are pro hormones just copies of steroids

[sitries]

just recently a few of my m8s have tried these PHs and pro steroids. iv heard of M1T, methl drol, halodrol 50, halovar, superdrol, amongst a shit load of others. basically, i want to know what these compounds are compared to real steroids?? are they clones or copies of real steroids?? so for example is haladrol 50 a copy of oral turinabol and is M1T a copy of test?? if so which ones are the 19nors etc???

The reason im asking is that im interested in kick starting my next cycle with one of these PHs. iv heard ppl gain 12lbs in 2 weeks on this stuff with no sides!!????

what are the side effects of these compounds like??? im mainly worried about the possibility of androgenic sides. The reason im opting to kick start with a PH is 1. i dont want to risk losing my hair by using something like dbol and 2. Im intrigued to give the PHs a go.

anyway - i know its a long post and iv asked shit loads of Qs but i just wana get to the bottom of this 1. cheers - s

[basshead69]

PH are a waste of money they are not clones of steroids they are a bunch of garbage with the word anabolic on the bottle save your money

[Dagron]

The anabolic or androgenic activity from these compounds is laughable compared to even a severely low dosed cycle of test, yet they are severely liver toxic. You'll spend more money on liver cleansers than you will the actual PH. I wouldn't recommend any of them.

[Atomini]

Don't use prohormones. If you're going to use PH, then just go and do straight steroids.

Prohormones are basically half-completed chemical structure of various steroids. Prohormones force your liver to complete the chemical structure of the steroid that you're taking, and that places a ton of stress on the liver and your liver values will skyrocket far higher than any oral steroid would do. You're better off injecting/ingesting straight hormones into your body than do the prohormone junk.

You also get worse side effects with prohormones and less results than steroids, so to sum it up:

Prohormones = side effects and more destruction on your body (especially liver)

Steroids = much safer and you will get actual gains for your money.

[dupa95]

Don't use prohormones. If you're going to use PH, then just go and do straight steroids.

Prohormones are basically half-completed chemical structure of various steroids. Prohormones force your liver to complete the chemical structure of the steroid that you're taking, and that places a ton of stress on the liver and your liver values will skyrocket far higher than any oral steroid would do. You're better off injecting/ingesting straight hormones into your body than do the prohormone junk.

You also get worse side effects with prohormones and less results than steroids, so to sum it up:

Prohormones = side effects and more destruction on your body (especially liver)

Steroids = much safer and you will get actual gains for your money.

True good post. sd is actuly a steroid developed in 1964 but never marketed. And as you said very toxic. Injectlbles are not as harsh.So do you r home work and from the sound you are. Keeep studing.

[sitries]

i have used test before and had great gains. im also very familiar with all steroids and have been researching them for 3years now. im just intrigued by the results that some of my friends have had with PHs/PSs in such small amounts of time. i was actually thinking of using a PH to kickstart my next test cycle. i dont like the androgenic sides of dbol and can get hold of tbol. iv used var before and it gave good strength gains but its to expensive for what it is.

[bcaasdirty]

wow there r some ill informed ppl in this thread

PH are a waste of money they are not clones of steroids they are a bunch of garbage with the word anabolic on the bottle save your money

yes its true they are not exact clones however they are derived from steroids
e.g.

SuperDrol= cross between 2 DHTs (mestanolone & drostanalone --aka masteron)

M1T= derived from dianabol...
Testosterone + double bold (1st position) = boldenone.
Boldenone + 5alpha reduction = di-hydro-boldenone. (1-testosterone)
Di-hydro-boldenone + 17alpha alkylation = M1T.

JUST to name a few

The anabolic or androgenic activity from these compounds is laughable compared to even a severely low dosed cycle of test, yet they are severely liver toxic. You'll spend more money on liver cleansers than you will the actual PH. I wouldn't recommend any of them.

oh is that so? hmmmm last i check M1T was 7x more anabolic than testosterone, and SD is right up there in terms up strength with halo, a-bombs etc...just out of curiousity when was the last time you heard of someone putting on 20lbs of muscle in FOUR weeks on a test cycle?

you are however, correct about the toxicity! but you have been severely misinformed as to the cost of liver cleansers, i mean that is unless you cant afford the $5 for a bottle of milk thistle!

Don't use prohormones. If you're going to use PH, then just go and do straight steroids.

Prohormones are basically half-completed chemical structure of various steroids. Prohormones force your liver to complete the chemical structure of the steroid that you're taking, and that places a ton of stress on the liver and your liver values will skyrocket far higher than any oral steroid would do. You're better off injecting/ingesting straight hormones into your body than do the prohormone junk.

You also get worse side effects with prohormones and less results than steroids, so to sum it up:

Prohormones = side effects and more destruction on your body (especially liver)

Steroids = much safer and you will get actual gains for your money.

LOL wat??? you mean my liver has a friggen storage center in it w/ spare parts to "complete" prohormones????

WOW i always thought it was because the steroid ingested was a 17AA, and your liver was trying to break it down but couldnt, so it just produced more and more chemicals to try and break down the ingested substance, which ironically resulted in only hurting itself

hmm guess i learned something!

sorry if im coming across as a dick in this post, BUT theres 2 sides to every story!

YES they are toxic and dangerous (but at the same time VERY powerful--aka not junk like the misinformed have been parroting in this thread), but thats why god invented a lil thing called support supplements! liver support, cholesterol, blood pressure etc. NO they're not meant as a way to fully prevent side effects from happening, but they do serve as a way to minimize their occurrance, AND if you read through the countless logs and threads in this forum from people who have run "PH" cycles the RIGHT way, you will find very few, if ANY experienced ne of these side effects!


have a nice day!

[Sepsis]

listen to bcaasdirty, everyone else here is spewing missinformation about prohormones they read somewhere else without trying them. if it wasnt for the high toxicity of prohormones they would be a wonder supplment. i know for a fact that m1t and superdrol are extrmely effective in very short periods of time.

[Bradly1234]

haha people here got burned, personally if you can get some m1t, it would make a great kickstart to your cycle btw great post bcdirty

[sitries]

good post BCCASDIRTY. A very experienced friend of mine from another board said something simliar. hes donw countless cycles of gear and just wanted to try PHs after a 6month layoff from gear. he had a 10lbs gain in a 4 week CUTTING cycle!!! now thats pretty good going.

So my question now is....which one should i go for????? i want something with the least androgenic properties as im worried about hairloss. (i use finasteride with the test). which PH/PS will be similar to the low androgens such as EQ, Deca, tbol, anavar??????

cheers for the help.like i said before im pretty clued up on steroids but know very little about PHs

[sitries]

bump for more info

[bcaasdirty]

im trying to remember some stuff off the top of my head, so dont quote me on this but...

SD=dht=potential harm to ur hairline, PP was supposed to b pretty androgenic if i recall correctly (waits for kbizzle to chime in )

the original haladrol was more or less derived from tbol if i remember correctly

finigenix magnum was a progestin if i remember correctly, same w/ legal gears m1P (but ud b hard pressed to find that now), and generic labz xmass was an unmethylated progestin as well

other than that i cant really think of ne...if i get some free time later on this week ill see what else i can dig up

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

lol who taught u all that bcaasdirty?
haha hhhhmmmm me?

but yeah folks, he knows what hes talking bout
way to kick some arse dirty!

[bcaasdirty]

LOL

shit u kno how i roll bigsexy

[sitries]

thanks mate. i wont be starting my cycle until after the xma period so il wait for some more info from yourself, if you can find any. much appreciated. il def stay away from the superdrol though.

[sitries]

oh and what is a progestin???? and what is the relevance of this??

[sitries]

heres a little something that i found.


Methoxy-TST
Innovator: Bioscience Technologies
Nomenclature: 17b-methoxytrienosterone
Pill size: 2mg
Dosages: The label recommends 2-6mg daily, but many users report only noticing effects when dosed at 8-12mg.
Side effects: Low liver toxicity. Some users say this is a libido killer, yet others say the exact opposite. Other users report sides of thinning hair/hair loss.
Reputation: Seemingly underdosed, methoxy-TST could be considered an underrated designer, as many users have reported some substantial gains with higher dosages.


Epistane/Havoc/Hemaguno
Innovators: ***, RPN, Spectra Force
Nomenclature: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg or 12.5mg depending on what brand you use
Dosages: 20-50mg
Side Effects: Milder on liver and lipid levels than other methyls. Known to cause lower back and calf pumps.
Reputation: There has had some spectroscopy and compound identification issues with these products, but from personal experience with it, is still a solid product. Many users have taken this compound as a solo run for gynecomastia reduction due to it's SERM-like and anti-aromatase properties. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' of taking orals. Users can expect to see significant gains in both strength and mass.


Pheraplex:
Innovator: Designer Supplements
Nomenclature: 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg
Dosages: 10-40mg
Side Effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profile, lower back and calf pumps, some users report aggrevation of gynecomastia with this compound.
Reputation: Solid product for bulking. Wet gains. It is a sometimes used to jumpstart an injectable cycle. This is the less androgenic isomer in the Ergomax LMG matrix.


Ergomax LMG
Innovator: ALRI
Nomenclature: 17-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane & 17-methyl-delta-3-etioallocholane
Pill Size: 10mg
Dosages: 10-40mg
Side effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profiles, lower back and calf pumps, may aggrevate gynecomastia.
Reputation: Again pretty solid for bulking. Users can expect similar gains as with pheraplex.


Superdrol:
Innovator: Designer Supplements
Nomenclature: 2a, 17a-dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-etiocholan -3-one
Pill size: 10mg
Dosages: 10-30mg
Side Effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profiles, hypoglycemia lower back and calf pumps, some users report agrivation of gynecomastia with this compound. From personal experience, it gives me a wicked rebound, that causes some flare-up.
Reputation: Side effects vary from mild to extremely harsh, so use caution if planning your first run. Excellent dry gains. Great for bulking or cutting. Explosive strength gains.
This is a methylated form of Drostanolone (Masteron)


Methoxy-TRN
Innovator: ALRI
Nomenclature: 17b-Methoxy-Trienbolone
Pill size: 1.5mg
Dosages: 1.5-6mg
Side effects: Affects libido (some positively some negatively), can aggrevate gynecomastia. May cause thinning hair/ hair loss. Also another progestin.
Reputation: This guy is a real hit or miss. Some users loved the stuff, while others did not notice anything from it. From personal experience, I've noticed increases in strength as well as decreases in bodyfat.


Halodrol-50
Innovator: Gaspari Nutrition
Nomenclature: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-diene-3,17 diol
Pill Size: 50mg
Dosages: 25-75mg
Side effects: Heptatoxicity, lower back/calf pumps
Reputation: Milder than superdrol or pheraplex. Modest gains in mass and strength. Most users take this as part of a cutting cycle.
This is a prosteroid of Turinabol.

Prostanozol/ Orasan-E
Innovators: ALRI, Gaspari Nutrition
Nomenclature: [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol
Pill size: 25mg
Dosages: 50-150mg (Although it is not uncommon to go much higher than this)
Side effects: very few sides. Some users report thinning hair/hair loss.
Reputation: Possibly the most mild of the designers, this compound is rarely run standalone. It is often stacked with a methyl compound for a lean bulk or cut. Very mild, yet easily maintained gains.
This is a de-alkylated derivative of Stanozol (winstrol).


Finigenix Magnum
Innovators: PharmagenX
Nomenclature: Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione
Dosages: 50-75mg
Side effects: aggrevation of gynecomastia. This is a progestin (it can convert to trenbolone). Expect tren-like sides.
Reputation: Though there hasn't been much logged on this bad boy, those who've used it have liked it. This is a prohormone to Tren.

Propadrol:
Innovator: EST Nutrition
Nomenclures: 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene &
6-17 dihydroxyetiocholone-3-ol proponate
Dosages: 1-2 caps daily
Side effects: low side effects
Reputation: User's who've taken it have reported great decreases in bodyfat, while increasing musclemass and strength. Not much data is present on this compound within this forum. NOTE: this is does not contain the same compound as Max LMG. They are close, but no cigar.


Max LMG
Innovator: ALRI
Nomenclature: 13-ethyl-3methoxygona-2, 5(10)-dien-17-one
Pill size: 25mg
Dosages: 25-135mg daily
Side effects: Can easily aggrevate gynecomastia. May be a libido killer. This is another progestin.
Reputation: A bulking compound through and through. Users can expect great recovery, and soaking WET gains.


M-1,4ADD
Innovator: unknown
Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-1,4-Androstadiene-3,17diol
Dosages: 30-90mg daily
Side effects: heptatoxicity, slight possibility to aggrevate gyno
Reputation: Great for a bulk. Somewhat wet gains, and decent strength gains. This is a prohormone of Dianabol. However, since dianabol and Boldenone are so very similar, it is believed that the actions of this prohormone are more similar to boldenone than to dianabol (methylboldenone).

1,4 AD
Innovator: Molecular Nutrition
Dosages: 300-600mg
Nomenclature: 1,4-Androstadiene-3,17-dione
Side effects: Mild
Reputation: Very weak and not very cost-efficient at the moment. This compound is often stacked with a methyl to potentiate and accelerate gains. Cycles are usually run at a MINIMUM of 4 weeks as this one takes a few weeks to 'kick in'. Slow, steady, and easily maintainable gains. This is a prohormone of Boldenone.

Promagnon-25
Innovator: Peak Performance Labs
Dosages: 25-75mg
Nomenclature:4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3,17b-diol
Side effects: The usual sides associated with methylated compounds (heptatoxicity, lower back/calf pumps)
Reputation: Very similar to that of Halodrol-50, although people who've tried both seem to prefer Halodrol. For a while a lot of people were conviced that these two products were one in the same. Rest assured, they are not. This is a methyl derivative of clostebol.


Oxyguno
Innovator: Spectra Force
Nomenclature: 4-chloro-17 -methyl- etioallochol-4-ene- 17 -ol-3,11-dione
Pill Size: 7.5mg
Dosages: 7.5-22.5mg daily
Side effects: Heptatoxicity from 17a-methylation. Very low androgenic sides.
Reputation: Despite popular belief, this is not the most myotrophic designer out there: it has the highest Q factor. It is actually only about 77% as myotrophic as the active present in Havoc/Epistane/Hemaguno. Users taking Oxyguno can expect mass gains as well as excellent fatloss. Due to it's incredibly low androgenic ratio, strength gains are not as pronounced.

Furaguno/ Ortasan-A
Innovators: Spectra Force / Gaspari Nutrition
Pill Size: 33mg
Nomenclature: 5a0androstano[2,3-c] furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol
Dosages: 33-99mg daily
Side Effects: very mild
Reputation: Supposedly lowers cholesterol, increases androgenic receptor activity, and does not induce any heptatoxicity. This product is too young on the market to have developed a reputation yet. Get some, log it, and let us know so I can update this compound's profile. This is a prosteroid to furazabol.

3-AD / 11-oxo
Innovator: Anabolic Xtreme / Ergopharm
Pill Size: 150mg
Dosages: 450mg
Nomenclature: andrenosterone, 11-oxo-androstenedione, or 4-androstene-3,11,17-trione (all mean the same thing)
Side effects: Mild
Reputation: This prohormone has a great affinity for blocking up cortisol receptors. User's report great changes in body composition, namely significant fatloss.


Any additions/corrections you think should be made, just bump the thread, and I'll fix them when I have the time.

[bcaasdirty]

WOW thats one mother of a list!

[Undecided09]

hmm, where did all the supposed experts on PHs go all of a sudden dirty? haha...isn't it amazing how one misinformed person can clone? Just goes to show you how all of these supplements, legal or not, have so much incorrect information around them that generates the need for a collective "forum" to clear up all the myths and heresay....

[bcaasdirty]

they went BYE BYE lol

[Slaiv]

wth? pro hormones?!?!

is this like a legal version of steroids or something?

and where can i get pro hormones?! PLEASE DONT BAN IF THIS MEANS SOURCE CHECK!! I DIDNT KNOW

[Amorphic]

wth? pro hormones?!?!

is this like a legal version of steroids or something?

and where can i get pro hormones?! PLEASE DONT BAN IF THIS MEANS SOURCE CHECK!! I DIDNT KNOW

they are 'legal' 'steroid alternatives'

they contain certain parts of the chemical sequence of certain steroids, when injected and metabolized by your liver, the enzymes in your liver complete the missing links in the ph to synthesize the steroid.

they are hard on your liver however and results are no where near real anabolic steroids.

im not a fan of them

[Slaiv]

wow... thats good to know

another quick question if you dont mind....

im very excited about Nutrex new product that will come out tom., the Nutrex Anabol 5! suposedly the best thing to real steroids being non-steroidal

would this be another supplements that uses pro hormones?? here is what it has

Non-Steroidal Anabolic Multi-Phase Stack 145mg

Dicyclopentanone 10mg
6-keto-Diosgenin 100mg
Acetate Ester 25mg
Propionate Ester 25mg
Cyioponate Ester 25mg
Decanoate ESter 25mg
Hecogenin Acetate 10mg
25-R Spirostan-5a-diol-6-one-3-one-undercanoate 25mg
Rhamponticum Carthamoides 10mg

what does this look like to you?

[desy]

Does anyone have any experience on Methyl 1-D? Does it cause gyno or hair loss?

[Amorphic]

wow... thats good to know

another quick question if you dont mind....

im very excited about Nutrex new product that will come out tom., the Nutrex Anabol 5! suposedly the best thing to real steroids being non-steroidal

would this be another supplements that uses pro hormones?? here is what it has

Non-Steroidal Anabolic Multi-Phase Stack 145mg

Dicyclopentanone 10mg
6-keto-Diosgenin 100mg
Acetate Ester 25mg
Propionate Ester 25mg
Cyioponate Ester 25mg
Decanoate ESter 25mg
Hecogenin Acetate 10mg
25-R Spirostan-5a-diol-6-one-3-one-undercanoate 25mg
Rhamponticum Carthamoides 10mg

what does this look like to you?

i havent heard of it but it looks like a ph.

ph do not give you results equivelent to steroids. they are cycled for 2 weeks on, 2 off. proper pct is required as they suppress your hpta similarly to aas, although they will not fully shut you down. any ph should be stacked with testosterone, either 1ad or 4ad ph products or injectable.

[No One Knows]

i havent heard of it but it looks like a ph.

ph do not give you results equivelent to steroids. they are cycled for 2 weeks on, 2 off. proper pct is required as they suppress your hpta similarly to aas, although they will not fully shut you down. any ph should be stacked with testosterone, either 1ad or 4ad ph products or injectable.

Lots of misinformation here.

PH/Designers give pretty much equal results. What do you gain off a 12 week Test E + Dbol cycle? 15-20 lbs? What about 4 weeks with a Designer/PH? 10-15 lbs.... for the time/dosage the results look pretty similar. To me atleast.

And they won't fully shut you down? Why would you need PCT if it didn't shut you down? Just because its legal doesn't mean it isnt a potent steroid. They will MOST CERTAINLY shut you down just as much as illegal steroids will.

And you're supposed to cycle PH's 2 on 2 off? Wow...I've never heard of that rule before. That must be a new one. ROFL

[Amorphic]

Lots of misinformation here.

PH/Designers give pretty much equal results. What do you gain off a 12 week Test E + Dbol cycle? 15-20 lbs? What about 4 weeks with a Designer/PH? 10-15 lbs.... for the time/dosage the results look pretty similar. To me atleast.

And they won't fully shut you down? Why would you need PCT if it didn't shut you down? Just because its legal doesn't mean it isnt a potent steroid. They will MOST CERTAINLY shut you down just as much as illegal steroids will.

And you're supposed to cycle PH's 2 on 2 off? Wow...I've never heard of that rule before. That must be a new one. ROFL

i disagree.

a 12 week test/dbol cycle is certainly a safer and more effective cycle than say 4 weeks of m1t, 4ad.

if ph were just as effective as real cycles, no one would be using injectables.

ph compared to deca or tren? the aas cycle is much more effective.

and no, not all ph do shut you down fully. exogenous test shuts you down 100% in several weeks, 4 weeks of m1t will not suppress your hpta 100% like exogenous test will, or deca, tren etc.

2 on 2 off is not a made in stone rule, i know several people that cycle m1t/4ad this way and like the results, others cycle 4 weeks straight and stop.

i dont think im misinformed at all.

[No One Knows]

i disagree.

a 12 week test/dbol cycle is certainly a safer and more effective cycle than say 4 weeks of m1t, 4ad.

if ph were just as effective as real cycles, no one would be using injectables.

ph compared to deca or tren? the aas cycle is much more effective.

and no, not all ph do shut you down fully. exogenous test shuts you down 100% in several weeks, 4 weeks of m1t will not suppress your hpta 100% like exogenous test will, or deca, tren etc.

2 on 2 off is not a made in stone rule, i know several people that cycle m1t/4ad this way and like the results, others cycle 4 weeks straight and stop.

i dont think im that misinformed

I've used Sust250, Test E, Test C, Test P, Tren, Deca, and Dbol with great results.

I've also used superdrol, Pheraplex, and MaxLMG with great results.

For the time/results/sides I almost like using designers better.

You keep saying DECA or TREN is more effective. Yes, maybe over 12 weeks. Take Tren or Deca for 4 weeks and see where it gets you.

[bcaasdirty]

i disagree.

a 12 week test/dbol cycle is certainly a safer and more effective cycle than say 4 weeks of m1t, 4ad.
do you have the blood tests to prove that? no one is arguing the toxicity of designer roids, however if run properly i.e. correct dose, cycle length, proper support supplementation, there will be little to NO occurence of side effects...read the countless logs done in this forum bud

if ph were just as effective as real cycles, no one would be using injectables.

i bet if you were to survey all the users of designer steroids on this forum you would find one of the big reasons for use of designers is for legal reasons aka they aint schedule III drugs like injectables

ph compared to deca or tren? the aas cycle is much more effective.
o rly?
as said b4, designer roid cycles are typically run for 4 weeks, during which it is EXTREMELY common for users to put on 15+ pounds of muscle, skyrocket in strength etc. how long would it take a user to put on that much w/ a typical cycle? 12 weeks? well in my book 4 > 12

OH not to mention if post cycle is done properly users WILL maintain all if not most of their gains, hell ive even read one dude on here that got stronger during pct!

and no, not all ph do shut you down fully. exogenous test shuts you down 100% in several weeks, 4 weeks of m1t will not suppress your hpta 100% like exogenous test will, or deca, tren etc.
wow cool! so i get to use a substance (m1t) for 4 weeks, put on as much if not more muscle than you will in 12 weeks of test, AND its going to be easier for me to recover during pct? guess wat,

2 on 2 off is not a made in stone rule, i know several people that cycle m1t/4ad this way and like the results, others cycle 4 weeks straight and stop.

i dont think im misinformed at all.

see bold

i would say you are a tad misinformed...im gonna go out on a limb here and guess you've never 'played' with any designer roids b4. if true heres a good rule of thumb: keep your mouth shut until you have!

you'll never see me in the steroid section of this website parroting information, you want to know why? cuz ive never used steroids b4!

[bcaasdirty]

oh and to slaiv:

wouldnt waste ur time w/ watever it is you have listed...anything with 23049823049832049832 compounds listed and claims to b a designer roid/prohormone etc is mroe than likely poo poo

when dealing with designer roids the K.I.S.S principle applys: keep it simple stupid --the less ingredients teh better !

[ctx97]

Does anyone have any experience on Methyl 1-D? Does it cause gyno or hair loss?

x2 on this?

[Amorphic]

bcaasdirty.

hair loss, lethargy related to m1t... zero occurance of sides? i think thats a little overstated, nearly all aas or ph are going to have some kind of sides, whether it be severe or mild is dependant on ancillaries used yes.

Not all countries have steroids as sched III substances, so dont think your little shed III loophole applies to everywhere in the world...here in say Canada, i can posess all the steroids i want and theres not a thing anyone can do about it, sorry you live in the states, your loss, not mine.

if pro h are so amazing as you say, there would be a much larger group of users than there is currently.

you say you can put on as much muscle on ph than i would on say a prop tren cycle? i highly doubt that.

my mouth will stay open thanks.

[bcaasdirty]

bcaasdirty.

hair loss, lethargy related to m1t... zero occurance of sides? i think thats a little overstated, nearly all aas or ph are going to have some kind of sides, whether it be severe or mild is dependant on ancillaries used yes.

Not all countries have steroids as sched III substances, so dont think your little shed III loophole applies to everywhere in the world...here in say Canada, i can posess all the steroids i want and theres not a thing anyone can do about it, sorry you live in the states, your loss, not mine.

if pro h are so amazing as you say, there would be a much larger group of users than there is currently.

you say you can put on as much muscle on ph than i would on say a prop tren cycle? i highly doubt that.

my mouth will stay open thanks.

canada...touche

lethargy on m1t--megadose vit c and BYE BYE lethargy

and to answer the question y arent there more users of designer roids? theres a stigma about the whole supplement industry...people pick up copys of muscle and fitness and see all these glamorous muscletech ads and they think "oh snap i can look like jay cutler in 4 weeks!" which as we all kno aint gonna happen...supp companys and products all get a bad rap (this is in a nutshell, a BIG nutshell lol)

then designer steroids come rollin around--b/c of this stigma ppl think 'no ****ing way these products will work, they're garbage" when it turns out they do infact work, and they work VERY good. but how? all supps are garbage! well these 'prohormones' as they are so called are anything but, they are infact designer steroids, no conversion needed, they're active of their own (obv things like 1ad, 4ad etc were prohormones).

look im not gonna sit here and have a pissing match about designer steroids vs 'real' steroids

fact: designer steroids do work
fact: designer steroids can put on as much muscle/mass as a real cycle can in a fraction of the time
fact: designer steroids are VERY toxic, and do have their share of side effects (duh! they're steroids would you expect ne less?), BUT if proper support supps are used, side effects are can be reduced to a minimum (cept for genetics i.e. prone to hairloss/gyno, so to take one outta your book, 'your loss, not mine')

again the proof is in the pudding, just read through the logs people have done on this forum and see the results ppl have gotten.

[Slaiv]

thank you very much for all your info bcassdirty!

anamorphic, i respect your opinions too, but i always go with facts and that is what bcassdirty seems to have laid out to back his claim

i guess ill just try this one bottle of anabol 5 and see how it goes, ill make sure to take some milk thistle too to help me liver out a bit, i made ahnother thread about it so let me go check up on it

btw.... where can you purchase pro horm.? again, if this is a source check, then im sorry, dont tell me, but if it is in fact a legit question and someone can tell me where, then please help me out on this
thanks again everyone!

[Amorphic]

canada...touche

lethargy on m1t--megadose vit c and BYE BYE lethargy

and to answer the question y arent there more users of designer roids? theres a stigma about the whole supplement industry...people pick up copys of muscle and fitness and see all these glamorous muscletech ads and they think "oh snap i can look like jay cutler in 4 weeks!" which as we all kno aint gonna happen...supp companys and products all get a bad rap (this is in a nutshell, a BIG nutshell lol)

then designer steroids come rollin around--b/c of this stigma ppl think 'no ****ing way these products will work, they're garbage" when it turns out they do infact work, and they work VERY good. but how? all supps are garbage! well these 'prohormones' as they are so called are anything but, they are infact designer steroids, no conversion needed, they're active of their own (obv things like 1ad, 4ad etc were prohormones).

look im not gonna sit here and have a pissing match about designer steroids vs 'real' steroids

fact: designer steroids do work
fact: designer steroids can put on as much muscle/mass as a real cycle can in a fraction of the time
fact: designer steroids are VERY toxic, and do have their share of side effects (duh! they're steroids would you expect ne less?), BUT if proper support supps are used, side effects are can be reduced to a minimum (cept for genetics i.e. prone to hairloss/gyno, so to take one outta your book, 'your loss, not mine')

again the proof is in the pudding, just read through the logs people have done on this forum and see the results ppl have gotten.

dude, im not debating the fact that they work and i dont enjoy having a pissing match with you either. points taken and we'll agree on certain things and perhaps disagree a little on the others.

[No One Knows]

look im not gonna sit here and have a pissing match about designer steroids vs 'real' steroids

fact: designer steroids do work
fact: designer steroids can put on as much muscle/mass as a real cycle can in a fraction of the time
fact: designer steroids are VERY toxic, and do have their share of side effects (duh! they're steroids would you expect ne less?), BUT if proper support supps are used, side effects are can be reduced to a minimum (cept for genetics i.e. prone to hairloss/gyno, so to take one outta your book, 'your loss, not mine')

again the proof is in the pudding, just read through the logs people have done on this forum and see the results ppl have gotten.

Exactly... Don't take em if you don't want to, but don't go around parroting misinformation about them. It only makes you look ignorant.

[Amorphic]

Exactly... Don't take em if you don't want to, but don't go around parroting misinformation about them. It only makes you look ignorant.

ignorant? riiiiight.

i presented my views on ph and you guys turned this into a big 'ph are so much better than aas and if you dont agree you are stupid' thread.

enough for me.

[No One Knows]

LOL - thats why you have 5000+ posts.

Go parrot some more.

[Amorphic]

LOL - thats why you have 5000+ posts.

Go parrot some more.

whats why i have 5k posts? i could easily lie about my cycle experience and everything ive ever said or advice ive given could be interpreted as 100% experience, hell half the people on here speak from 'personal experience' and they are full of shit.

[Amorphic]

and lastly, at least ive done my fvcking homework on a lot of these things. Even if i am not on cycle, i have friends and acquaintances that are on and have passed their experiences to me, im not sitting here staring at words on a page, i have been around steroids for a while now and i have witnessed the sides and results firsthand, so my opinion is not without merit.

i'll 'parrot' all i want, if you want to call it that.

last time i checked, my advice has been helpful to plenty of members here and plenty of people would back me up making that claim.

so i'm done trying to prove myself in this thread, fvck it