"king of free stuff" / Retired
insulin promotes storage of fat, so how about using DNP at low dose (200mg) to prevent unwanted fat gain. I am just fishing for theories here. Would it work, do they counteract each other in any way? Obviously they both affect the way the body handles carbs so what interactions/synergy could one expect? Discuss...
HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
From what I have studied, DNP and Insulin is a great combo. Goose has a great article on it. I'll look for it and post it. Goose, get your but in here, you know what article I'm on about.
-Gear
Anabolic Member
I think Gavin Kane wrote an article to that effect.
I've been planning on trying that for a while now.
I don't see any counterindications.
Banned
Reporting for duty.Adding slin and/or IGF makes DNP safer,its great as in theory you cant go hypo.This makes it a great chance to add slin and IGF together,and what a great combo.Originally Posted by Gear
DNP and Insulin Part 1
The perfect “off†cycle
by Jason Mueller
I’m sure by now that everyone is familiar with the use of insulin of bodybuilding circles. Without a doubt, insulin use is the greatest advance in the sport since GH in the early 80’s. I would say that the massive size increases you have seen in the sport over the past five years have been a direct result of insulin use, more so than anything else. Insulin can also kill you.
Most of you are probably aware of DNP’s use in bodybuilding. For those of you who aren’t familiar with DNP, which by the way stands for 2,4-Dinitrophenol, it is an unbelievable fat burning drug. If you’ve ever wondered how a pro bodybuilder drops down from say, 280 to 225-230 in a very short period of time, it’s probably because that particular individual is using DNP with a host of other drugs like thyroid, clenbuterol, etc. In fact, this bodybuilder might develop thyroid problems and balloon up and down in weight, even missing shows or looking horrible at others. Man, good thing this isn’t a real person we’re talking about. Anyway, I digress. DNP is the greatest thing to come along in dieting since, well, I guess it’s about the only good thing to come along that I can think of. And, DNP will kill you quicker than insulin.
Before we continue on, let’s get real for a moment. Please do not use either insulin or DNP. I’m not joking that either of them can kill you, in fact the bottle of DNP I’m looking at right now lists the many horrible consequences of just touching the stuff. Be warned that you are taking your life in your hands by using either insulin or DNP. DNP is used in bug sprays for Christ’s sake. Now that I got that off my chest, we can continue.
I’m really not going to bore you with long and complicated explanations of how both DNP and insulin work in the body, but I do need to touch on the subject. Many of the articles written about DNP refer to it’s abilities to block the actions of insulin. This is true only in a limited sense. Insulin is released by pancreatic beta cells in response to elevated ATP/ADP ratios. Briefly, when your blood sugar levels rise, your ATP/ADP levels become elevated, inhibiting ATP sensitive potassium ion channels (KATP), altering the membrane potential of the pancreatic cells and causing insulin release. The key point here is that insulin will not be released unless ATP levels within the cells increase. DNP interferes with the protein complex ATP synthase, which allows for the synthesis of ATP from ADP and Pi (inorganic phosphate). Since DNP interferes with a key step in ATP production, obviously ATP levels never elevate within any cell, including pancreatic beta cells. Hence, the feedback system through the KATP channels (at least in regards to insulin release), is disabled, and you effectively make yourself a diabetic while on DNP.
The primary action of insulin in the body is to drive glucose into muscle and liver cells (stored as glycogen) which is converted into ATP. ATP again? Since DNP reduces ATP production significantly, it again interferes with insulin by preventing a significant amount of the glucose that is pushed into cells by insulin from ever being used as energy (at least by the cell). So, what is happening to all of this energy that is being expended through the electron transport chain to turn ADP and Pi into ATP? It’s thrown off as heat, and lots of it. In fact, because the amount of heat produced is a direct correlation of how much DNP is consumed, taking too much DNP will cook you from the inside out. Let me repeat this. Taking too much DNP will fry you like an egg. It doesn’t sound like a pleasant way to die, does it? DNP is not one of those, hey a little did me good, more will do me better kind of substances. A little will do you good and more will burn your ass up.
So, now we understand the ways in which DNP interferes with some of the actions of insulin. Another action of insulin (thank you God) is that it promotes transport of amino acids from the bloodstream into muscles and other cells. Insulin also increases the rate at which amino acids are incorporated into protein. Although DNP does block the release of insulin and prevents a key component of the electron transport chain (ATP synthase, remember?), it does nothing to prevent the aforementioned extremely anabolic affect of insulin. Therefore, when you use DNP, you should be administering insulin at the same time. The exogenous insulin will still work its anabolic magic while the DNP burns off reams of body fat through the resultant metabolic increase.
Many so called Gurus are recommending incorporating DNP as a component to any steroid cycle to ensure that weight gained is purely muscle and not fat. While this certainly works great on paper, application is a little different. I am a firm believer in training and eating to grow while on a heavy cycle (and what other kind is there?) Anyone who has any kind of contact with any professional bodybuilder in the off season will see that the chicken and rice thing has been thrown out of the window and that junk food rules the day. Their drug use is of such magnitude that eating clean would simply not supply the necessary calories for growth. Have you ever tried to consume 5000+ calories while on a low fat diet? Good luck. So, while they are certainly growing like a weed in the off season, they also tend to put on a bit of fat. Big deal. I’m going to let you in on a little secret. The only time those guys look like that is when they are on stage. Many people assume that the top guys are in shape all year round because they never see any pictures of them in the off season. And with good reason. Most (not all, but most) bodybuilders look like a chipmunk with a walnut in each cheek in the off season. These fellow tend to get a bit fat and bloated from their diets and heavy drug use. Now taking DNP while cycling will certainly help keep you leaner. It will also make you weaker, uncomfortable, and more quick to tire from a workout. Obviously not a good combination for consuming mass quantities while kicking ass in the gym is it? Therefore, we need a schedule for DNP administration. I’m a firm believer in down time from cycles (another article me thinks?), not because of receptor down regulation but from other factors. I propose a system where the athlete uses AS for 10 weeks, similar to the system advocated by Paul Borreson, followed by three weeks of down time. During this down time, 24 days actually, the athlete uses DNP in conjunction with insulin and T3, losing body fat while maintaining lean body mass. The dosing schedule would be as follows:
Last day of AS administration
Days 1-8 DNP with insulin and T3
Days 9-16 DNP is not used, insulin use continues, T3 continues for days 9-12
Days 17-24 DNP with insulin and T3
BACK ON THE JUICE!!
Psychologically this isn’t the easiest system to use. Most guys who take AS never want to come off because they can’t deal with the trauma of not feeling “juicedâ€. You know that feeling you have that if your car were flip over twenty times in a horrible flaming wreck it wouldn’t matter because you’re on and you wouldn’t get hurt. That’s the feeling I’m referring to, the feeling that I’m strong, I’m invincible and on top of the world. However, are you taking gear to give yourself some false sense of security or because you want to take your body to previously unseen levels? Every person I’ve seen who takes time off between cycles (we’re talking three weeks here people) is healthier, bigger, and in better shape than those who don’t. Additionally, by staying leaner in the off season, you have less fat to lose before a show, which will result is less muscle catabolism while dieting. I think we’ll see the day soon where bodybuilders are staying much leaner in the off season by incorporating a system like the one I’ve described above, and getting on stage much bigger.
Last edited by goose; 04-21-2007 at 04:31 PM.
Banned
DNP and Insulin Part 2
by Jason Mueller
In the last issue of Anabolic Extreme, we introduced the concept of using DNP and insulin in between steroid cycles to maintain size and reduce body fat. In Part II of this series, we'll further examine the use of these drugs and attempt to give you answers to the questions left unanswered in Part I.
Without a doubt, the biggest question people had after the first article was, "Where do I obtain DNP?" I know when people ask this question they are basically asking for an address or phone number they can call an order DNP like a pizza. I'm sorry if that's what you wanted, because it doesn't work that way. DNP is not a chemical that is very widely used, and the industries that use it are very specialized. For example, DNP is used in bug sprays. DNP is also used as a wood treatment. Railroad ties have DNP applied to them to help preserve them. Not very many companies sell DNP because it is considered a hazardous material and companies have to apply to the ***artment of Transportation to become exempt from certain regulations regarding the shipping and transport of these materials. So, what we are left with is a situation where there exists a very small need for DNP and it can only be obtained from a few companies. Understand that when you call these companies, you're usually dealing with someone who has a background in chemistry and are not easily conned into selling a dangerous substance to Joe Bodybuilder. However, that doesn't mean it can't be done!
The first thing I would do if I were a person seeking DNP is find out what companies actually sell this substance. There are a couple of different ways to do this. One, you can search the chemical companies on the net. There are several different chemical sites that will actually locate companies that sell given chemicals. This takes time and perseverance but is a fairly good way to locate any substance you might be seeking. The other way is to find out what companies can even ship hazardous materials through carriers like UPS. Again, these companies have to file with the ***artment of Transportation and be granted an exemption from certain regulations. Since this is public information, it's possible to get the list of exempt companies from the ***artment of Transportation. The regulations from which these companies are exempted are 49 CFR Parts 172 Subparts E and F, 173.25(a) (1) - (4), 174.3, 174.81, 175.3, 177.801, 177.848 and Part 173, Subpart E. What does this mean? How the hell should I know? What I do know is that if you write to the following address, you can get a list of companies that can ship these materials through normal carriers.
Associate Administrator for Hazardous Materials Safety, Research and Special Programs Administration
***artment of Transportation Washington D.C., 20590
Attention DHM-31
Now the great thing about a substance like DNP is that it's very hard to get. Which means that the average guy probably won't be able to obtain it. My feelings on DNP are that if you are smart enough to obtain it, you are smart enough to use it properly. However, I have noticed that some boards have posts from individuals offering to sell DNP capsules. DO NOT BUY DNP FROM THESE INDIVIDUALS!!! Let's get real for a moment. The dosage of DNP that can kill you is not significantly higher than that which is used to lose body fat. Since we are dealing with very small amounts of material, it's vitally important that the utmost care is taken when measuring DNP. Personally, my life is worth enough to me that I'm not going to trust some strangers skill in very precise measuring, unless that person has gone to school for years like a pharmacist. Once you've obtained the DNP, what's next? DNP is packed wet, moistened to about 20-25% H20 by weight. Because it is considered a volatile substance, it's packed wet to keep it exploding in transport. Before we can encapsulate the DNP, we have to remove as much of the water as possible. For the purposes of this article, I tested a small sample of DNP to determine its volatility. I took a very amount and tried to ignite it under a flame. No dice, it simply melted. I also took a small amount and subjected it to forceful compression, which is a fancy way of saying I hit it with a hammer. Still nothing. So, I assume that DNP is relatively stable. At the same time, I wouldn't try and dry it out in my oven. The most effective way I've found is to simply leave it out in the sun for a day. I've also used a desk lamp when the sun wasn't an option. Despite the results of my two simple tests, I still respect DNP and take great care in drying it out. You should too.
In order for the DNP to be measured out properly, you'll need to obtain a very accurate scale. The scale I use is accurate to 0.1 g. You can obtain scales that are more precise but they are tremendously expensive and are unnecessary for our purposes. The easiest way to find an acceptable scale is visit a smoke shop. Hopefully, everyone reading this article is familiar with the metric system. DNP is best used at a ratio of 4-5 mg per kg of bodyweight. Slightly higher dosages are more effective at burning fat, but come at the expense of an increase in discomfort and are generally impractical for most people. Knowing that 1 lb equals 2.2 kg, a 220 lb bodybuilders weighs 100 kg. Therefore, this bodybuilder would want to consume approximately 400-500 mg of DNP per day. Ideally this is consumed in two equally divided doses, one taken at about 5 p.m., the other immediately before bed. Since most of you will be using a scale that is similar to the one mentioned above, it's impossible to measure DNP with precision accuracy. Realistically capsules will range in potency from 150-300 mg per capsules. However, this is accurate enough for our purposes.
When handling DNP, the utmost in care must be taken not to destroy you house. DNP stains like nothing I've ever seen before. Its fumes will also stain just as bad as the actual powder, so you must store dried DNP in a fashion that does not allow the fumes to escape. Just to give you an example, when I first starting using DNP, I stored my dried out powder on the far corner of my kitchen counter in a flat Pyrex dish sealed in two hefty trash bags. It wasn't before very long that the entire corner of my kitchen started taking on a yellowish hue from the escaping fumes. It's best to store DNP inside a sealed Ziploc bag inside a sealed Tupperware container. When handling the actual powder, cover everything in the immediate vicinity with plastic! Wear gloves and immediately throw them away outside along with any other protective material. If you are lax in your handling of DNP, everyone will notice because your home will be stained a nice urine yellow.
DNP's Side Effects
Once you start taking DNP, the side effects begin. What follows is a listing of the joys of taking DNP.
Sweating
The first time you take DNP, you prepare yourself for some excessive sweating. Believe me when I tell you that no amount of hyperbole can prepare you for the actual ordeal you are beginning. By the second day of your DNP cycle, you should be feeling fairly moist. By day three, it's as if someone is twisting you like a wet washcloth, squeezing all of the water out of you. During my first cycle of DNP, I was working in a job that required formal attire. I had to lie to everyone at work and tell them I was very sick and feverish for five days while I was drenched in sweat. Fortunately now I work at home and am able to sweat like a pig in the comfort of my own house.
It's vitally important to drink copious amounts of water while on DNP to avoid dehydration from the excessive sweating induced by DNP. It's also important to stay as cool as possible at night while sleeping. Keep your house as cold as possible and aim at a fan at yourself at night.
Discoloration of Bodily Fluids
From the anecdotal reports we've received, everyone experiences this side effect to one degree or another. Urine becomes a dark yellow, sweat secretions stain clothes yellow, and semen takes on a yellowish tinge. Although the discoloration of bodily fluids is not harmful in and of itself, it can be quite irritating when you've managed to ruin half your shirts and stain your carpet. When I take DNP, I take care not to wear light colored clothing, especially whites. During my first DNP cycle, I ruined several white shirts by staining the collars and armpits of the shirts yellow. Additionally I managed to ruin brand new carpet in my home by laying on it while I was sweating. Unbelievably, it left yellow stains on the carpet that I cannot get out. Finally, I have carpeted bathrooms that are now stained with yellow dots from the shower water bouncing off my skin and onto the floor. DNP users should take care around any fabrics and take necessary precautions to avoid ruining them by allowing them to come into contact with bodily secretions. Once you've stained any material yellow, it's probably not coming out.
Lack of Energy/Lethargy
Obviously, any substance that interferes with your normal production of ATP is going to cause extreme lethargy. Please refer to Article I in the archives section for a detailed explanation of how DNP works in the body. By day three of a DNP cycle it becomes difficult to make it through a normal days activities. Most users will find it difficult to continue on their normal workout schedule due to the extreme lethargy experienced while using DNP. This is one of the primary reasons why DNP cycles are kept very short.
DNP Cycles
DNP cycles are created out of a need to balance the benefits of DNP with the many unpleasant side effects of the drug. For the dosing schedule of DNP, please refer to Part I of this article in the archives section. The eight-day cycles allow for significant fat loss to occur while allowing the user to recover from the trauma of using the drug. Most individuals find themselves at the end of their rope, so to speak, at the end of the eight days. Additionally, longer cycles might result in muscle catabolism as a result of decreased ATP levels within the muscle cell and an inability for the user to effectively train with weights. The dosing schedule advocated in Part I of this article allows for two brief DNP cycles during a "cleaning out" period from anabolics. Not only does this help keep bodyfat levels low, but the anabolic rebound effect experienced after a DNP cycle helps maintain lean body mass while off steroids.
Insulin
Insulin therapy is crucial to achieve the massive size exhibited by today's professional bodybuilders. However, extreme caution must be exercised when using insulin to avoid a dangerous drop in blood sugars. Compounding this problem is the fact that significant amounts of insulin must be used to achieve the desired effect. In my research, I've seen very few articles accurately state the amount of insulin that should be used to induce anabolism. Most articles quote figures that are next to useless, in the range of 1-3 iu's a few times a day. Realistically, insulin is most effective when used in the 30-40 iu's a day range, with some professional bodybuilders using 3 times that amount!
Carbohydrates must be consumed every time a dose of insulin is administered. A good rule of thumb is to consume 10 grams of carbohydrates for every 1 iu of insulin that is used. Since most doses should be in the 10 iu range, you must consume 100 grams of carbohydrate to protect yourself from hypoglycemia. These carbs should consist of a combination of simple and complex carbs. A few examples of this would be eating a banana with rice or drinking fruit juice with a baked potato. It's imperative that you always have an emergency source of simple carbohydrates on you at all times, whether it be a soft drink, candy bar, or tube of glucose paste. It's also a good idea to inform the people around you that you are using insulin so they know what to do if you start acting funny. Simply tell people that you have been diagnosed as a diabetic and go over the symptoms of getting "low" with them. I go so far as to wear a medic alert bracelet stating I'm a diabetic. Lastly, you should obtain a glucagon pen in case you really get in trouble. Glucagon has the opposite effect of insulin and will cause a massive release of glycogen from your liver and muscle cells.
While insulin will certainly cause anabolism, it also has a tendency to make you fat. The dosing schedule described in Part I of this article solves that dilemma. When insulin is used during a steroid cycle, the fat burning properties of the steroids keeps fat gain to a minimum. When it's used during the cleaning out period, the simultaneous use of DNP will actually cause a reduction in bodyfat while the insulin keeps the loss of lean body mass at a minimum.
Accessory Supplements and Drugs
While using DNP and insulin, some accessory drugs and supplements are required to ensure the safety and effectiveness of these substances. What follows is a list of these supplements and drugs, along with a brief explanation of each.
Anti-Oxidants
Anti-oxidants are of particular importance when taking DNP. In the early 1900's when DNP was used as a dieting drug in this country, a very small percentage of women talking the drug ended up with cataracts. Taking anti-oxidants like vitamin C and vitamin E are vitally important to reduce any risk of developing cataracts and to reduce the damage caused by the increased production of free radicals. Vitamin C can also be beneficial due to its cortisol suppressing abilities when taken in high dosages so consume about 10 grams a day in divided dosages. Vitamin E should be supplemented at a rate of about a 1000 iu's per day.
Glycerol
Glycerol has been shown in some studies to aid in muscle hydration. Dehydration is always an issue when using DNP due to the extreme sweating it causes. Even slight dehydration can cause catabolism in muscle cells, so staying properly hydrated becomes vitally important when using an agent like DNP. Use 3 tbsp a day in divided dosages and try to consume a gallon of water per day.
Carbohydrate Drinks
As stated earlier, bodybuilders using insulin to induce anabolism always run the risk of dropping blood glucose to dangerous levels. Carbohydrate drinks or supplements like Carboplex are quick, efficient ways to ensure you are getting the necessary carbohydrates you need every time you administer insulin. Shoot for 10 grams of carbs for every iu of insulin used.
T3 Thyroid
DNP use will cause a significant decrease in the production of thyroid hormones as your body attempts to counter its significant increase in temperature. As such, supplemental doses of T3 thyroid become crucial to maximize the effectiveness of DNP's fat burning characteristics. T3, available as Cynomel in Mexico, should be used at a rate of 25-50 mcg per day. It's also possible to use triatricol, available over the counter as a dietary supplement here in the US, failing acquisition of Cytomel or Cynomel. Triatricol should be supplemented at a rate of 1000-2000 mcg per day.
Chromium Picolinate
Chromium Picolinate is a chelated form of chromium, an essential co-factor for the proper function of insulin in the body. Chromium increases the absorbability of insulin, helping to reduce body fat and build lean muscle. Most people suffer from deficient levels of this mineral since most foods do not contain chromium. Athletes should supplement chromium picolinate at 200 mcg per day.
DNP and insulin can be combined synergistically for a powerful anabolic/lipotropic combination. Athletes considering the use of these substances must be made aware of all the potential side effects and dangers associated with these drugs. If you are considering using either of these substances, please carefully consider the information presented in this two part series. Hopefully we will help you minimize the risks and enjoy more of the benefits of these powerful drugs.
Banned
I love this,so smart and complex.From building the perfect beast the book not the vet,LOL.
Truncated Insulin and Bug Spray = The Poor Mans IGF-1 ?
In the world of the Chemically enhanced athlete exists the really strange truth
that someone somewhere has tried it, whatever "it" may be. AAS (anabolic/androgenic
steroids)? Yup. Growth Factors? Duh! Bug spray? Oddly enough, yes...and insulin to
complete the stack. Why?
Picture an average athlete gaining 20 LBS of lean tissue mass while losing half
that amount in adipose tissue without the use of any AAS. Hmmm? Big deal? Have you
seen what 20 lbs of lean meat looks like in the grocery store? Now cut away 1 0 lbs of
fat and rethink that big deal idea.
Thankfully many athletes have realized that maximum progress occurs due to
working with instead of against the body's physiological Action/Reaction Factors.
This means a planned protocol that correctly anticipates and responds to the body's
negative reactions to chemically induced positive actions. Anything else simply
becomes a matter of attempting to maintain a degree of the positive gains achieved
through progressive dosages while negative side-effects mount to a chronic level yet
unknown. Ponder that as you read on.
Insulin
Insulin is notably the most anabolic substance there is in the average hard-core
beast's chemical muscle enhancement arsenal. Unfortunately insulin's anabolic action
is not lean tissue specific. Yup! This means that the employment of insulin includes
an anabolic response to fat cells leading to an increase in adipose tissue growth
almost equal to lean tissue growth for many wanna-be beasts.
Some claim not to mind the Krispy Creme addict appearance (as they hide
within layers of sweatshirts) and unnecessarily view it as the lesser of two evils. (The
word "small" is the evilest word spoken in the gym and the bedroom alike.)
Warning: Insulin Science Geek Stuff
Insulin stimulates the all-important activity of the cell Sodium/Potassium Pump
(SPP) which in turn increases the rate and level of nutrient transport into cells. (Cell
feeding mediator) Though the three macronutrients: Protein (in the form of amino
acids), fats (in the form of fatty acids) and carbohydrates (in the forms of glucose and
glycogen) are all paramount to the growth process, it is amino acid (AA) transport
potential that we are most focused upon in this article. The reason is obvious in that
the growth rate or hypertrophy of muscle cells is proportionate to the rate and level
of AA entry into them. No one makes freak status with a low AA transport potential.
142
Insulin and other anabolic substances increase the process of protein synthesis
(anabolism) and RNA activity. Insulin is believed to affect DNA in a way that causes an
up-regulation in DNA initiated protein synthesis. Of all anabolics, insulin is far more
powerful and important in this respect due to the Sodium/Potassium Pump factor
and, specifically, BCAA (Branch Chain Amino Acids) up-take as a result of its actions.
Insulin inhibits protein break-down (catabolism) by directly interfering with the
activity of certain structures called lysosomes. Lysosomes are intricate to the action of
breaking down cellular proteins into amino acids so that they may be used as energy.
In case you missed the point, these proteins are cannibalized from muscle tissue. By
acting as an anti-catabolic substance, insulin inhibits muscle loss. Unfortunately
insulin also inhibits fat loss as well.
For a moment imagine the freaky potential insulin would possess for lean tissue
growth if it did not inhibit fat loss while remaining anabolic to muscle tissue? Yup, a
poor mans IGF-1 would be the result!
(The following is an excerpt from Chemical Muscle Enhancement)
DNP (2,4 DINITROPHENOL)
This was truly reported as being chemical exercise. Normally the mitochondria
process that converts ADP (adenosine diphosphate) into ATP (adenosine triphosphate)
is about 60% efficient, which means there is a great deal of energy wasted. Those who
have read the creatine section ahead of this are well aware of our good friend ATP.
When we exercise, this process accelerates and raises our metabolic rate. (More
calories are burned as a result) The process is called oxidative phosphorylation. Since
ATP is the high-energy chemical our bodies utilize for intense training, anything that
compromises this process will make cellular mitochondria work harder and expend
more energy as heat. (Body temperature rises)
DNP is an oxidative phosphorylation uncoupler. It makes the process only about
40% efficient by uncoupling a high-energy phosphate molecule from ATP and
therefore turning ATP into ADP. To maintain an adequate supply of ATP, the body
must step-up production. For this reason metabolism is significantly increased and an
incredible amount of calories are burned. During this accelerated metabolic state, and
due to the need for ATP production, most of the calories come from fatty acids
(adipose/fat tissue). So little or no muscle is lost (With adequate protein intake).
Users experienced elevated body temperatures and perspiration even while
sitting around. Simply stated, metabolic rates elevate 100-200% in only a few hours.
Sounds great, but DNP can be deadly. It has even been used as a component of bug
spray. Since increased energy is dissipated as body heat, too high of a dosage of DNP
for to long of a period can actually COOK ORGANS! No joke, I mean medium well
done. I cannot stress enough how dangerous the use of this chemical can be. The
143
body usually possesses receptors or pathways to shut down as a means of survival
from the potential life threatening dangers and damage of most chemicals. In the
case of DNP there are none.
The issue of body temperature is of interest here and is a relevant point to
discuss further. Clenbuterol and ephedrine are fairly easy to chart for effective
results by checking body temperature. However, DNP is much different in this
sense. When an athlete (or anyone) used DNP, increased respiration, heart rate, and
skin dilation occurred. Thus heat is quickly dissipated.
This means that a person using DNP could feel warm but a thermometer can
fail to show an increase in body temperature. According to available literature, in
most cases a body temperature of near 1 0 0 degrees indicates a metabolic rate of
about twice normal. It also means that the individual is in the very near the danger
zone. This is wholly unnecessary, and it is the low cellular ATP level induced by high
dosage DNP use that was most dangerous.
The temperature or heat issue is secondary by comparison. Most reported
users of DNP ingested a daily dosage of 6-8 mg per kilogram of body weight.
Realistically speaking, I can say from personal experience that this is not only an
uncomfortable experience, but dangerous and unnecessary as well. My experience has
been that 3-5mg/kg daily provided better results and did so even without a calorie
decrease. Personally I felt a body temperature of 99.5-99.7 degrees was preferable
also.
Before going on, I would like to say a few related points. Now we know that the
mitochondrial process of converting ADP into ATP is called oxidative phosphorylation
and that the process is normally 60% efficient. We know DNP is an oxidative
phosphorylation uncoupler that will reduce the process efficiency to 40% and that this
burns fat while raising metabolic rates 100-200% while increasing body temperature.
(We also know misuse can cook our guts!).
*So now we have insulin and its "anabolic to muscle and fat" alike qualities and DNP
that increases calorie expenditure primarily from fat stores. It would seem that we have
applied Action/Reaction Factors correctly to create an increase in lean tissue mass at
the expense of adipose tissue stores. But here is where it gets really interesting...
Warning: More Science Geek Stuff Interesting
Studies Sometimes Validate What We Have learned
*Rapid stimulation of glucose transport by mitochondria! uncoupling ***ends in part on cytosolic Ca2+ and cPKC
Z A Khayat, T Tsakiridis, A Ueyama, R Somwar, A Kiip
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSIOLOGY, 275(6 Pt 1):C1487~C1497 1998
144
2,4-Dinitrophenoi (DNP) uncouples the mitochondria! oxidative chain from ATP
production, preventing oxidative metabolism, The consequent increase in energy
demand is, however, contested by cells increasing glucose uptake to produce ATP via
glycolysis. In skeletal muscle cells, DNP rapidly doubles glucose transport,
reminiscent of the effect of insulin. However, glucose transport stimulation by DNP
does not require insulin receptor substrate-1 phosphorylation and is wortmanniti
insensitive.
Overnight treatment with 4-phorbol 12-myristate 13-acetate down-regulated
cPKC isoforms alpha, beta, and gamma and partially inhibited (45.0 +/- 3.6%) DNPbut
not insulin-stimulated glucose uptake. Consistent with this, the PKC inhibitor
bisindolyimaleimide I blocked PKC enzyme activity at the plasma membrane (100%)
and inhibited DNP-stimulated 2-[3H]deoxyglucose uptake (61.2 +/- 2.4%) with no
effect on the stimulation of glucose transport by insulin. Finally, the selective PKCbeta
inhibitor LY-379196 partially inhibited DNP effects on glucose uptake (66.7 +/-
1.6%). The results suggest interfering with mitochondria! ATP production acts on a
signal transduction pathway in***endent from that of insulin and partly mediated by
Ca2+ and cPKCs, of which PKC-beta likely plays a significant role.
So now we know that insulin is not the only mediator of glucose transport into muscle
cells. We also have validated the increase in potential muscle glycogen synthesis during the
employment of DNP is about twice that of insulin. Hmmm, not getting it yet? Be patient. You will
in a minute.
*Effects of cellular ATP ***letion on glucose transport and insulin signaling in 3T3-L1 adipocytes
E Heart, J Kang, C K Sung
American Journal of Physiology - Endocrinology and Metabolism , 280(3):E428-E435 2001
Glucosamine induced insulin resistance in 3T3-L1 adipocytes (fat cells), which
was associated with a 15% decrease in cellular ATP content. To study the role of ATP
***letion in insulin resistance, researchers employed sodium azide (NaN3) and
dinitropheno! (DNP), which affect mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation, to achieve
a similar 15% ATP ***letion.
Unlike glucosamine, NaN3 and DNP markedly increased basal glucose
transport, and the increased basal glucose transport was associated with increased
GLUT-1 content in the plasma membrane without changes in total GLUT-1 content.
These agents, like glucosamine, did not affect the early insulin signaling that is
implicated in insulin stimulation of glucose transport. In cells with a severe 40% ATP
***letion, basal glucose transport was similarly elevated, and insulin-stimulated
glucose transport was similar in cells with 15% ATP ***letion.
In these cells, however, early insulin signaling was severely diminished. These
data suggest that cellular ATP ***letion by glucosamine, NaN3, and DNP exerts
differential effects on basal and insulin-stimulated glucose transport and that ATP
***letion per se does not induce insulin resistance in 3T3-L1 adipocytes.
145
DNP aids in inducing an environment of insulin resistance in adipose sites thus
decreasing the ability for fat cells to get food. So DNP increases calorie expenditure as
heat, increases glucose transport into muscle cells but decreases fat cell gluttony.
Gee, do you think the combination of the super anabolic insulin and DNP just may be
very pro-muscle growth and fat loss?
Closing Thoughts and Other insanity
When athletes have employed the DNP/lnsulin Protocol in the past there has
been a noted dramatic increase in lean tissue mass and a lack of hypoglycemia in
almost all cases. This in itself was an exciting issue to research as one of the many
negative side effects possible from non-medically supervised administration of insulin
in hypoglycemia and coma...and death. (All of which suck) There are two possible
explanations for this:
1. The insulin molecule is experiencing N-terminal truncation when coming into
contact with circulatory DNP. When the N-terminal is removed from IGF-1 the
resulting growth factor is called Des (1-3) IGF-1. The result is an anabolic far
more powerful than even IGF-1 itself. This is true of IGF-2 and other growth
factors including insulin. The possibility strongly suggests that the truncated
insulin molecule would more readily fit into and activate the muscle cell IGF-1
receptors as well.
2. The insulin and IGF-1 receptors themselves are truncated by the presence of
DNP. In this case the truncation is effecting the COOH-Terminal response thus
altering the hypoglycemic and anabolic effects of insulin positively toward that
of IGF-1 in both function and action.
*There are several approaches that have been employed for Insulin and DNP but
one of the more effective examples follows. Please do not try this at home.
(Even with proper medical supervision and a professional exterminator.)
WARNING!
This is intended as a discussion example only and not meant as a guide for use. DNP
and insulin can both be very dangerous chemicals. Insulin use must be medically
supervised and DNP has not been a legal supplement since the 20's.
Insulin & Bug Spray Example Protocol
DAY DRUGS
1. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
2.
3. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
4.
5. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
6.
7. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
8.
9. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
10.
11. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
12.
13. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
14.
15. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
16.
17. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
18.
19. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
20.
21. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
22.
23. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
24.
25. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
26.
27. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
28.
• Optional layer: Avandia 2mg 2xd increases muscle cell insulin receptor sensitivity and facilitates
an improved IGF-1 profile.
"king of free stuff" / Retired
Hmm thx guys, It worked in theory in my head so now I may give it a try. Slin + low dose DNP while im in PCT. I'll post results in my log. On a side note my powerlifting buddy has been running DNP @ 400mg ED and has dropped 9 kilos in 9 days. The results have been phenomenal to say the least, and that is while he has been eating the usual powerliftiung diet of crap. He has suffered no sides other than increased sweating.
Banned
You think DNP is cool,me tai and fred are going to try this!
During 1933, Dodds and Robertson27b published three communications dealing with the clinical application of a related nitro-compound, 4:6 dinitro-ortho-cresol. This drug was claimed by these authors to be from three to five times more powerful than dinitrophenol, although its toxicity was no greater. They believed that dinitro-ortho-cresol was superior
for weight reduction, since equal effects could be secured with one-third the dosage
HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
Goose, thanx for posting that mate, appriciate it
-Gear
HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
Your nutsand when are you planning on doing that?
-Gear
Banned
Your nuts
-Gear
When I find a sourceI have a good lead at the moment fingers cross.Its so hard to find,easier getting C4
On paper it looks good,only needing 50mg each day.
Member
whahah lol...yes that must be some strong stuff that 4:6 dinitro-ortho-cresol
HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
Ye ye, rightio mate. Just don't go blowin shit upWhen I find a source
On paper it looks good,only needing 50mg each day.
LOL @ C4
-Gear
"Vanity Redefined" ~VET~
only 50?! psh... ima atleast frontload w/ 6x that! lolWhen I find a source
On paper it looks good,only needing 50mg each day.
Banned
only 50?! psh... ima atleast frontload w/ 6x that! lol
LOL.......I know you to well.Last week you will hit a gram
I get some you and fred will get it,that simple.
Ps.Fred I know your looking for it too,if you find it first.PM me baby
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
mate you lot are madd...............When I find a source
On paper it looks good,only needing 50mg each day.
let me know how you get on if you source any.............
_____________________
Remember.............for us to help you you need to help us....................stats and exp.........
Source checks and Ugl's to be kept to PM's
dont ask for source checks unless you have 100 posts/and 45 days minimum as a participating member.........
Booz.. a long-standing member of the AR Police:
sorry but absolutely no sources will be checked at this present time....
Banned
Hope your cycle is going well.I got a problem mate,I love lean muscle so much.The only thing I cant Resist is temtation.As you know I had a few problems with DNP,end of the day,getting a bloody nose from time to time is part of the game.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
lol amen to that,had a few ups and downs coz am still sorting my npersonal life out but the gains are coming fast,am only three weeks in and have put roughly 20lbs back on...............
_____________________
Remember.............for us to help you you need to help us....................stats and exp.........
Source checks and Ugl's to be kept to PM's
dont ask for source checks unless you have 100 posts/and 45 days minimum as a participating member.........
Booz.. a long-standing member of the AR Police:
sorry but absolutely no sources will be checked at this present time....
Banned
lol amen to that,had a few ups and downs coz am still sorting my npersonal life out but the gains are coming fast,am only three weeks in and have put roughly 20lbs back on...............
Man your a stud,Im so happy for you.I told you long cycles are best.
"king of free stuff" / Retired
goose would you mind telling me what ancillaries you run with DNP to minimize sides ect?
Banned
1200IU Vitamin E
10000 mg Vitamin C powder form yes (10000)
600mg Magnesium
~3g Potassium/Sodium
1500mg Taurine
superoxide dismutase load 1000iu every other day for 7 days then 2000iu ever 5 days via sub
Calcium Pyruvate
yates Multi-Vitamin & Mineral
"king of free stuff" / Retired
know anywhre i can get the pyruvate and superoxide?
Banned
pyruvate here:
http://www.biovea.net/
superoxide PM sent.
"king of free stuff" / Retired
have been running DNP (400mg) + slin + igf for last 4 days. Went hypo yesterday when i took the IGF and slin with breakfast. so just to let you guys know that DNP does not make it THAT difficult to hypo!!
HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
You just wait till you're about 7 days into taking DNP
All the best mate.
-Gear
"king of free stuff" / Retired
LOL i got hot as hell when i loaded up with rice crispy cakes during hypo yesterday!! Both me and my doorman (who is very fat) are running DNP at same dose. In 14 days he has dropped 10 kilos which is phenomenal (and his diet sucks although he is slowly coming round to my way of thinking on that). I must say I'm pretty impressed with DNP. So far neither of us have had any bad sides (apart from sweating more, ALOT more) and it works very well indeed. Obviosly we are both running the correct ancillaries with it ect....
Banned
10 kilos fuuuuuuuck! Most I ever lost in 2 weeks was about 8-10lbs!
Banned
Damm that happened to me around 7 weeks ago;going hypo.I told snrfmaster about it and we were confused to hell.
What type of DNP you using?
Last edited by goose; 04-28-2007 at 05:43 AM.
Banned
I asked via PM...naughty goose asking for sources lol. if he's only been on it a few days its effects probably aren't in full swing I figured..but you'd been on it a while hadnt you?
Banned
Its optimal build up has not peaked for beast,the madness and the inferno will blaze fully in 3 days.I don't remember the specifics snf,but if you remember I frontloaded aggressively,but your right it happened later in the cycle.It was a shock,as the science I have read stated it should not happen,however,combing IGF in the mix increases insulin sensitivity dramatically.I don't ask for much...a little pussy and a good source for Christmas never does lean muscle any harm.
Junior Member
Are there different dnp powders? I would like to try capping my own since I already homebrew my gear
Banned
if I recall correctly you have the red/white caps anyway right? stick with them...they're 100x better than capping the industrial shit yourself
"king of free stuff" / Retired
pm sent mate
New Member
Ive been trying to find info on 4:6 and only seeing info on 3:5 could you tell me where you found this?
"AR's Pretty Boy"
Nice reads Goose, Much appreciated!
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