Whats better at preventing Gyno.. Nolva or letro?

[Billytk03z]

I know letro is great for trying to reduce estrogen fat and the start of existing gyno, but is Nolva better in general to prevent the start of gyno from ever happening since it prevents estro from attaching to the receptors?

[Merc..]

I know letro is great for trying to reduce estrogen fat and the start of existing gyno, but is Nolva better in general to prevent the start of gyno from ever happening since it prevents estro from attaching to the receptors?

Depends on what compounds your using of course ..


Billytk keep in mind that estrogen is usually the culprit behind gyno so using letro will lower your total estrogen level to a very low level so chances of gyno are greatly reduced. Remember no estro no qyno ( qyno needs estro to form).

Nolva will bind the receptor as you stated be really has no effect on lowering your estrogen ..

Nolva better ????

Like I said it depends on what compounds your using ( I wont use nolva with tren )

So say a guy plans on running a cycle his options are to start an AI ( in your case letro) at start of cycle all the way through. Or start nolva all the way through or just keep nolva on hand if nips get sensitive( itchy ) drop nolva until it subsides.

I guess what I am trying to say it will depend on the situation on what would be a better choice..

Merc

[pimpdawgin]

don't know my ass from my elbow, but it seems to be an unfair comparison. One is an AI, the other a SERM. Shouldn't a PCT, or any gyno prevention, involve at least one AI and one SERM. That's what I have read, and it seems to make sense. But then again I am a total rookie, and have yet to do one cycle or PCT, for that matter.
Plus, doesn't letro have an estrogen rebound effect? I've read about it and that scares the hell out of me.

[2deizel]

imo letro is pretty harsh just to prevent gyno, alot of ppl use letro to reverse gyno and nolva tp prevent it.

[Kratos]

If you aren't using a 19-nor nolva should be sufficient but not superior. I prefer the idea of running a low dose of AI like arimidex to keep estrogen from getting too high rather than mask it with a serm. Letro is the strongest thing you could possibly take for gyno prevention, hence the reason it works for gyno reversal in some people.

[Billytk03z]

the problem is Im at crossroads right now.....

I know I developed the start of mild gyno (puffy left pec, with small pea size nodules) bout 8 months ago which I know came from the finasteride.

since I am taking bout 600mg test/wk and using finasteride 1mg/ed.. I know my estro will shoot sky high.... so I need something to keep that in check.. my nips have been sensitive for the past 2 weeks... adex did nothing to help..

the dilemma is that if I use nolva it will prevent estro from attaching to the receptors but I will have a shit load of estro floating around my body causing bloat and all the nasty sides that come with elevated estro...

wtf to do???? this is frustrating

[vitor]

Use either letro or aromasin, and you will have no problems with estrogen...

[Merc..]

Use either letro or aromasin, and you will have no problems with estrogen...

^^^^

Right on

Good post Vitor!!!



Merc.

[ODC0717]

Go with letro IMO, and use aromasin with nolva PCT. Using letro with nolva reduces the amount of total nolva in your system, rendering the nolva basically useless. For my cycles, I use adex at .50mg ED, but once I'm done with the 2 vials I've got, I'm going to letro and aromasin all day.

[kfrost06]

the dilemma is that if I use nolva it will prevent estro from attaching to the receptors but I will have a shit load of estro floating around my body causing bloat and all the nasty sides that come with elevated estro...

wtf to do???? this is frustrating

Agreed w/Votior but you also have to remember, Nolva is an estrogen and it binds to the exact same receptors as estrogen and in most cases activates once bound. However, when it binds to the mammory glands it never activates. The good thing about nolva seems to be the part you fear. You need estrogen, it's good for you. If you suffer from excessive bloating then you will need an AI to decrease estrogen.

[Merc..]

Go with letro IMO, and use aromasin with nolva PCT. Using letro with nolva reduces the amount of total nolva in your system, rendering the nolva basically useless. For my cycles, I use adex at .50mg ED, but once I'm done with the 2 vials I've got, I'm going to letro and aromasin all day.

Please remember than nolva only makes type 2 AI's less effective (Lowers the blood plasma levels of type 2 AI's .)

So for instance a type-1 AI doesn't need to be present to continue doing its job on the aromatase enzyme , unlike a type 2 AI which is partially eliminated by the nolva and needs to be present to continue it's aromatase inhibition. Once a type -1 AI does its job the enzyme it attached to is useless...


Merc.

[Merc..]

Agreed w/Votior but you also have to remember, Nolva is an estrogen and it binds to the exact same receptors as estrogen and in most cases activates once bound. However, when it binds to the mammory glands it never activates. The good thing about nolva seems to be the part you fear. You need estrogen, it's good for you. If you suffer from excessive bloating then you will need an AI to decrease estrogen.

Good post K frost...

Many people forget that estrogen is somewhat anabolic..


Merc.

[bigboomer]

good info in here guys thanks

[magic32]

Nolva is an estrogen and it binds to the exact same receptors as estrogen and in most cases activates once bound. However, when it binds to the mammory glands it never activates. .

Nolva is a synthetic estrogen, thus there is NO estrogenial activity on the mammary gland.

Use either letro or aromasin, and you will have no problems with estrogen...

TYPICALLY, but this is not always the case and also depends on the compounds used. For example, I know someone who religiously administers Aromasin throughout cycles, but recently developed a pre-gyno mass under the left nipple during a Test E/Tren E/Var/Aromasin cycle, and is now beginning Letro anti-gyno protocol.
----------
Billy,

Your assessment makes sense but Nolva can be counter productive during cycle because as Kfrost cited, some estrogen binding is good for the cycle and Nolva (preferred by the receptors) prevents this. Thus during cycle you're best off with a mild AI unless a stronger becomes warranted, or very small amount of Letro. Serms, unless AI's are not available, are best saved for PCT.

[Merc..]

Nolva is a synthetic estrogen, thus there is NO estrogenial activity on the mammary gland.


TYPICALLY, but this is not always the case and also depends on the compounds used. For example, I know someone who religiously administers Aromasin throughout cycles, but recently developed a pre-gyno mass under the left nipple during a Test E/Tren E/Var/Aromasin cycle, and is now beginning Letro anti-gyno protocol.
----------
Billy,

Your assessment makes sense but Nolva can be counter productive during cycle because as Kfrost cited, some estrogen binding is good for the cycle and Nolva (preferred by the receptors) prevents this. Thus during cycle you're best off with a mild AI unless a stronger becomes warranted, or very small amount of Letro. Serms, unless AI's are not available, are best saved for PCT.

Nice Magic 32

You are right as always .. I am reffering to your correct statement >>>>> Nolva is a synthetic estrogen, thus there is NO estrogenial activity on the mammary gland.



I missed that I have to take care to read every word in the post.. Plus begin monday morning doent help.... Not making excuses what can I say your on top of your game monday moring or not . LOL

Thanks

Merc

[Merc..]

PM sent magic 32


Merc

[vitor]

For those who are gyno-prone:
If youre having a progestin in your cycle, you want to use letro, as it has been proven in studies to downgrade the progesterone recepter, so there will be far less pgr resepters for the matabolites for tren, deca, etc to bind to...Decareasing estrogen levels as effectively as letro does will also make prolactin alot less harmful(caber might be a good idea anyway).

If only using compunds that aromataze to estrogen(w/o progestin activity) aromasin should be sufficent...

For Billy, I would use letro now since you already have gyno, now you will be very sensitive for gyno flare-ups in the future aswell, unless you get the surgery...

[magic32]

PM sent magic 32
Merc

Got it.

And no problem, Kfrost is right as usual, he just spoke in a possibly confusing manner that required a little clarification.

And Vitor...Ha! I can't say enough about the guy, he's just great.

Keep up the good work Merc, it's noticed!

[magic32]

For those who are gyno-prone:
If youre having a progestin in your cycle, you want to use letro, as it has been proven in studies to downgrade the progesterone recepter, so there will be far less pgr resepters for the matabolites for tren, deca, etc to bind to...Decareasing estrogen levels as effectively as letro does will also make prolactin alot less harmful(caber might be a good idea anyway).

If only using compunds that aromataze to estrogen(w/o progestin activity) aromasin should be sufficent...

For Billy, I would use letro now since you already have gyno, now you will be very sensitive for gyno flare-ups in the future aswell, unless you get the surgery...

Definite yes!

But don't just start it, aggressively attack it:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ighlight=cbino

[Merc..]

Got it.

And no problem, Kfrost is right as usual, he just spoke in a possibly confusing manner that required a little clarification.

And Vitor...Ha! I can't say enough about the guy, he's just great.

Keep up the good work Merc, it's noticed!

Thanks Magic !!!


Merc

[kfrost06]

Got it.

And no problem, Kfrost is right as usual, he just spoke in a possibly confusing manner that required a little clarification.

To clarify see the attached diagrams. Of course Nolva is a synthetic estrogen just as anabolic steroids are sythetic testosterones.



As shown in the comparison diagrams the anti-estrogen(nolva)(btw it's not actually an anti-e but thats another story) acts and binds like the estrogen but in the breast tissue it will not activate therefore it binds up the receptor preventing your estrogen from binding to it.

[Merc..]

To clarify see the attached diagrams. Of course Nolva is a synthetic estrogen just as anabolic steroids are sythetic testosterones.



As shown in the comparison diagrams the anti-estrogen(nolva)(btw it's not actually an anti-e but thats another story) acts and binds like the estrogen but in the breast tissue it will not activate therefore it binds up the receptor preventing your estrogen from binding to it.

Kfrost You know we know you know your Shit man. Dam thats a mouthful LOL...






Merc

[kfrost06]

Further more, the SERMs still act like estrogen in most of the sites, i.e. it binds to all ERs(estrogen receptors) just like estrogen only in some will the co-activator not bind hence the name SERM, Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. Here's another diagram

[kfrost06]

Kfrost You know we know you know your Shit man. Dam thats a mouthful LOL...






Merc

Thanks Merc, I wasn't sure you knew that I knew you knew what I was talking about but now I know you know that I know and everyone knows that I know....wait I am lost