Test & Eq Halflife Charts

[jugger-nutz]

OK, I've been trying to plan a cycle w/ Test Enth and Eq, but I've found lots of theories as to when to inject and where. Is it better to inject once a week or twice, etc. I've also read that injecting in the glutes cuts the drugs halflife in half, vs injecting in the delts/quads/etc. Can you guys confirm that, cause the following analysis is based on that assumption.

So out of frustration, I decided to plug the halflife formulas into excel and study for myself blood levels during and after a cycle. What I found was enlightening.

The following chart is the Test Enth, based on a halflife of 10days injected in the delts (5 day halflife when injected in the glutes, assuming thats right). It also compares injecting 500mg every 7 days vs 250 every 3.5 days. No frontloading was assumed. Days are on the bottom, mgs are on the left.



So clearly, injecting in glutes every 7 days is a roller coaster ride, with 60mg swings thruout the week. Injecting instead in the delts is a bit more steady, but the increased halflife means the drug lingers much longer after the cycle. Every 3.5days in the glutes leaves the system quickly at the end, but still has 30mg swings thruout the week. 3.5 days in the delts is clearly the most stable, but again lingers afterwards.

The chart for Eq is similar, with the lingering effects even more pronounced, since it has a halflife of 14 days (in the delts):



So, if the goal is to have blood levels stay fairly stable thru a cycle, and to flush out of the system as quickly as possible, I started to tweak the numbers to try and accomplish that goal. Here's the best scenario I could come up with:



And here are the numbers it took to make that happen:



Obviously I setup injections every 3.5 days. I also frontloaded the first couple weeks to get the levels up quickly. The first 6-7 weeks were in the delts to take advantage of the steadier dispersal into the bloodstream. Then I switched to glutes to take advantage of the quicker halflife once the cycle ended. Interestingly, I had to drop the dosage during that switch from delts to glutes to avoid a big surge on the graphs.

Let me know what you guys think of this analysis, as I have yet to actually do a cycle.

[Civic0]

You have some good ideas in regards to the chemistry and science of anabolics. You need to do MORE research tho... EQ, if you read up on, is a weak steroid; thus any user should consider running the substance for at least 12 weeks. If you are to pyrimid the way shown, it is just a waste of $, time, and energy. Suggestion- Run test E or cyp for 12 weeks......

500 mg's -test
400 mg's-eq

straight thru, if u want to taper off then do so at the end of the cycle, say on week 10 bring the cyp down 400- then 300- then 100

Do the same with the EQ-but don't taper off too much, maybe on the last 1.5-2 weeks...You have to run it with test or else your hormones will shut down, causing unwanted sides....

I don't understand what you got going on towards the end of your cycle-going up and down, that's just unheard of and something only a fool would do. DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST!

A wise man once said "if you're going to do something-anything-DO IT RIGHT"

[jugger-nutz]

I have been doing research, for many months. Problem is, everyones got a different opinion on when & how much to inject. How can anyone, even an experienced user, possibly know how much juice is in their system thruout a cycle? I was looking for emperical data demonstrating blood levels, but couldn't find much. Even graphs illustrating halflifes are hard to come by.

I trust the math over anyone's gut feel. However, I dont trust my model yet. I really need confirmation that injecting in the glutes cuts halflife in half. I've only read a couple sources saying this, and am unsure. The logic is that the ester is delivered to the bloodstream faster than other muscles like the delts/quads/etc.

Does anyone have a reliable source discussing the injection site's affect on halflife?

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

Your graphs, while informative, are purely academic. There are many variables you have not taken into consideration. But in any case, interesting to see.

cheers

[Civic0]

ok, so don't listen to me, do your cycle and enjoy NO GAINS. Take care!

[Civic0]

I have been doing research, for many months. Problem is, everyones got a different opinion on when & how much to inject. How can anyone, even an experienced user, possibly know how much juice is in their system thruout a cycle? I was looking for emperical data demonstrating blood levels, but couldn't find much. Even graphs illustrating halflifes are hard to come by.

I trust the math over anyone's gut feel. However, I dont trust my model yet. I really need confirmation that injecting in the glutes cuts halflife in half. I've only read a couple sources saying this, and am unsure. The logic is that the ester is delivered to the bloodstream faster than other muscles like the delts/quads/etc.

Does anyone have a reliable source discussing the injection site's affect on halflife?

How will they know how much juice is in their system? It's called looking at the bottle and being able to read the MG dosage.

[skank]

Juggernutz, I like the graphs and all the work you did. Some interesting results. Especially with the varied half lives from injection point. The front loading I agree with. After that a steady dose every 3.5 days is what I would do for 12 weeks. The manipulating of doses and injection points near the end of the cycle is interesting but complicated. I say keep it simple. Good work though!

[jugger-nutz]

ok, so don't listen to me, do your cycle and enjoy NO GAINS. Take care!

Civic, I wasnt attacking you or your advice. I have no doubt that 500mg/wk works, and I'd make gains, and its simple. But from the analysis I've done so far, the timing and location of the injections seem to have a big effect on how steadily that 500mg is dispersed thru the week. You can see on the first chart, injecting once a week in the butt results in wild swings, ranging from 100mg the day of the shot to 50mg by weeks end. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think its better to maintain steady blood levels as much as possible.

Theres also a big effect on how much test lingers after the last shot. If injecting in the delts vs in the butt means the difference between having 7mgs left in week 15 vs almost none, isn't that worth discussing?

[Civic0]

you got me there....yes, absolutley worth discussingg my mann

[jugger-nutz]

Still havent found a clinical trial confirming this, but I did find yet another site discussing the idea of halflife being halved when injecting in the glutes:

http://www.powerboard.se/roidcalc/

Interesting site. The numbers it spits out seem to jive with my chart, so I'm feeling more comfortable with my analysis.

Seems like few people worry about where they inject and halflives, but it really does seem to be important. If you can flush out the Test 5 weeks faster just by switching to glute injections, why not?

[Njord]

I don't buy the half life difference in glute vs delt shots for one second. Are there any medical studies online that show this? I can image that the is a slight difference in absorbtion rates due to varying muscle tissue, size and bodyfat %. But find it hard to belive it would be varying as much as 5 days.

[LmbrJak]

Heres one that I found for nandrolone, shows glute and delt shots
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/co...ll/281/1/93/F1

if you want more stable blood levels shoot ED

[AnabolicBoy1981]

it seems the bigger shot has a higher crest, but it also has a lower dive. Side effects and more even muscle gain would be achived through bi weekly.
The delt shots are ok, but thigh and glute seem to rain superior as far as max blood level. Take a look at the crest and dive of a bi weekly glute shot and the crest and dive of a biweekly delt shot . While the delt shot doest dive as much as the glute shot, the glute shot's crest is proporionatly higher than the glute shots dive, in relation to the delt shots dive.

maybe i make no sense...but i get me

[LmbrJak]

The graph I posted also shows that concentration also affects half life [4ml vs 1ml]

Alot of factors affect half life, varies person to person taking more than one drug etc

Even your natural hormone levels fluctuate through the day. Heres what one doctor said
Well, I <i>am</i> a doctor, as well as a parent of an autistic 7 year old, and highly commend you on your excellent description of uptake and distribution, pharmacokinetics (what the body does to the drug), and establishing a dose-response curve (for finding the lowest effective dose). The only thing I would add to your excellent post is that published data on half lives of drugs is an approximation based on large populations of individuals. These published half lives are good to "get you in the ballpark" when figuring how long you need to wait to see results (most drugs take 5 half lives to reach a "steady state", though one usually sees results before that time). But in each individual, the half life of a particular drug may be shorter or longer somewhat, ***ending on what other drugs a person is taking, their individual metabolism, and whether they are taking two different drugs that are competing for the same metabolic pathway. As parents, my wife and I have struggled with these same questions about drugs, and I must say that it's most difficult to wait for those long half life drugs, as you've described. I think you've described how to utilize drugs as a tool far better in your post than I could ever attempt to do. Way to go

[jugger-nutz]

Interesting find. If you just compare the 1ml doses, there definitely does seem to be a 2x difference between delts and glutes, at least initially.

And yeah, I agree with you Lmbr that this is all approximation, since exact halflife varies between people. I'm just shooting for a good model before I start the cycle. I think I've researched this to death and am prepared finally. I'm going to leave out the Eq, and do Test only for this first cycle, just to establish a baseline to compare any future cycles to.

I plan to frontload, and start my first 7 weeks in the delts, to take advantage of the more stable dispersal into the bloodstream. Then I'll switch to glutes to take advantage of the reduced halflife when the cycle is over. Not sure if I'll finese the dosage during that switch, or just stick to 250 shots. If I stick to 250, here's what the graph looks like:



Notice the big spike around week 7 as the glute shots start dispersing quickly before the slower delt shots have fully been absorbed. Problem is, the amps are 250, so any less is a waste. I think I'll just keep the dose steady, knowing that my blood levels are probably higher during those last weeks. Will be an interesting experiment anyway to see how my body reacts to the higher levels.

[pr0digalsun]

Does anyone have a reliable source discussing the injection site's affect on halflife?

the absorbtion rate in the gluteus is slower than in any other muscle. i would think that would increase the half life.

here are two articles from the googles, the uspharmacist is the best of the two.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_n17209134
http://www.uspharmacist.com/index.as...54/default.htm

[jugger-nutz]

Crap! Conflicting data. Good find Prod.

I wonder if ester based injections would be opposite of aqueous based. Wouldn't think so. I buy the fact that increased bloodflow increases the rate of absorption. But does it seem logical that theres more bloodflow thru the butt than the delts? I guess it ***ends on what you're doin with it.