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Thread: Australia's Stand

  1. #1
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    Australia's Stand

    Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told
    on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted
    radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

    A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty
    to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John
    Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a
    crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard,
    hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if
    they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws
    were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a
    country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is
    not for you", he said on National Television.


    "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two
    laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another
    Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law,
    independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the
    opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then,
    that's a better option", Costello said.


    Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave,
    he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to
    the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told
    reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should
    "clear off".
    "Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who
    don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then,
    they can basically clear off", he said.


    Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday
    by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

    Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or
    Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
    offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks
    on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of
    Australians."


    "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the
    'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that
    our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor
    do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming
    to Australia .." "However, there are a few things that those who have
    recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to
    understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community
    has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And
    as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own
    language and our own lifestyle."

    "This culture has been developed over two centuries of
    struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have
    sought freedom"


    "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic,
    Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you
    wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!"

    "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian,
    right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women,
    on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly
    documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of
    our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another
    part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."


    "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we
    ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment
    with us."

    "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair
    Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
    planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and
    we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all
    means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

    "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will
    allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done
    complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
    Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take
    advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

    'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."



    "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to
    come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

  2. #2
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    John Howard sounds like a strong leader.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06
    John Howard sounds like a strong leader.
    He is a great leader and his positions will help keep Australia safe and Australia's culture intact. Hell, if the dems take-over, I may find myself down-under with other normal, clear-thinking people.........

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    Wow. Sounds like the kind of ideals that America used to stand for.....

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    [QUOTE=Logan13]He is a great leader and his positions will help keep Australia safe and Australia's culture intact. Hell, if the dems take-over, I may find myself down-under with other normal, clear-thinking people.........[/QUOTE]

    ....GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!

  6. #6
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    I'm all for everything he said except the Christian thing. Other than that, more power to the Aussies!

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    Makes you wish you were Australian

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    Not really... not the way they treat Aborigines. But every country has their good and bad qualities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    Not really... not the way they treat Aborigines. But every country has their good and bad qualities.
    do tell........... they are in control of more land then spain and france combined, they get free housing, education, free loans, free medical, they get paid to do nothing, there is no incentive to work.
    they have every opportunity i do plus more, how is our current day govenment treating them bad id really like to know.
    alot of the above speach was not said by john howard, although i wish it was. it sounds like an extract from someones article. where did you find this?
    also this was stated by peter costello about a year ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by auslifta
    do tell........... they are in control of more land then spain and france combined, they get free housing, education, free loans, free medical, they get paid to do nothing, there is no incentive to work.
    they have every opportunity i do plus more, how is our current day govenment treating them bad id really like to know.
    alot of the above speach was not said by john howard, although i wish it was. it sounds like an extract from someones article. where did you find this?
    also this was stated by peter costello about a year ago.

    Telling...

    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/24/087.html
    http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-AUS
    http://www.alemarati.net/study/Discrimination.htm

    Not to mention the new law to outlaw alcohol and pornography in lands lived on predominantly by Aborigines because of crimes supposedly exclusive to them.

    Kinda reminds me of the treatment the Native Americans had to endure at the hands of the US government for years.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    He is a great leader and his positions will help keep Australia safe and Australia's culture intact. Hell, if the dems take-over, I may find myself down-under with other normal, clear-thinking people.........
    He has done great things for Oz, unfortunately he will lose the next election at the end of the year

  12. #12
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    those 3 links says that they have a higher % of their population in jail, that is because they commit more crimes, its the same with arabic people. you dont send people to jail based on the breakup of a community. its by crimes you commit.
    the new laws that were introduced in the past 3 months to outlaw alcohol and porn were pushed by aboriginal leaders in the cape region and areas of nothern territory. they are in place because of sexually abuse on aboriginal children, it is seen as a right to have sex with girls and boys from the ages of 10 and up by men in these communities and it needs to stop. of men aged between ages of 18-25 were surveyed, 70% were sexually assulted between the ages 10 and 16.
    all girls thats 100%, surveyed were sexually assulted by the age 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joemeek
    Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told
    on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted
    radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

    A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty
    to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John
    Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a
    crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard,
    hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if
    they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws
    were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a
    country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is
    not for you", he said on National Television.


    "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two
    laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another
    Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law,
    independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the
    opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then,
    that's a better option", Costello said.


    Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave,
    he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to
    the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told
    reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should
    "clear off".
    "Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who
    don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then,
    they can basically clear off", he said.


    Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday
    by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

    Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or
    Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
    offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks
    on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of
    Australians."


    "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the
    'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that
    our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor
    do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming
    to Australia .." "However, there are a few things that those who have
    recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to
    understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community
    has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And
    as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own
    language and our own lifestyle."

    "This culture has been developed over two centuries of
    struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have
    sought freedom"


    "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic,
    Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you
    wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!"

    "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian,
    right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women,
    on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly
    documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of
    our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another
    part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."


    "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we
    ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment
    with us."

    "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair
    Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
    planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and
    we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all
    means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

    "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will
    allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done
    complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
    Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take
    advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

    'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."



    "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to
    come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

    We need someone like that running the UK.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    Telling...

    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/24/087.html
    http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-AUS
    http://www.alemarati.net/study/Discrimination.htm

    Not to mention the new law to outlaw alcohol and pornography in lands lived on predominantly by Aborigines because of crimes supposedly exclusive to them.

    Kinda reminds me of the treatment the Native Americans had to endure at the hands of the US government for years.
    http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/conte...7/s1977012.htm
    this is the reason for intervention

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=BgMc31]
    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    He is a great leader and his positions will help keep Australia safe and Australia's culture intact. Hell, if the dems take-over, I may find myself down-under with other normal, clear-thinking people.........[/QUOTE]

    ....GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!
    I could still keep you on the straight and narrow from down under.......

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by auslifta
    those 3 links says that they have a higher % of their population in jail, that is because they commit more crimes, its the same with arabic people. you dont send people to jail based on the breakup of a community. its by crimes you commit.
    the new laws that were introduced in the past 3 months to outlaw alcohol and porn were pushed by aboriginal leaders in the cape region and areas of nothern territory. they are in place because of sexually abuse on aboriginal children, it is seen as a right to have sex with girls and boys from the ages of 10 and up by men in these communities and it needs to stop. of men aged between ages of 18-25 were surveyed, 70% were sexually assulted between the ages 10 and 16.
    all girls thats 100%, surveyed were sexually assulted by the age 15.

    You don't read very well do you, the 3 links mention much more than their higher than average jail population. Go back and read them in their entirety.

    As for the recent outlaw of alcohol and porn the recent world wide child pornagraphy bust lead to many of the arrest in Sydney by non-aboriginals, you don't see porn being banned in Sydney do you?

    No matter how you look at it, Australia has a history of discrimination against it's native population, you cannot deny nor justify it. Plain and simple.

  17. #17
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    its called a history for a reason....its in the past. Dont get me started on mistreatment on natives in North America.
    Ok so your saying the stand the Government is making is a wrong one, that this should be ok for children to be molested. Please.
    No i didnt read the articles in entirety. they state history that has no relevence in the treatment of them now, they need to take action and start to help their own communities with the assisstance they already receive from the government . the Government does not mistreat them in any way, they have more benefits then i do.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by auslifta
    its called a history for a reason....its in the past. Dont get me started on mistreatment on natives in North America.
    Ok so your saying the stand the Government is making is a wrong one, that this should be ok for children to be molested. Please.
    No i didnt read the articles in entirety. they state history that has no relevence in the treatment of them now, they need to take action and start to help their own communities with the assisstance they already receive from the government . the Government does not mistreat them in any way, they have more benefits then i do.

    If you read the articles in their entirety you will see the amount of discrimination that still exists today.

    Yes, I'm saying the governments stand is a wrong one. It would be right if they outlawed porn and alcohol all over Australia not just Aboriginal areas. It's obvious that, although the may commit a disproportionate amount of the molestations, they aren't the only ones committing the crimes. It's happening in every segment of society, your's (Australia) and our's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    If you read the articles in their entirety you will see the amount of discrimination that still exists today.

    Yes, I'm saying the governments stand is a wrong one. It would be right if they outlawed porn and alcohol all over Australia not just Aboriginal areas. It's obvious that, although the may commit a disproportionate amount of the molestations, they aren't the only ones committing the crimes. It's happening in every segment of society, your's (Australia) and our's.
    Porn is outlawed across Australia in all of the States, just not in the Territories which is where the problem is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    If you read the articles in their entirety you will see the amount of discrimination that still exists today.

    Yes, I'm saying the governments stand is a wrong one.
    i read the articles in their entity and found no discrimination against aboriginals that doesnt exist to any other citizen. Would you like to highlight where it does and id gladly comment on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by auslifta
    i read the articles in their entity and found no discrimination against aboriginals that doesnt exist to any other citizen. Would you like to highlight where it does and id gladly comment on it.
    If aborigines were white in color, I doubt that he would have brought them up as an issue........

  22. #22
    Funny how the western countries-particularly US,Britain, Australia are always complaining that they don't want these dark skinned muslims coming over and imposing their culture, laws, religion on their secular state. (they complain about this after they let them in to live there ofcourse)

    But then they support Israel financially, militarily, and ideologically- which is a non-secular state that imposes "Jewish Law" on it's indeginous Palestinian population-Jewish law being that Palestinians have to be confned/enslaved into segregated bantustans with no politcal/human rights whatsoever. And white-skinned jewish Americans Britons and Australians often go there and engage in the oppresion personally.

    Then they go to this muslim country (which ironically had a secular govt to begin with) Iraq and impose their western parliamentary system on them, killing 700,000 and making 2,000,000 of them refugees in the process of this secularization imposition.

    And then it's back to complaining about muslims and how they're trying to impose their 'sharia law' on themselves when they come to live there because they were given residency visa to live and work there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joemeek
    Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told
    on Wednesday to get out of Australia , .................

    he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a
    crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard,
    hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if
    they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws
    were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a
    country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is
    not for you", he said on National Television.
    "

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    I am moving to Australia if a dem is elected into office.

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    On the subject of Aborigines and numbers of them in jails, I worked in the criminal justice field here in Oz for a number of years and have been pubished a few times in wanker left wing academic journals on the topic. Since then, my politics have completely changed. I am now Howard's greatest fan. What he has done in the Northern Territory is simply what had to be done.

    Its funny how people complain that Aboriginal people are over-represented in the criminal justice system, and then try to link that to deaths in custody - eg the Royal Commission Into Aboriginal Deaths In Custody in the late 1980s/early 1990s. What the statistics tell us, sadly, is that Aboriginal people are SAFER in jail. That's right - LESS LIKELY TO DIE than if they were not in jail. The Royal Commission's own statistics prove that, but they didn't want to say it because its too controversial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    If aborigines were white in color, I doubt that he would have brought them up as an issue........

    If the aborigines were white in color you would site this as an example of how whites are getting the short end these days. Again, Logan, you insist upon trying to paint me with your color. You're the bigot, not me. I stand up for any persons who are discriminated against, black, white, asian, gays, muslims, Jews, christians, etc.
    Last edited by BgMc31; 07-26-2007 at 12:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative
    I am moving to Australia if a dem is elected into office.

    Have a nice trip!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by auslifta
    i read the articles in their entity and found no discrimination against aboriginals that doesnt exist to any other citizen. Would you like to highlight where it does and id gladly comment on it.

    You and I must be reading completely different articles. It's obvious to me the level of discrimination Aborigines are subjected to in Australia. But I'm not going to try to convince you because it's obvious you don't see it or don't want to see it. So we will have to just agree to disagree.

    Like I said before, if the Australian public is behind this movement to force Muslims to conform to their way of life, then more power to them. Times change as do people so I just think the Australian government is opening up a slippery slope on this one.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    You and I must be reading completely different articles. It's obvious to me the level of discrimination Aborigines are subjected to in Australia. But I'm not going to try to convince you because it's obvious you don't see it or don't want to see it. So we will have to just agree to disagree.

    Like I said before, if the Australian public is behind this movement to force Muslims to conform to their way of life, then more power to them. Times change as do people so I just think the Australian government is opening up a slippery slope on this one.
    I don't see it Australians forcing Muslims to conform to their way of life. Australia is as Australia was. And they just aren't willing to conform to Muslims way of life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale
    Porn is outlawed across Australia in all of the States, just not in the Territories which is where the problem is.

    Please provide proof of this. I've been looking for evidence of this but can't find any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    If the aborigines were white in color you would site this as an example of how whites are getting the short end these days. Again, Logan, you insist upon trying to paint me with your color. You're the bigot, not me. I stand up for any persons who are discriminated against, black, white, asian, gays, muslims, Jews, christians, etc.
    Where were you when the Duke Lacross players were under scrutiny? You spoke out for the accuser, a black woman I might add...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    Please provide proof of this. I've been looking for evidence of this but can't find any.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...gion#Australia

    ACT refers to the Australian Capitol Territory which is where Canberra, the capitol of Australia is located. NT is the Northern Territory. Both are controlled by the Australian Federal Governments but also by elected local Gov'ts. The Feds dont have the same control over the States.
    Last edited by Kale; 07-27-2007 at 06:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    Where were you when the Duke Lacross players were under scrutiny? You spoke out for the accuser, a black woman I might add...........
    The duke lacrosse players weren't discriminated against, but wrongfully accused. Unlike you, I admitted my mistake in that case, so again, Mr. Bigot, stick to the topic. But if I spoke ill of those lacrosse players, please provide proof. As a matter of fact please provide proof of anything I said on that case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    The duke lacrosse players weren't discriminated against, but wrongfully accused. Unlike you, I admitted my mistake in that case, so again, Mr. Bigot, stick to the topic. But if I spoke ill of those lacrosse players, please provide proof. As a matter of fact please provide proof of anything I said on that case.
    What mistake did I not admit to? BTW, Vick's buddy cut a deal with the prosecution today..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31
    so again, Mr. Bigot, stick to the topic.
    Bg is the boy who cried Bigot..............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    Bg is the boy who cried Bigot..............

    If it walks like a duck....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    What mistake did I not admit to? BTW, Vick's buddy cut a deal with the prosecution today..........

    Too many to post! Anyway, it's Vick and the other two defendants against this guy who had a falling out with Vick 3yrs ago and is a noted ex-con.

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    unless you guys have grown up here in oz and understand and have seen first hand how the muslims are taking over bashing our kids for there jewellery,phones, money etc, raping our girls intimidating our elderly now unless you've experienced it first hand i suggest you keep your comments to yourself this is mainly aimed at you bgmc31. we accept all nationalities into our country and give them medical and welfare benefits, we are very multicultural! muslims have attempted to ban christmas decorations in our malls, christmas and religion based plays in our school. we will not put up with that!! but in saying that i will not paint them all with the same brush i have met some muslims who respect and love australia and are model citizens

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUSGYMJUNKIE
    unless you guys have grown up here in oz and understand and have seen first hand how the muslims are taking over bashing our kids for there jewellery,phones, money etc, raping our girls intimidating our elderly now unless you've experienced it first hand i suggest you keep your comments to yourself this is mainly aimed at you bgmc31. we accept all nationalities into our country and give them medical and welfare benefits, we are very multicultural! muslims have attempted to ban christmas decorations in our malls, christmas and religion based plays in our school. we will not put up with that!! but in saying that i will not paint them all with the same brush i have met some muslims who respect and love australia and are model citizens

    This is an open forum, I'll say what I want and if you don't like it, you can kiss my ass!!!!

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,506
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSGYMJUNKIE
    we accept all nationalities into our country and give them medical and welfare benefits, we are very multicultural! muslims have attempted to ban christmas decorations in our malls, christmas and religion based plays in our school.
    You know it's funny...

    That sounds EXACTLY like whats happenning here in Canada! I could pull hundreds of examples just in my area.

    Unfortunately unlike Australia, we just sit back and let it happen, and woe to you if you dare to say anything! If you have the nerve to say anything to protect our eroding culture, heritage and customs, you are labeled a bigot and get publicly crucified.

    Red

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