one of the three lifts you are seeking to improve. For us at Westside, this is the Bench, Squat, and Deadlift. Why train a lift if it doesn't help you?
AR - So basically the Westside system involves much more than just a particular bunch of exercises performed on a particular day?
DT - Of course. I always laugh when someone says they train ‘Westside' style. You don't train Westside style unless you train at Westside. I mean…just because you do box squats on Mondays, it doesn't mean you're doing a Westside squat routine!
AR - Yeah…I actually do box squats, but it's a ****ing mess at my gym…I'm running all over finding Steps and plates and shit to stack up to get the right height…then again, I've seen pics of Westside workouts and it looks like a swap meet blew in on box squat days! But then again, I shouldn't talk…the shit I stacked up to do box squats on looks like a game of “Jenga” that's almost over.
Ha ha…yeah it used to look like that at Westside…not anymore…at elitefts.com you can buy an adjustable box. We used to stack all kinds of shit up too…not anymore, though…I CAN'T BELIEVE we didn't have an adjustable box a decade ago. A lot of the things that are available through my site are like that, you know? Just like…shit that I wish I had when I was first getting into powerlifting.
( Adjustable Box- not the girl, the thing she's standing on)
(Available from
www.elitefts.com )
DT - Actually, no. You wanna know why I do this? Here it is:
Do you remember the first time you benched 400lbs?
AR - Of course, man…that was a ****ing great day! I was thinking about it for weeks, man…nobody in the gym forgot it, either…I wouldn't let them!
DT - Well, I'm sure you felt great, because you set that goal, and you achieved it. But the average guy will never bench 400lbs. He won't even bench 300lbs.
But if you remember how great you felt after you put up 400, that's why I am in this business. I want to produce products and help train people to get that feeling for themselves. You coach a sport, right?
AR - Yup. I coach and I still play…I'm only 28, you know!
DT - Ever win a championship?
AR - Yeah, man. I was captain of an undefeated team at University. This year the team I coach (a collegiate team) won the first division undefeated.
DT - Which felt better, winning, or helping a whole team achieve their goals?
AR - Yeah, I guess you're right…don't get me wrong, I felt great when I captained an undefeated team to a championship…but I it felt better when I coached an undefeated team to a championship.
DT - So yeah, that's exactly why I do it. I want every person who has the motivation to drag their asses into the gym to be able to set and reach goals. A dude with a family, work, commitments, his kid's soccer games, and all that other shit…probably won't be a 700lb bencher; but I can help him go pretty ****ing far. I mean…who wouldn't want to help people get that feeling you got winning titles, or benching 400lbs, or whatever.
AR - So how do you do it? I mean…what are some exercises that you consider indispensable?
DT - Well…shit, man…we live and die by certain movements. We all box squat, we all do a variation of the good morning, we all use chains and bands, and we all do reverse-hypers. Those are the bread and butter of our routines.
AR - I do reverse hypers off a swissball sometimes, for really high reps, and I use the bed of my truck and either chains or stretch bands for resistance…it's a great movement.
DT - But that's the thing, man…and I always say this: 20% of your exercises produce 80% of your results. That other shit that people do…is useful but isn't worth much, if you consider how much effort they put into doing them. My formula for most athletes is simple: find five movements that translate directly to movements you do on the field, and push your weights up with them. That's it. Just find five movements in the weight room that translate to movements on the field, and work on getting stronger at them. People want to make this shit too complicated, and they end up getting some athlete who is already awesome, and they just ****ing ruin the guy with absurd programs. Don't ruin your athletes! If you're a strength coach, don't ruin kids who are already all stars! I see that all the time
AR - Well…my training is 4x a week and really, I think I do about 5-6 movements per week…also, I coach a team, and actually have used your advice in training them.
DT - Well, don't forget the other 80% of movements though: you want to get the last 20% of results too. Just don't prioritize it; you prioritize it later in your career. Listen, when you lift, it's like me dropping a boulder on the body part you're training. That's representative of how much of your nervous system an experienced lifter like you can cause to fire. When a beginner lifts, it's like dropping a pail of marbles on them; nerves are firing all over, they don't know how to use the target groups they're trying to make stronger, shit's firing out of sequence, at the wrong time - it's a mess. You can't use the same routine for a beginner and an advanced lifter – for reasons like that and others, man…everyone needs to do the appropriate workout for their experience, strength, goals, etc…
AR - Actually, I use your ‘5 lifts' idea with the team I coach…although I tell the kids to train even less than 3 movements that relate to the position they play on the field. I'm not a strength coach, though.
DT - Bullshit. You work at a school, right? And you deal with athletic directors, and write out the weight training and conditioning program for an entire team, and more, right?
AR - Uhh…yeah…
DT - Then you're a coach. I don't care if you train a pro-bowl NFL'er, if you follow a dude around in a gym with a clipboard - you're a personal trainer, even if the guy you are following around is a great professional athlete. That may make you a great personal trainer, and maybe even a world-class one…but a strength coach, in my eyes has to answer to athletic directors, work with numerous, numerous athletes with different needs, handle all aspects of their strength and conditioning both during the season and off-season…
AR - Ok, ok…but ‘personal trainer' is kind of a fruity term…
DT - I know…they need a new title. Like…'personal strength coach' or something. I don't know, we'll leave it to them to make up a cool title. Until then, if you follow someone around with a clipboard and tell them what to lift, you're a personal trainer. Eric [Cressey] is a strength coach...he's good too. He doesn't follow dudes around with a clipboard yelling, “push it” or some shit…he walks the walk too. That kid trains with some strong dudes out in Conneticut.
AR - Yeah, man…I see that all the time in my world. I see ‘Gurus' who tell people about steroids, and write books on them, but don't even look like they've ever seen a weight, much less a steroid.
DT - Yeah, my bullshit-detector goes off when a guy who is barely a buck eighty starts telling people how to use steroids. Guys like that need to stick a needle in their ass, get under the bar, and move some ****ing weight, then come back and maybe I'll listen.
AR - I see that on the net all the time.
DT – Well, there's good message boards and bad ones. The way we have it set up at my website is that people can submit questions and our panel answers them (if they are legit questions), and posts the answers. We don't do 500 questions a week, but the answers are right on target 100% of the time, and we find it to be more productive that way. On your typical message board, you'll get a lot more answers, but you need to really be smart to know who to listen to. Some boards are good, and some are bad.
[cutting Dave off]
AR - I agree with half of that…I'd say 99.9%+ of all message boards are garbage.
DT - Right, well I think with your world -anabolic stuff- you'll see that more. I mean, in powerlifting, people go to a contest and either they win or they don't, or they put up a weight they claim they can, or they don't. They can bitch about the judges, and actually a surprising amount do; but if you didn't move the weight, nobody wants to hear it.
AR - Well…yeah, unfortunately, in my world – and I'm talking about online steroid boards- most people are just talking nonsense, saying “bro” a lot or using it like “MySpAASe” …you know…that “MySpace” thing? That's a site where people go online to meet little friends, socialize, hook up, flirt, etc…basically use it an online social outlet. That's what I think Internet steroid boards are for the most part, hence “MySpAASe” like “MySpace” but with AAS (Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids) in the middle.
DT - Yeah, yeah…I get it…that's actually kind of funny…I think. A lot of the people I see posting all day on the Internet would probably be better served if they used that time to get their asses to the gym. It's funny, though, I guess.
AR - Or sad...
DT - Right. There's something to be said for banging girls on steroids though…*ahem* I've heard…
[At this point Dave and I get dessert…some kind of soft cookie slathered in ice cream and various syrups]
DT - So is this your typical diet? A sandwich, cookies, ice-cream and beer?
AR - In fairness, Dave, I did have a salad at the beginning of the meal, remember? It was slathered in Bleu Cheese dressing.
DT - Yeah, I know, you look to be pretty low in body fat. Actually, that's why I ask…you're lean enough that I assume you don't eat this regularly.
AR - Actually, I do, but do you? I mean…what's your diet look like?
DT - It's horrible. You ever see “ Supersize ME ”? Well that's pretty much how I eat. The problem is that he didn't stay on that diet for long enough to normalize his body. See, I've been eating like that for years, and my body is used to it by now. I tried eating a bodybuilder-type diet - my stomach was all ****ed up. I called John [Berardi] on the phone and asked him what to do. He told me to eat some cheeseburgers and the shit I normally eat. I was fine within a day. Now, I try to eat as much of the good stuff as I can take, but mostly my diet is junk. I guess, as I get older, I'm eating more greens and stuff like that…I mean…hell, it's just less work for me - I used to have to take all that shit off my burgers! Now I leave it on!
AR - Err…I don't know if that counts…the lettuce and tomato that you get when you buy a burger at a fast food joint probably isn't a ‘serving' of leafy greens.
DT - It is when you add up all the lettuce and tomatoes you find on four or five burgers.
AR - Point taken. Lets move on…what's the most important thing an athlete can do, training wise?
DT - Whatever they are worst at. In the weight room, if your worst lift is your bench, then you need to work on getting your numbers up in that lift. You do that with floor presses, JM Presses, Bands, Chains, whatever…just get that number up. The most important exercise is your weakest one, whatever that is. The problem is that people know how to train, then they get a degree in exercise physiology, or Anatomy & Physiology, and then they know all the science involved and …I mean…I got a degree in a related area, and graduated with a 3.7, so I'm not discounting education- but these people, they learn so much; and then I think it just goes to shit.
They learn, and they learn…and they are in the gym, and breaking their asses, and getting big and strong, and then something happens. They just…become ridiculous…obnoxious…totally lose sight of how to train. Finally, they discover that the simple shit they were doing in the beginning is what works…then they become one of the greats in their field. The truly great ones all go through that. They eventually come back to what works, but they're that much wiser for going on the journey which led them back to square one. You see that with everything. They great ones all go full circle.
AR - I'm not totally sure I get you…I mean…uhh…
DT - Look…then let me ask you a question: what do you do personally, in terms of steroids and training?
AR - A bunch of testosterone, maybe one other anabolic…uhh…and like I said, I do about six basic movements per week. Other than that, I make little adjustments, here and there to my steroid intake and my routine…but I really stick with the basics for both.
DT - Then you've come full circle. You're back at square one, like I said…you just didn't know it.
AR - Thanks Dave. I think this interview has come full circle too, since we're back at where we started…talking about the basics.
Thanks for your time.
[Authors Note: All of the training aids discussed in this interview can be found at www.elitefts.com]
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