Maybe a bit of a stupid HGH question

[pip_squeek]

Hi guys been reading about the HGH and looking at doing a cycle i have done a cycle of sust250 for 10 weeks and got pretty good results from it for a second cycle i am looking at doin HGH for 3months approx 12 weeks. My question is after reading the thread about the HGH the possible sides are growth of the hands, elbows and feet and possibly the forehead has anybopdy experienced these sides?? i know it s probably the most stupidest question i posted but curious. I am 25 yrs of age and i believe i could get good results from HGH

[Kale]

You will only get these sides form very high doses and extended use. And 12 weeks isnt long enough to see the full benefit of HGH, you need to do it for at least six months. Whats doses were you considering ?

[thunderin]

I got this from Iron Tribe. See the bolded type below.

http://www.irontrybe.com/forum/archi...php/t-854.html

Growth Hormone

Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Strength-4
Weight Gain-4
Fat Loss-4
Side Effects-2
Keep Gains--4

Side Effects:

Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Acromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints

Benefits of GH:

New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening

Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:

You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!

Conversions:

1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc

6 mg = 18iu

1 ml = 18iu

.50 ml = 9iu

.25 ml = 4.5iu

Some people choose to only do it in cc’s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart

5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart

Differences Between Kits:

The main difference between kits is how many iu’s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.

Dose:

4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it ***ends on your predisposition for it.

How to Stack:

GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to ***ending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.

Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:

Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.

Half-Life of GH:

Exogenous (injected) GH has a "half-life" of approximately 2 hours . . . a 4-hour period of activity during which there is a suppression of naturally produced GH.

GH Naturally Produced:

We release the most of our naturally produced GH during the first two hours of deep sleep...you may take a little time to adjust.... your body thinks you should be in bed when that big influx hits. It is good to take a nap, that’s when you grow anyway. It always helps to take naps after workouts and injections everyday.

GH Causing Acromeglia:

Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it.

GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:

Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth. Some people are allergic to synthetic test, this is something you have to find out for yourself. Some people also feel intestinal discomfort from time to time, if so take it down to one item at a time to see what is causing you discomfort; creatine, glutamine, protein products, orals, and dirty gear have all been known to cause this, so find the problem early.

GH and IGF-1:

Perhaps the most relevant effect of IGF-1 is the ability of IGF-1 to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation (mRNA makes protein) as well as increasing uptake of amino acids. This effect on protein synthesis can lead to increased lean mass. The research indicates that this effect is ***endent on GH presence as well. So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis.

GH and IGF-1 are negative regulators of GH release so an increase in either (from a GH injection) reduces the secretion of GH. IGF-1 is very difficult to obtain in a useable condition.... it must be handled very gently and have bee kept at a rather precise temperature at all times. One can stimulate IGF production through the use of an oral steroid during cycle. Dbol, for example, causes a rather extensive release of IGF during the first pass through the liver.

The leading studies in this area: (Ney, 1999, Yarasheski, 1994.... Am J. App. Phys.)
In the Yarasheski study, no increase in lean muscle mass was noticed in the subjects using GH alone, but significant gains were found in subjects that supplemented with IGF and GH...add in the steroids and look out! Yarasheski studied weight trained athletes, supplementing one group with GH alone, and one group with GH and IGF. "So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. (Leanness and increased lean mass) Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis." Both seem to negatively downregulate the other over time, so as to lead to diminishing returns. Cycling would be in order for that reason. Also supplementing both is necessary because one or the other alone will suppress the natural production of the non-supplemented Latest study by Yarashevski - with GH alone...8 to 12% change in lean body composition. 6% increase in muscle mass.

Growth Hormone

"Wow, is this great stuff. It is the best drug for permanent muscle gains. This is the only drug that can remedy bad genetics, as it will make anybody grow. GH use is the biggest gamble that an athlete can take, as the side effects are irreversible. Even with all that, we LOVE the stuff." (Daniel Duchaine, Underground Steroid Handbook, 1982.)

As with no other doping drug, growth hormones are still surrounded by an aura of mystery. Some call it a wonder drug which causes gigantic strength and muscle gains in the shortest time. Others con-sider it completely useless in improving sports performance and ar-gue that it only promotes the growth process in children with an early stunting of growth. Some are of the opinion that growth hor-mones in adults cause severe bone deformities in the form of over-growth of the lower jaw and extremities. And, generally speaking, which growth hormones should one take -the human form, the synthetically manufactured version, recombined or genetically pro-duced form- and in which dosage? All this controversy about growth hormones is so complex that the reader must have some basic information in order to understand them. The growth hor-mone is a polypeptide hormone consisting of 191 amino acids. In humans it is produced in the hypophysis and released if there are the right stimuli (e.g. training, sleep, stress, low blood sugar level). It is now important to understand that the freed HGH (human growth hormone) itself has no direct effect but only stimulates the liver to produce and release insulin-like growth factors and so-matomedins. These growth factors are then the ones that cause vari-ous effects on the body The problem, however, is that the liver is only capable of producing a limited amount of these substances so that the effect is limited. If growth hormones are injected they only stimulate the liver to produce and release these substances and thus, as already mentioned, have no direct effect.

During the mid 1980's only the human, biologically-active form was available as exogenous sour-cc of intake. It was obtained from the hypophysis of dead corpses, an expensive and costly procedure. In 1985 the intake of human growth hormones was linked with the very rare Creutzfeld-Jakob disease, an invariably fatal brain disease characterized by progressive dementia. In response, manufacturers removed this version from the market. Today, human growth hor-mones are no longer available for injection. Fortunately, science has not been asleep and has developed the synthetic growth hormone which is genetically produced either from Escherichia coli (E coli) or from the transformed mouse cell line. It has been available in nu-merous countries for years.

The use of these STH somatotropic hormone compounds offers the athlete three performance-enhancing effects. STH (somatotropic hormone) has a strong anabolic effect and causes an increased pro-tein synthesis which manifests itself in a muscular hypertrophy (enlargement of muscle cells) and in a muscular hyperplasia (in-crease of muscle cells.) The latter is very interesting since this in-crease cannot be obtained by the intake of steroids. This is probably also the reason why STH is called the strongest anabolic hormone. The second effect of STH is its pronounced influence on the burning of fat. It turns more body fat into energy, leading to a drastic reduc-tion in fat or allowing the athlete to increase his caloric intake. Third, and often overlooked, is the fact that STH strengthens the connective tissue, tendons, and cartilages, which could be one of the main reasons for the significant increase in strength experienced by many athletes. Several bodybuilders and powerlifters report that through the simultaneous intake with steroids STH protects the athlete from injuries while increasing his strength. You will say that this sounds just wonderful. What is the problem, however, since there are still some who argue that STH offers nothing to athletes? There are, by all means, several athletes who have tried STH and who were sadly disappointed by its results. However, as with many things in life, there is a logical explanation or perhaps even more than one:

1.The athlete simply has not taken a sufficient amount of STH regularly and over a long enough period of time. STH is a very expensive compound and an effective dosage is unaffordable by most people.

2.When using STH the body also needs more thyroid hormones, insulin, corticosteroids, gonadotropins, estrogens and - what a surprise! - androgens and anabolics. This is also the reason why STH, when taken alone, is considerably less effective and can only reach its optimum effect by the additive intake of steroids, thyroid hormones, and insulin, in particular. But we must point out in this case that STH has a predominately anabolic effect. There are three hormones which are needed at the same time in order to allow for maximum anabolic effect. These are STH, insulin, and an LT-3 thyroid hormone, such as, for example, Cytomel. Only then can the liver produce and release an optimal amount of somatomedin and insulin-like growth factors. This anabolic effect can be further enhanced by taking a substance with an anticatabolic effect. These substances are---everybody should probably know by now-anabolic/androgenic steroids or Clenbuterol. Then a synergetic effect takes place. Are you still wondering why pro bodybuilders are so incredibly massive but, at the same time, totally ripped while you are not? It is "Polypharmacy at its finest," as W Nathaniel Phillips described to the point in his bookAnabolic Reference Guide (5th Issue, 1990). But coming back once more to the "anabolic formula": STH, insulin, and L-T3. Most athletes have tried STH during preparation for a competition in that phase when the diet is calorie-reduced. The body usually reacts by reducing the release of insulin and of the L- T3 thyroid hormone. And, as was described under point 2, this is not an advantageous condition when STH is expected to work well. Well, we almost forgot. Those who combine Clenbuterol with STH should know that Clenbuterol (like Ephedrine) reduces the body's own release of insulin and L-T3. True, this seems a little complicated and when reading it for the first time it might be a little confusing; however it really is true: STH has a significant influence on several hormones in the human body; this does not allow for a simple ad-ministration schedule. As said, STH is not cheap and those who intend to use it should know a little more about it. If you only want to burn fat with STH you will only have to remember user infor-mation for the part with the L-T3 thyroid hormone as is printed by Kabi Pharmacia GmbH for their compound Genotropin: "The need of the thyroid hormone often increases during treatment with growth hormones. "

3. Since most athletes who want to use STH can only obtain it if prescribed by a physician, the only supply source remains the black market. And this is certainly another reason why some athletes might not have been very happy with the effect of the purchased com-pound. How could he, if cheap HCG was passed off as expensive STH? Since both compounds are available as dry substances, all that would be needed is a new label of Serono's Saizen or Lilly's Humatrope on the HCG ampule. It is no longer fun when somebody is paying $200 for 5000 I.U. of HCG, only worth $12, and thinking that he just purchased 4 I.U. of STH. And if you think this happens only to novices and to the ignorant, ask Ben Johnson. "Big Ben," who during three tests within five days showed an above-limit testosterone level, was not a victim of his own stupidity but more likely the victim of fraud. 'According to statistics by the German Drug Administration, 42% of the HGH vials confiscated on the North American black market are fakes." (Der Spiegel, no. 11, 1993.) One can only say, "Poor Ben." Even Deutsche Apothekerzeitung is aware of this problem. The magazine wrote in its issue no. 26 of 07/01/93 in the article "Wachstumshormon--Praparate: Arzneimittelf5lschungen in Bodybuilder-Szene": "The currently-known cases are traded with Dutch or Russian labels... in addition to a display of labels in the Dutch or Russian lan-guage the fakes are distinguished from the original product, in-sofar as the dry substance is not present as lyophilic but present as loose powder. The fakes confiscated so far use the name "Humatrope 16" under the name of Lilly Company (with Dutch denomination) or "Somatogen" (in Russian)." Nowhere can this much money be made except by faking STH. Who has ever held original growth hormones in his hand and known how.they should look?

4. In a few very rare cases the body reacts by developing-antibodies to the exogenous STH, thus making it ineffective.

Before discussing the extremely difficult matter of dosage and intake the following question suggests itself: Generally speaking who is taking growth hormones? A whole lot of athletes as the following quotation suggests: "Charlie Francis, the Canadian athletic trainer of Ben Johnson tells how he improved the performance of Ben and numerous other Olympic athletes by the use of growth hormones in 1983. Francis also had conclusive evidence that the U.S.-American field and track athletes were using growth hormones. In a 1989 interview with a pro bodybuilder, an interview not meant for publication, this massive athlete made clear that he was convinced that almost all professional top athletes were using Protropin. He also said that it did not bother him if the IFBB were to introduce doping tests for men in 1990 as long as there would be no testing for growth hormones (Anabolic Reference Update, June 1989, no. 11). "it is highly suspected that the top Ms. 0 competitors use this product to help them attain their incredibly rippled muscles while still looking like women." (Anabolic Reference Guide, 5th Issue, 1990, W N. Phillips.) Most top bodybuilders using Growth Hormone (GH) feel that insulin activates it. One top pro was rumored to have been using 12 I. U. of GH per day in preparation for his last WBF contest. He swears that GH only works with insulin." (Muscle Media 2000 ' October/ November 1993, no. 34.)" And shortly before the 1984 Olympic Games in Los Angeles, U.S. researchers succeeded in synthetically manufacturing the hormone. This hormone which cannot be detected with current testing methods immediately prepared American athletes throughout the country for the games in California. After reports of success the drug became the secret runner on the doping market. The football pro Lyle Alzado, who died of brain tumor, shortly before his death confessed that he had taken HGH for 16 weeks - and he claimed that 80% of all American football pros do so, too. Ben Johnson, who in 1988 in Seoul was caught with anabolics, admitted to the investigating committee of the Canadian government that he had tried the Growth Hormone. He had paid $ 10,000 for ten bottles of HGH. According to Johnson, his physician, George Astaphan, had also designed programs for his colleagues Mark McKoy, Angella Issajenko, and Desai Williams. Hurdle sprinter Juli Rochelean who toddy runs records for Switzerland under the name Baumann procured HGH on the black market of the bodybuilder scene in Montreal... Among women Gail Devers won the 100 meters (1992 Olympic Games in Barcelona, the auth.) after havingjust overcome a severe thyroid condition, a well-known side effect of taking HGH. Such suspicions are reinforced by current market data. The two U.S. companies Genentech and Eli Lilly produced about 800 million dollars of HGH in 1992. Genentech alone reported an eleven percent production increase compared to last year. Chemists incessantly emphasize that the drug should only be manufactured for use by persons with stunted growth. The U.S.Food and Drug Administration, however, sees it differently: the U.S. government currently includes HGH on the list of forbidden drugs and 'threatens up to five years of,prison for illegal possession of the drug." (Der Spiegel, no. I I of 03/15/93). "Many of the top strength athletes use HGH and the cost of its use ran as high as $30,000/year for one particular pro bodybuilder. Short term users (8 week duration) will spend up to $150 per daily dosage. And because the top athletes are rumored to use it, HGH lust in the lower ranks has become more rampant." (Daniel Duchaine, Underground Steroid Handbook 2.)

[Fixr]

great post Thunderin. thanks

[pip_squeek]

absoultely sensational post thunderin. i wasnt thinking of running it alone anyway will most likely combine it with decca and sust250 and in this case definately will be adding insulin. will do much more reasearch on it though i just wanted to find out about those freaky sides of bone groowth. if i add GH to a cycle of test and decca which i will not be running it for more than 10-12 weeks how many weeks before or after must i add the Gh to the cycle and ofcourse insulin

[akrosmegas]

GH Causing Acromeglia:

Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it. [/B]

GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:

Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth.

had acr*****ly, sides you here about are true, some happen early, some take 30 yrs. gh gut maybe a reality.

[GoingPro]

absoultely sensational post thunderin. i wasnt thinking of running it alone anyway will most likely combine it with decca and sust250 and in this case definately will be adding insulin. will do much more reasearch on it though i just wanted to find out about those freaky sides of bone groowth. if i add GH to a cycle of test and decca which i will not be running it for more than 10-12 weeks how many weeks before or after must i add the Gh to the cycle and ofcourse insulin

Add the the GH two weeks in.

[Lexed]

very good read

[jerseyboy]

had acr*****ly, sides you here about are true, some happen early, some take 30 yrs. gh gut maybe a reality.

What do you mean "had acr*****ly"? You would need to do outrageous doses of gh to get acr*****ly and it is permanent.

[akrosmegas]

What do you mean "had acr*****ly"? You would need to do outrageous doses of gh to get acr*****ly and it is permanent.

means I had it-past tense-had surgery and radiation therapy for pituitary tumor, igf-1 was triple normal level for age-matched adults, and ya, gh was outrageous, but not because i was doing doses. estimate it started about 30 yrs before i finally went to doctors to find out what was screwing me up. now I'm GH defficient.

[fossilfuel7]

means I had it-past tense-had surgery and radiation therapy for pituitary tumor, igf-1 was triple normal level for age-matched adults, and ya, gh was outrageous, but not because i was doing doses. estimate it started about 30 yrs before i finally went to doctors to find out what was screwing me up. now I'm GH defficient.

I'm curious to know what side effects besides acr*****ly did that have on you over the course of your life??

[akrosmegas]

I'm curious to know what side effects besides acr*****ly did that have on you over the course of your life??

stuff like shoes went from 10D to 11.5 5E, heat intolerant (fate had me living in Phoenix at time of dx), cardio endurance not great, bite doesn't line up, but bad arthritis is what sent me to the doctors (one artificial hip so far), bone spurs, etc. maybe gh gut but not sure I know what it looks like. Anyway, a lot don't get off so easy.

[fossilfuel7]

stuff like shoes went from 10D to 11.5 5E, heat intolerant (fate had me living in Phoenix at time of dx), cardio endurance not great, bite doesn't line up, but bad arthritis is what sent me to the doctors (one artificial hip so far), bone spurs, etc. maybe gh gut but not sure I know what it looks like. Anyway, a lot don't get off so easy.

Sorry to hear about that man.

Arthritis seems like a weird one though considerig that people use it for recovery/joint injuries.

[akrosmegas]

just way too much of a good thing.