tribulus with cycle?

[Shawny]

i have heard from different people to take tribulus with my cycle, and from others to take only after my cycle to get levels back to normal and keep some gains...what should i do?

[james21]

IMO Its useless to use while using test. I did however like it with weak compounds like var.

[Shawny]

so taking it just with winni would be good than?

[SMAN12b]

so taking it just with winni would be good than?

not really since winny will shut down your natural test.

Tribulis is best used after a cycle to help boost natural test along with other PCT compounds

[Titleist]

Taking Tribulus during a cycle is just a waste of money. After you get done with your cycle, you can. I also wouldn't recommend taking a winny only cycle.

[Shawny]

would you take pct for just a winni only cycle?

[SMAN12b]

would you take pct for just a winni only cycle?

Ummmm YES....have you researched anything here????

Do you like your nuts shrunk and no erection??

Please know what you are putting into your body before you screw your HPTA up for life......

a little research goes a long way

[Titleist]

Ummmm YES....have you researched anything here????

Do you like your nuts shrunk and no erection??

Please know what you are putting into your body before you screw your HPTA up for life......

a little research goes a long way

Nuff said.

[Shawny]

i realize some test would be good, is this what your recommending?

[Titleist]

1st off we are recommending you research what you are doing. 2nd, yes Test is what we're recommending. Is this your 1st cycle? What are your stats: Age weight height body fat% years training diet?

[BigJames]

I am not going to comment on the stuff that can be found using the search feature, but I will put in my 2 cents on the Trib. I like to start some trib with about 3 weeks remaining in the cycle. I have found that it starts bringing the boys back up to size. I continue it right through PCT at 3grams a day. I had success with this, but it is different for everyone. I have read that the less SHBG you have the more effective supplements like Tribulus become (and I have naturally low SHBG levels).

[Manpretty]

Ummmm YES....have you researched anything here????

Do you like your nuts shrunk and no erection??

Please know what you are putting into your body before you screw your HPTA up for life......

a little research goes a long way

how would you screw up your hpta for LIFE sman?

[Schmidty]

Ummmm YES....have you researched anything here????

Do you like your nuts shrunk and no erection??

Please know what you are putting into your body before you screw your HPTA up for life......

a little research goes a long way

[Jacky_Zebsten]

poor guy. as he wanted was advice.

awesome forum ettiquette

[Manpretty]

not to mention sman is full of it.......im still waiting to hear how hpta is f'd for life off a winny only cycle, i bet if you were to add test your hpta would be fine right sman???LOL

"educate before you medicate" right sman ......why is that sooo ironic?

[pavlenko]

winny shuts down natural test production which equals to no test flowin at all during the cycle which there fore could lead to permanent damage or could not but who would want to play with something like that? just add alil test and ull b good nukka

[randy6969]

Incorporating it with your pct would be a brighter idea then using it while on cycle. You could add it with some NOlva, Aromasin maybe?

[Manpretty]

^^^is that true?
how is your hpta kept going with the addition of test???
you boys will still be shutdown and hypothalamus/pituitary gland are still affected. so again how is hpta not going to be shutdown/affected with the addition of test?

[randy6969]

^^^is that true?
how is your hpta kept going with the addition of test???
you boys will still be shutdown and hypothalamus/pituitary gland are still affected. so again how is hpta not going to be shutdown/affected with the addition of test?

it is affected...... i think you justget to keep you libido thats the main benefit.

[Titleist]

it is affected...... i think you justget to keep you libido thats the main benefit.

Exactly. That is what SMAN was saying as well. If you're going to run Winny you should run Test along side it to keep your winky working.

[shrpskn]

Trib is useless while running a cycle as it is just a herbal supplement that has been shown to help increase endogenous test production...if you're on a cycle an such production is halted, why waste your money?

Save it for PCT and/or post-PCT where it may have a positive influence on down-trodden endogenous test production.

Good luck,

[vicious cycle]

would you take pct for just a winni only cycle?

Ummmm YES....have you researched anything here????

Do you like your nuts shrunk and no erection??

Please know what you are putting into your body before you screw your HPTA up for life......

a little research goes a long way

It sure does. Considering you are wrong. There would be no need for PCT on a winny only cycle. Only if it was stacked would there be a need.

There is rarely an occasion to use winny on it's own however.

[Manpretty]

It sure does. Considering you are wrong. There would be no need for PCT on a winny only cycle. Only if it was stacked would there be a need.

There is rarely an occasion to use winny on it's own however.

actually yuou are wrong pct is required
like sman said your hpta could be shutdown and thus pct is required

what sman is wrong about is the fact that hpta will not be messed up for life it in time will come back to where it was orginally

[vicious cycle]

actually yuou are wrong pct is required
like sman said your hpta could be shutdown and thus pct is required

what sman is wrong about is the fact that hpta will not be messed up for life it in time will come back to where it was orginally

A popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid and Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects.

There is no real use for Clomid or Nolva post-cycle for Winny specifically since there is no post-cycle aromatisation to cause negative feedback. That makes whatever gains you made on Winny quite easy to maintain.

But, you believe what you like. I suppose it wouldn't hurt; but needed? Hardly.

[Manpretty]

A popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid and Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects.

There is no real use for Clomid or Nolva post-cycle for Winny specifically since there is no post-cycle aromatisation to cause negative feedback. That makes whatever gains you made on Winny quite easy to maintain.

But, you believe what you like. I suppose it wouldn't hurt; but needed? Hardly.

i see your point and raise you -------> pct helps bring your natural test levels back nova @at 20mged is said to raise natural test be 150% over 2weeks.... so yes there is a use for pct

[vicious cycle]

i see your point and raise you -------> pct helps bring your natural test levels back nova @at 20mged is said to raise natural test be 150% over 2weeks.... so yes there is a use for pct

You're funny. I like you.

I will agree that the need for PCT with a short term winny cycle is very arguable and the debate rages on. I, however, am on the side that believes because HPTA toxicity is so low that traditional PCT such as nolva and clomid are not needed. Indeed, adding such things (like said that raise natural test to 150%) may further tip a chemical seesaw in your body that wasn't that out of balance to begin with.

[Manpretty]

bump for sman

[gixxerboy1]

bump for sman

you wont get a response.

But i would like to see one

[Dog-Slime]

bump for sman

I think he was referring to not running a pct messing the guy up for life, not that adding test would help it. Just because winny doesn't cause a build up of estrogen does not mean that it doesn't require a pct. Anything that shuts you down requires a pct. Epistane is supposed to greatly reduce gyno and compete for the breast receptors just like nolva but it is still is adviced to run a proper pct after a cycle of it. Why would this be any different for winny?

[gixxerboy1]

I think he was referring to not running a pct messing the guy up for life, not that adding test would help it. Just because winny doesn't cause a build up of estrogen does not mean that it doesn't require a pct. Anything that shuts you down requires a pct. Epistane is supposed to greatly reduce gyno and compete for the breast receptors just like nolva but it is still is adviced to run a proper pct after a cycle of it. Why would this be any different for winny?

You may be correct in what sman meant. But exaggerating that it will screw him up for life takes away any legitimacy of what he says.

[Dog-Slime]

I dont think it is an exaggeration. If his test levels never returned to normal from not running a pct then I think he would be screwed up for life. Ever heard of testosterone replacement therapy?

[Swifto]

If you look at what happens when you take Winstrol, you can see a form of PCT is needed.

Whenever the bodies own endogenous testosterone supply is inhbited or shutdown, PCT is needed. If it only inhibited, surely aiding it in getting back to baseline or better isnt going to hurt? Right?

Taking Winstrol at a high enough dose or long enough, will cause total HPTA shutdown (hypogonadism). This obviously varies form person to person, but when too many androgen receptors become actviated in the Hypothalamus, shutdown of GnRH occurs.

You take Winstrol (alone) and you endogenous testosterone production is inhibited, but estrogen stays the same as Winstrol doesnt aromotase. Estrogen will eventually drop, as you natural testosterone supply has declined. But, why not take a SERM or better AI and lower it faster, changing the estrogen:testosterone ratio in the body. When the body senses estrogen is too low, it prodcues more testosterone.

When a compound is used that doesent aromotase (alone) for cycling, perhaps a PCT med/compound that raises serum T by not changing the estro:test ratio could be used. MyoGenX....?

[gixxerboy1]

I dont think it is an exaggeration. If his test levels never returned to normal from not running a pct then I think he would be screwed up for life. Ever heard of testosterone replacement therapy?

yes i have heard of trt. Also its a 17aa so it could cause liver damage and its possible he could need a transplant from the irreputable damage of winny. There is about as much chance of that happening as needed trt for life from a winny only cycle.

If all these scar tactics bs that some of the mods spew were true more then 1% of the time. My friends and i would need new: kidneys and liver. Also be on trt. Never see a gain from our cycle because we drink and probably have erectile dysfunctions. Also i'd have multiple std's

Educating is great. Spouting out horrible side effects is bs.

[hugovsilva]

A popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid and Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects.

There is no real use for Clomid or Nolva post-cycle for Winny specifically since there is no post-cycle aromatisation to cause negative feedback. That makes whatever gains you made on Winny quite easy to maintain.

But, you believe what you like. I suppose it wouldn't hurt; but needed? Hardly.

You do know that estrogen negative feedback is not the only culprit in HPTA shutdown. Androgens have the same negative feedback through another pathway. So basically, any cycle needs pct as you will be supressed or shutdown by any AAS at the dosages needed for growth.

[vicious cycle]

You may be correct in what sman meant. But exaggerating that it will screw him up for life takes away any legitimacy of what he says.

Exactly. It just seemed a bit over the top.

I dont think it is an exaggeration. If his test levels never returned to normal from not running a pct then I think he would be screwed up for life. Ever heard of testosterone replacement therapy?

If you believe HRT for life would be need because of small short term winny only cycle then you probably believe the Governments food pyramid chart is a great way to eat.

Whenever the bodies own endogenous testosterone supply is inhbited or shutdown, PCT is needed. If it only inhibited, surely aiding it in getting back to baseline or better isnt going to hurt? Right?

I did partly say this...would pct hurt, probably not. Needed...I still don't think so.

Taking Winstrol at a high enough dose or long enough, will cause total HPTA shutdown (hypogonadism). This obviously varies form person to person, but when too many androgen receptors become actviated in the Hypothalamus, shutdown of GnRH occurs.

Couldn't agree more! And that is where the debate begins. What is "high enough doses for long enough? I agree that 150-200mg/ED for 10-12 weeks (even with liver protectors) and you are going need some sort of PCT. 50mg/ED for 6 weeks followed by 4 weeks off? Hardly the same thing.

You take Winstrol (alone) and you endogenous testosterone production is inhibited, but estrogen stays the same as Winstrol doesnt aromotase. Estrogen will eventually drop, as you natural testosterone supply has declined. But, why not take a SERM or better AI and lower it faster, changing the estrogen:testosterone ratio in the body. When the body senses estrogen is too low, it prodcues more testosterone.

Production may be inhibited but not to the point where nolva and clomid would be options.

You guys act like 50mg/ED of winny would have the same shutdown effects as 50mg/ED of Tren.

Like I said, an argument could be made either way I guess.

To the original poster I apologize as we have seemed to totally hijacked your thread.

To answer your question, "i have heard from different people to take tribulus with my cycle, and from others to take only after my cycle to get levels back to normal and keep some gains...what should i do?"

IMHO, Trib is crap under any circumstance. If your reasoning for using tribulus is that you are worried about atrophy and other AAS related sides, then just go with a usual PCT program. As far as "what should I do", I think MrGetBig13 said it best. You should educate yourself a whole lot more.

Best of Luck
-VC-

[vicious cycle]

You do know that estrogen negative feedback is not the only culprit in HPTA shutdown. Androgens have the same negative feedback through another pathway. So basically, any cycle needs pct as you will be supressed or shutdown by any AAS at the dosages needed for growth.

If you want to believe that all AAS are made equal and that all AAS have the same side effects to the same degree as one another, that is your business I suppose. Because that is what you are saying here.

I swear some stuff is like folk lore. Worse than listening to the big guy in the gym. Parrot and repeat, parrot and repeat.

[Swifto]

In an ideal world, one would run Winstorl and get BW done near the end of the cycle. Then you'de know if PCT is needed and how agressive a protocol.

[hugovsilva]

If you want to believe that all AAS are made equal and that all AAS have the same side effects to the same degree as one another, that is your business I suppose. Because that is what you are saying here.

I swear some stuff is like folk lore. Worse than listening to the big guy in the gym. Parrot and repeat, parrot and repeat.

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that all AAS have the capacity to supress or shut you down to a different extent through the estrogen or androgen pathway. If you want to believe I think they all do it the same way that's your problem.
Of course if you use winny at 5mg eod, or test at 50mg/week you will not get supressed, but if you run it at a dosage that is enough to make you grow you will most likely be at least supressed.

But like said before, BW would take away all doubts.

[SMAN12b]

actually yuou are wrong pct is required
like sman said your hpta could be shutdown and thus pct is required

what sman is wrong about is the fact that hpta will not be messed up for life it in time will come back to where it was orginally

I stated he is "RISKING" screwing up his HPTA by not doing it correctly!
Not everyone reacts the same to all AAS
Some will get a limp dick from Deca, some won't, but the fact is Deca is a very suppressive compound

The same holds true for winny, some people will have problems running it by itself some won't

The point of ALL my advice pretty boy is to err on the side of SAFETY since most of my advice is to NEWBIES that have NO idea what they are getting into. I would much rather get them to play it safe if they are gonna play at all.

Not necessarily the way I do things personally, but I have a few more years under my belt then they do.
Again, if you don't like my advice, don't read it!!!

[Manpretty]

Ummmm YES....have you researched anything here????

Do you like your nuts shrunk and no erection??

Please know what you are putting into your body before you screw your HPTA up for life......

a little research goes a long way

look sman for the most part your advice was on point.

what i dont like about it tho is the fact you said hpta will be screwed for life it just simply not true, its over the top is what it is.

also you came accross like kingshit being what looked to me like and azzhole with wrong information. personally i dont like that cause you tend to do that to alot of "newbies" it doesnt help. they want info and you make them feel this big <->. you are suppose to be a person people can turn to being a mod and all.

anyway ill leave it at that before i get another threat about getting kicked off if im not being respectful which is ironic because you are not my friend.