Dbol and Win or Anavar?

[ShadetreeJones]

I'm 33, never used anything other than creatine and ephedrine. At 6' 195 I've been lifting for 15 years. Good not great vascularity, very good strength, diet can be as clean as it needs to be though I do like beer . Main goal is getting super lean and putting on 10-15 lbs of muscle.

I could get to 185 lbs. naturally with just regular diet and exercise and have a very good size/strength ratio but it would take 2 months.

Diet can be as clean as needs to be, just want to put on 10-15 lbs. of lean muscle and avoid ANY side effects like hair loss, tits, loss of sex drive, anything.

Question 1: First off, thank you to anyone who takes time to respond to this thread. Winny or anavar with Dbol and why? Lean is more important and please pardon my ignorance.

Question 2: If time is not important, just permanent lean muscle growth, what is the mildest and safest way to go and how long could someone cycle something like a deca/ephedrine or clen stack?

Question 3: The PCT: Is a PCT always advised? Any negative side effects to using a PCT if there is no need? Which gear doesn't require a PCT?

Thanks in advance and i appreciate any input.

[shrpskn]

Welcome to AR...stick around and do some digging...most your answers are already here or been answered already.

Sounds like research would be the best prescribed advice for you at this point.

Good luck,

[gotjuice28]

I would go with Var its not as bad on joints as winny. I would take the Dbol out and add test E. And if you really wanted to have a good cycle add deca in there. That way you have a test, nor, and dht groups in your cycle. Pct is very important and would be requierd for you. Have fun and good luck.

[ShadetreeJones]

I would go with Var its not as bad on joints as winny. I would take the Dbol out and add test E. And if you really wanted to have a good cycle add deca in there. That way you have a test, nor, and dht groups in your cycle. Pct is very important and would be requierd for you. Have fun and good luck.

Why test e instead of test c or dbol? Do you basically recommend test for any cycle? If I would do a test e/deca/anavar cycle what would you use as your PCT?

Again I appreciate the time taken to respond to my questions.

[MartyMcFly]

If I were you man I would diet down to 180. Two months is not a long time. I f your diet was right you could do that in 6 weeks easily. Then I would look into doing a cycle if that is what you want. AAS do not cut you diet does. I think if you did a dbol and var or winny cycle you would not be happy; it will not get you to your goals. Diet first and then do a test cycle. And no muscle gain is ever permanent but PCT will help you retain what you have worked hard for.

To sum up: Work hard to diet and then work hard to put on LBM.

[MartyMcFly]

Also if you MUST drink beer. I definitely do not recommend doing any orals. Also if you cut out beer you would lose a good amount of weight as it is just empty calories.

[ShadetreeJones]

If I were you man I would diet down to 180. Two months is not a long time. I f your diet was right you could do that in 6 weeks easily. Then I would look into doing a cycle if that is what you want. AAS do not cut you diet does. I think if you did a dbol and var or winny cycle you would not be happy; it will not get you to your goals. Diet first and then do a test cycle. And no muscle gain is ever permanent but PCT will help you retain what you have worked hard for.

To sum up: Work hard to diet and then work hard to put on LBM.

Hey man, I really appreciate the advice. I guess what I'm asking is what cycle would be best for a guy like me who has good genetics and good work ethic and doesn't want to take any unecessary risks. I just feel like I have maximized what I can do naturally and cycling even a mild stack would make tweaking the diet easier even if the gains are minimal and not immediate.

Ideally, I like to suck down to 185 and then get back up to 195-200 with help but don't want to wait 2 months to start up.

[gotjuice28]

And no muscle gain is ever permanent but PCT will help you retain what you have worked hard for.

Bad advice MartyMcFly muscle gain is permanent if you cycle right. Dont give dumbass advice.

[MartyMcFly]

Bad advice MartyMcFly muscle gain is permanent if you cycle right. Dont give dumbass advice.

Dumbass advice? So if I "cycled right" I would permanently keep all of my gains? Please tell me how. I am cutting right now without the aid of AAS and I am losing muscle due to calorie deficiency. And if muscle is permanant like you say why is it going away? Why isn't Schwarzenegger still as big as he was in his hayday? Did he cycle wrong? I want you to tell me how you make PERMANENT muscle gains. If you do not work your ass off and have a good diet they WILL go away. Doesn't sound like permanent to me.

[jerseyboy]

Excuse me?! Marty is right on. No muscle gain is permanent. Anyone can tell you that gains can and will be lost if you cease to train and diet right. Maybe you should keep your "dumbass" comments to yourself.

[Outta Kontrol]

uh oh... cat fight

[jerseyboy]

Dumbass advice? So if I "cycled right" I would permanently keep all of my gains? Please tell me how. I am cutting right now without the aid of AAS and I am losing muscle due to calorie deficiency. And if muscle is permanant like you say why is it going away? Why isn't Schwarzenegger still as big as he was in his hayday? Did he cycle wrong? I want you to tell me how you make PERMANENT muscle gains. If you do not work your ass off and have a good diet they WILL go away. Doesn't sound like permanent to me.

Your talking about catabolism. Strenuous training causes more cortisol to be released which in turn breaks down muscle tissue.

[gotjuice28]

yes wrong advice, you cant read english. Saying that you can not keep your gains is wrong. As long as you keep up your diet and workout you can keep it. Schwarzenegger is not as big because he dosent workout and doesnt have a diet.

[gotjuice28]

jerseyboy maybe you should just stop talking no one cares what you have to say.

[Information]

jerseyboy maybe you should just stop talking no one cares what you have to say.

Banned member.

lightspeed7
gotjuice28

[jerseyboy]

jerseyboy maybe you should just stop talking no one cares what you have to say.

Hmmm, seems like someone cares about what I have to say. Have a nice vacation.

[eljugo16]

when it comes down to it bro just do your research here. type in the search column winny, dbol, ect... read their profiles and im sure you will have a lot if not all the answers your looking for.

[MartyMcFly]

Hmmm, seems like someone cares about what I have to say. Have a nice vacation.

This vacation will be PERMANENT!

[s0up]

If you arent looking for side effects i'd go with var.. but then again, var won't give you 10-15 lbs unless you take loads of it and EAT .. and yes on any steroid.. if you do enough to get good results you will want to do PCT because regardless of what people say about whether you need it or not, your levels will still be surpressed. Even on var, you will have your HPTA surpressed.

Lean muscle would be great with winny, but hair loss and stuff will be a problem from DHT..

If you want a nice hard look though without any gnarly side effects, do some var & clen.. that will cut you up!

As for everything else, i have no first hand experience, i just read all day.. do research first, and then make sure you do things the safest way possible. Start at medium doses, move up to fit your individual needs.

Hope this helps.

[AandF6969]

You should decide if muscle gain or fat loss is your priority.. its much more efficient to chase one goal at a time, rather than trying to do both at once. Your diet suited toward one goal will work much better.

You could arrange your diet in order for lean muscle gain, and with a few days of cardio/week definately possible to lose some fat, especially with anavar.

[shrpskn]

Banned member.

lightspeed7
gotjuice28

Thank goodness....this guy was a thorn in my ass a few days ago....

Good riddance.