Is TEST the same as DECA in this regard?

[ironaddict69]

"You’ll also note that higher blood plasma levels of Nandrolone are found with Gluteal injections as opposed to Deltoid injections (this is true for all oil-based steroids, I suspect)." -Anthony Roberts.
Look at this graph. youll notice that the 4 ml glute injects didnt go as high up as the 1 ml glute injects for somereason, he also stated that he thinks all oil based steroids are higher absorbed in the glutes than the delts. do any of you agree? if so im shooting into my glutes every time.

[GonnaBeHuge]

Hmmm, that's really interesting. I didn't think it made a difference where you shot, but maybe I should switch to glute injections only too!!

Anyone else know about this for sure?

[Property of Steroid.com]

You know what's even more interesting? I wasn't the first person to point out the Minto Studies (although I'm usually given credit for it)! But yea...it'll work for Test too...

[ironaddict69]

You know what's even more interesting? I wasn't the first person to point out the Minto Studies (although I'm usually given credit for it)! But yea...it'll work for Test too...

Anthony! thanks for posting man. so wow ur serious? id get more out of my 400 mg a week HRT if i shot into my ass cheeks? can you explain HOW the levels go up more? or is it as simple as blood flow. i just think (which is worth nothing compared to what you know) that alot of blood goes to the delts too, making levels the same, which is my favorite placeto shoot. if shooting 400 mg a week put me somewhere around the 2500 range for test, could you ballpark how much farther itd go up if i did glutes?

[Property of Steroid.com]

Could be bloodflow...I don't know...I'd really be speculating just as much as you if I took a stab at it.

[kfrost06]

That was a great study by Charles Minto that pointed out many facts but in reference to the graph in the first thread it shows that 1.)Volume has a direct effect on absorption(maybe why many scream NEVER use more than 3ccs) and one would get more out of there gear by using higher concentrations and 2.)Site injection does matter!

Why site injection matters is, from what I can determine still in the theory stage but the theory is because of differences in tissue composition and blood flow when the vehicle is oil based. The oil tends to distribute along intermuscular fascial planes where the delts have less fat and the gluts have much more. Also the delts have higher blow flow rates which effects the rate of absorption.

[Property of Steroid.com]

That was a great study by Charles Minto that pointed out many facts but in reference to the graph in the first thread it shows that 1.)Volume has a direct effect on absorption(maybe why many scream NEVER use more than 3ccs) and one would get more out of there gear by using higher concentrations and 2.)Site injection does matter!

Why site injection matters is, from what I can determine still in the theory stage but the theory is because of differences in tissue composition and blood flow when the vehicle is oil based. The oil tends to distribute along intermuscular fascial planes where the delts have less fat and the gluts have much more. Also the delts have higher blow flow rates which effects the rate of absorption.

But is it volume or concentration? It could be either...

[kfrost06]

In the graph in the first thread the actual caption reads as follows...

"Time course of plasma nandrolone concentrations in 23 healthy men over 32 days after i.m. injection of 100 mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle into the gluteal muscle (group 1) () or injection of 100 mg of nandrolone decanoate into the gluteal muscle in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 2) (), into the gluteal muscle in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 3) () or into the deltoid muscle in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 4) (). Results are expressed as mean and S.E.M., unless the S.E. is smaller than symbol."


The same amount of drug(100mg of nandrolone decanoate) was used in the same vehicle on three population sets, a fourth group recieved 100mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate for the purpose of see side chain ester effects on absorption and bioavaliablility. So though it was 4ml it was still 100mg and the 1mL also contained 100mg, very interesting isn't it.

I think that was your question but I could be wrong.

[Property of Steroid.com]

What I'm saying is what if they did 1ml of 50mgs in one spot, and 2 shots of 25mls in that same muscle bilaterally (all at once)....

That would tell the difference between volume and concentration...

[kfrost06]

Ahh, I think I know what your saying. Correct me if I am wrong. You would like to know what 1 mL containing 50mg vs breaking the shot up into two 0.5ml containing 25mg each would influence the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. I also assume when you say bilaterally you want one in each glut(or each delt) injected at same time. I would assume that it would be a faster absorption because of the smaller volume but the graph we are discussing differs from that opion...Arrggh I am at a lost and now my head hurts, let me read more and get back to you.

[kfrost06]

Sorry, I had too many things going on at once. I see what your saying, that would be an interesting study but in this study "Effects of Ester, Injection Site and Injection Volume" they only did different concentration(25mg/mL vs. 100mg/mL) to base there differences in volumes arguement rather than equal concentrations with different volumes which would seem like a better test for determining effects of volume on bioavailability of said compound. AGREED!

[ironaddict69]

so...glutes are better. its in stone?

[ironaddict69]

bump

[kfrost06]

From the results of that study it shows clearly that for deca and I image with all oil based compounds that gluts are much better than delts. I do not believe this would apply to water based compounds like test sus and winny.

[Schmidty]

Thats fvcking crazy

[ironaddict69]

From the results of that study it shows clearly that for deca and I image with all oil based compounds that gluts are much better than delts. I do not believe this would apply to water based compounds like test sus and winny.

looks like im shooting in the ass tomorrow...shit i havent done this in a LONG time

[taiboxa]

all i know is im never doing calfs... thats shitty bloodflow area lol

[gigem]

the ass it is thanks anthony on clarifying that

[ironaddict69]

yeah thanks anthony!! but wait, any idea on how the absorbtion rate in the quads are? theyre almost as big as the ass.

[ironaddict69]

That was a great study by Charles Minto that pointed out many facts but in reference to the graph in the first thread it shows that 1.)Volume has a direct effect on absorption(maybe why many scream NEVER use more than 3ccs) and one would get more out of there gear by using higher concentrations and 2.)Site injection does matter!

Why site injection matters is, from what I can determine still in the theory stage but the theory is because of differences in tissue composition and blood flow when the vehicle is oil based. The oil tends to distribute along intermuscular fascial planes where the delts have less fat and the gluts have much more. Also the delts have higher blow flow rates which effects the rate of absorption.

if the delts have higher blood flow rates wouldnt it be better than glutes? and whats the intermuscular fascial plane?

[kfrost06]

Fascia is the connective tissue that lines the muscles giving them support and protection. All your muscle are covered by a fascia, if you were to cut the fascia the muscle would "pop out" and loose it's form but still be connected. Intermuscular fascial planes would be the whole group of muscles which are all seperately covered by fascia. To visualize, just image a person as a muscle, his skin is the fascia and you squeeze hundreds of people together, in between the skins of the people would be the intermuscular fascia planes. Fascial planes are generally thick and tough and often have a 'grain' to them (this 'grain' in the investing layer is known to surgeons and called 'Langer's Lines'). They probably do not change readily with pressure since they are as much a part of the systemic integrity of the body as bones are. This is where the oil goes when you inject (unless you use a small needle or do not push the needle in deep enough but that's off topic). Back to the visualization, if all those people are packed together and a liquid is introduced to the system it will spread out between the skins of the people(the interfascial plane).

If the delts have higher blood flow rates wouldn't it be better then the glute?

YES! however blood flow is only one factor, the main factor, or rate limiting factor is the retention of the steroid esters from the oil vehicle depot due to oil/water partitioning, with gradual release into the extracellular fluid, where the attached esters(Decanoate, enanthate, etc.) are hydrolyzed to liberate the steroid. So after this happens then the circulation (blood flow) of the steroid to the rest of the body would be important.

That is why I do not think this applies to water based gear wher there would be no oil/water partitioning.

[lex57]

the ass it is thanks anthony on clarifying that

i hope this quote doesnt get taken out of context

[jaysunderstudy]

yeah I do most of my shots in the glutes, its more comfortable for me there plus I have less worry about hitting a nerve and the needle goes in easier plus u have a lot more muscle in ur glutes and in ur shoulders.

[Dude-Man]

I'm going to have to take a close look at this study.

[ironaddict69]

dont forget to thank kfrost06, he contributed ALOT as well with very intelligent posts. thanks man, for the PM too.

[ironaddict69]

edited: the dreaded double post