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Thread: MIT Scientist: 'Alarm over climate change is based on ignorance......

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    MIT Scientist: 'Alarm over climate change is based on ignorance......

    MIT Scientist: 'Alarm over climate change is based on ignorance of what is normal for weather and climate'...
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/

    April 16, 2007 issue -
    Judging from the media in recent months, the debate over global warming is now over. There has been a net warming of the earth over the last century and a half, and our greenhouse gas emissions are contributing at some level. Both of these statements are almost certainly true. What of it? Recently many people have said that the earth is facing a crisis requiring urgent action. This statement has nothing to do with science. There is no compelling evidence that the warming trend we've seen will amount to anything close to catastrophe. What most commentators—and many scientists—seem to miss is that the only thing we can say with certainly about climate is that it changes. The earth is always warming or cooling by as much as a few tenths of a degree a year; periods of constant average temperatures are rare. Looking back on the earth's climate history, it's apparent that there's no such thing as an optimal temperature—a climate at which everything is just right. The current alarm rests on the false assumption not only that we live in a perfect world, temperaturewise, but also that our warming forecasts for the year 2040 are somehow more reliable than the weatherman's forecast for next week.

    A warmer climate could prove to be more beneficial than the one we have now. Much of the alarm over climate change is based on ignorance of what is normal for weather and climate. There is no evidence, for instance, that extreme weather events are increasing in any systematic way, according to scientists at the U.S. National Hurricane Center, the World Meteorological Organization and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (which released the second part of this year's report earlier this month). Indeed, meteorological theory holds that, outside the tropics, weather in a warming world should be less variable, which might be a good thing.

    In many other respects, the ill effects of warming are overblown. Sea levels, for example, have been increasing since the end of the last ice age. When you look at recent centuries in perspective, ignoring short-term fluctuations, the rate of sea-level rise has been relatively uniform (less than a couple of millimeters a year). There's even some evidence that the rate was higher in the first half of the twentieth century than in the second half. Overall, the risk of sea-level rise from global warming is less at almost any given location than that from other causes, such as tectonic motions of the earth's surface.

    Many of the most alarming studies rely on long-range predictions using inherently untrustworthy climate models, similar to those that cannot accurately forecast the weather a week from now. Interpretations of these studies rarely consider that the impact of carbon on temperature goes down—not up—the more carbon accumulates in the atmosphere. Even if emissions were the sole cause of the recent temperature rise—a dubious proposition—future increases wouldn't be as steep as the climb in emissions.

    Indeed, one overlooked mystery is why temperatures are not already higher. Various models predict that a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere will raise the world's average temperature by as little as 1.5 degrees Celsius or as much as 4.5 degrees. The important thing about doubled CO2 (or any other greenhouse gas) is its "forcing"—its contribution to warming. At present, the greenhouse forcing is already about three-quarters of what one would get from a doubling of CO2. But average temperatures rose only about 0.6 degrees since the beginning of the industrial era, and the change hasn't been uniform—warming has largely occurred during the periods from 1919 to 1940 and from 1976 to 1998, with cooling in between. Researchers have been unable to explain this discrepancy.

    Modelers claim to have simulated the warming and cooling that occurred before 1976 by choosing among various guesses as to what effect poorly observed volcanoes and unmeasured output from the sun have had. These factors, they claim, don't explain the warming of about 0.4 degrees C between 1976 and 1998. Climate modelers assume the cause must be greenhouse-gas emissions because they have no other explanation. This is a poor substitute for evidence, and simulation hardly constitutes explanation. Ten years ago climate modelers also couldn't account for the warming that occurred from about 1050 to 1300. They tried to expunge the medieval warm period from the observational record—an effort that is now generally discredited. The models have also severely underestimated short-term variability El Niño and the Intraseasonal Oscillation. Such phenomena illustrate the ability of the complex and turbulent climate system to vary significantly with no external cause whatever, and to do so over many years, even centuries.

    Is there any point in pretending that CO2 increases will be catastrophic? Or could they be modest and on balance beneficial? India has warmed during the second half of the 20th century, and agricultural output has increased greatly. Infectious diseases like malaria are a matter not so much of temperature as poverty and public-health policies (like eliminating DDT). Exposure to cold is generally found to be both more dangerous and less comfortable.

    Moreover, actions taken thus far to reduce emissions have already had negative consequences without improving our ability to adapt to climate change. An emphasis on ethanol, for instance, has led to angry protests against corn-price increases in Mexico, and forest clearing and habitat destruction in Southeast Asia. Carbon caps are likely to lead to increased prices, as well as corruption associated with permit trading. (Enron was a leading lobbyist for Kyoto because it had hoped to capitalize on emissions trading.) The alleged solutions have more potential for catastrophe than the putative problem. The conclusion of the late climate scientist Roger Revelle—Al Gore's supposed mentor—is worth pondering: the evidence for global warming thus far doesn't warrant any action unless it is justifiable on grounds that have nothing to do with climate.

    Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His research has always been funded exclusively by the U.S. government. He receives no funding from any energy companies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    [B]
    Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His research has always been funded exclusively by the U.S. government. He receives no funding from any energy companies.

    Well, the way the Bush Administration has been editing scientific findings over the past 6 years, because they want research that makes them happy, he's probably writing this little tid-bit so he can keep all that federal grant money rolling in.
    If he produced some research that agreed with Al Gore, don't ya know that the Bush Administration would shut his operation down in a hurry?

    Huh . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Well, the way the Bush Administration has been editing scientific findings over the past 6 years, because they want research that makes them happy, he's probably writing this little tid-bit so he can keep all that federal grant money rolling in.
    If he produced some research that agreed with Al Gore, don't ya know that the Bush Administration would shut his operation down in a hurry?

    Huh . . .
    Did you not watch the State of the Union? News flash: Bush agrees with the global warming theory. About as funny as how you have avoided my post on the Iraq oil contracts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    . . . you have avoided my post on the Iraq oil contracts.
    Avoided? Not really. Just didn't want to waste my time.

    Logan, every once in a while you make good sense. The rest of the time, I have this image of you flailing away at your computer keyboard with lots of empty bottles of vodka laying all around you.

    * * * s i g h * * *

    I don't know if you've got some sort of cognitive challenges going, or if you get into debates you can't finish, or if you just like to pull people's chains, but the net result is that not every one of your posts is worth responding to. I've had you cornered several times, badgered you repeatedly to respond to my replies to issues you've raised, but in vain.

    I guess they're correct when they say, "Don't wrestle with a pig -- the pig likes it, and you get dirty."
    I suppose, since I've got other eggs to fry, I may as well just totally ignore your posts from now on. Not out of acrimony or frustration, but because I've got better things to do.

    Nevertheless, I wish you well. I hope you find yourself a wonderful life-mate, win the big super-lottery, have lots of wonderful children, win the Mr. Olympia, and live many many years. I also wish you the gift of wisdom and humility so you can enjoy everything else.

    So long,

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Avoided? Not really. Just didn't want to waste my time.

    Logan, every once in a while you make good sense. The rest of the time, I have this image of you flailing away at your computer keyboard with lots of empty bottles of vodka laying all around you.

    * * * s i g h * * *

    I don't know if you've got some sort of cognitive challenges going, or if you get into debates you can't finish, or if you just like to pull people's chains, but the net result is that not every one of your posts is worth responding to. I've had you cornered several times, badgered you repeatedly to respond to my replies to issues you've raised, but in vain.

    I guess they're correct when they say, "Don't wrestle with a pig -- the pig likes it, and you get dirty."
    I suppose, since I've got other eggs to fry, I may as well just totally ignore your posts from now on. Not out of acrimony or frustration, but because I've got better things to do.

    Nevertheless, I wish you well. I hope you find yourself a wonderful life-mate, win the big super-lottery, have lots of wonderful children, win the Mr. Olympia, and live many many years. I also wish you the gift of wisdom and humility so you can enjoy everything else.

    So long,

    -Tock
    Do not post false statements and we will not have a problem. If you can not make your point using the truth, than I believe that you have no point to make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Avoided? Not really. Just didn't want to waste my time.

    Logan, every once in a while you make good sense. The rest of the time, I have this image of you flailing away at your computer keyboard with lots of empty bottles of vodka laying all around you.

    * * * s i g h * * *

    I don't know if you've got some sort of cognitive challenges going, or if you get into debates you can't finish, or if you just like to pull people's chains, but the net result is that not every one of your posts is worth responding to. I've had you cornered several times, badgered you repeatedly to respond to my replies to issues you've raised, but in vain.

    I guess they're correct when they say, "Don't wrestle with a pig -- the pig likes it, and you get dirty."
    I suppose, since I've got other eggs to fry, I may as well just totally ignore your posts from now on. Not out of acrimony or frustration, but because I've got better things to do.

    Nevertheless, I wish you well. I hope you find yourself a wonderful life-mate, win the big super-lottery, have lots of wonderful children, win the Mr. Olympia, and live many many years. I also wish you the gift of wisdom and humility so you can enjoy everything else.

    So long,

    -Tock


    HAHA! Good job Logan! The truth is, we could all say most of this about Tock -- this just shows that you've managed to really frustrate him. Awesome.

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    Thanks for the good article logan. I can show this to my crazy uncle, he never shuts up about how we are going to die from global warming blah blah. global warming is bullshit and i am sick of hearing about it

  8. #8
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    Dizz28 is offline I reject your reality and substitute my own
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    Here's a fact...it's from the National Climatic Data Center

    We are acually at a colder temperature then we were 3000 years ago...even 1000 years ago.

    It's true that the world is getting warmer....but it will do this despite us and our "greenhouse" gasses. They are so worried about the emission of CO2 into the atmosphere but they acually did studies and found that crops are producing more yeald and by measuring the distance between the growth rings in trees that they are growing faster.

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    Im glad that serious opponents are getting more voice. Interesting.

    Here is btw a blogg by climat scientists
    http://www.realclimate.org/

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