Deadlifts, SUMO & TRADITIONAL

[Chuck_R]

I've always included DL's in my program, whether it be bodybuilding or strenth training. However, I've always used traditional, for me feet slightly wider than shoulders, grip just outside of legs(barely), bar dragging up chins utilizing the legs for power then back up and hips forward, shoulders back.

I really believe adding SUMO style would be benficial all around, especially since it utilizes the groin and inner thighs. It just works the body differently than the traditional. Mixin' it up would be good right?

Experience and Feedback appreciated.

[Da_Mayor]

Yeah I do both of them. Depending on my workout regime that week. Sometimes I do both in the same leg workout. Or sometimes I split them when I do an all back day (back of my legs, lower back, upper back) and then power day (cleans, front squats, dead lift sumo, etc). Just make sure you keep your head looking up so you dont strain your lower back. Either way its always good to switch up your workouts and isolate/work each muscle differently. You can also do straight leg dead lifts too.

[Chuck_R]

Yeah I do both of them. Depending on my workout regime that week. Sometimes I do both in the same leg workout. Or sometimes I split them when I do an all back day (back of my legs, lower back, upper back) and then power day (cleans, front squats, dead lift sumo, etc). Just make sure you keep your head looking up so you dont strain your lower back. Either way its always good to switch up your workouts and isolate/work each muscle differently. You can also do straight leg dead lifts too.

I've been doing my DL routine once a week(Back Day) plus I do GoodMornings or StiffLeg DL's along with it. I've haven't been recovering all that well between wkouts even tho' I'm on cycle. I was told to drop DL's to every other week. That hurts, cause I love DL's, but if eow is best, then ok.
Maybe by alternating Traditional DL's with Sumo DL's I can keep DL's for every week. Feedback?

[ironaddict69]

I would definitely change deads to EO week. If your doing heavy squats and deadlifts in the same week I've found it to be extremely taxing. But if you like that type of training, switch to Every other day training, and youll have enough recovery. best decision I
ve made so far in the gym.

[Chuck_R]

Thanks iron, I'm def. gonna go eow w/ my DL. Do you have any experience with Sumo DL's? From what I've read it sounds like it's real awkward to begin with and you got to start light so you don't pull your groin. Also, it doesn't involve the lower back as much and your pull distance is shortened. I quess I'll just try it out and maybe I can keep DL's every week by alternating Sumo and Traditional DL.

[Doc.Sust]

i was a conventional. and switched to sumo. much easier on the back. less travel distance. i had to swithc because of back problems. sumo felt like shitt for a few months. now it is normal and i am stronger sumo by a long shot. keep pulling conventional if youconvert to sumo. otherwise you back will get weaker.

[ironaddict69]

Well straight from the mouth of a legend, I will definitely do that, thanks doc.

[Chuck_R]

i was a conventional. and switched to sumo. much easier on the back. less travel distance. i had to swithc because of back problems. sumo felt like shitt for a few months. now it is normal and i am stronger sumo by a long shot. keep pulling conventional if youconvert to sumo. otherwise you back will get weaker.

Ironaddict[QUOTE]Well straight from the mouth of a legend, I will definitely do that, thanks doc.[Quote]

x2 Iron, and yes, thank you Doc.

[Doc.Sust]

another thing that may help, i now squat and pull on the same day, therefore i only break my balls once a wk and give my body and my cns a full wk to recover,
here lets go through a typical 4 wk wave of what i do.

squat dead(or speed day if we are using westside terms) is saturday, my leg assistance day is on monday(this is also called the max effort day)

wk 1 heavy box squats using bands sets 5-6 sets of 2's
lighter conventional pulls against bands working in a rep range of 3-5 reps 5 sets
1-2 back/hamstring movement and abs

wk2 box squats again
lighter speed sumo pulls against bands 3-4sets of 2
moderate conventional pull 2-3 sets of 5 not using bands
1 back/hamstring movement and abs

wk 3light box squats(active recovery wk) using anywhere btwn 35-50% of squat max. 8-10 sets of 2
no deadlifts this wk
2 back/hamstring movement light and abs light

wk4 heavy free squats(usually just in briefs or if close to a meet in full gear. i very rarely do full gear.) working up to a 1 rep max
heavy sumo pulls working up to no higher than 90% for a single
ab work, no back or hamstring movement


on mondays my auxillary day for the wave may look something like this

wk 1
max effort bar exercise(choose goodmorning variation, partial squat,safety bar squat, manta squat,close stance squat, rack pull, romanian dead.) i usually stick with different goodmorning variations or a romanian dead rather than a squat or a partial deadlift. work up to a 3 rep max done

pick 2 more back or hamstring movements( glute ham raise, revers hyper, leg curls, band leg curls, pull throughs ,dimmel deads, stiff leg deadlifts,weighted hyperextions, 45 degree hyper extensions,and very rarely but sometimes partial deads) exercise are usually 2- 4 sets with reps anywhere btwn 5- 15 reps, if the weight is light, i go higher with the reps. heavier, lower reps,you have to REALLY listen to your body, if you are still beat up from the squat/dead day, hold back a little, if everything feels light, go nuts! if i was goingto use a rack dead i work with reps of 5's. i f was to do pull throughs, i would work with reps of 10-15.

abs

wk2 same as wk 1

wk 3
skip the max effort bar exercise. pick 3 back or hamstring/back movements, keep it light and quick, do NOT use any bar exercises (good mornings, squats , deads ,partial deads stiff leg dead, rack pull etc etc in this workout)

wk 4, same as wk 1

i hope this helps, this is a variation of chuck vogelphols template, only difference is chuck doesnt do ANY bar movements on auxillary day! he can get away with this because of the level he is at and how many years he did use bar movemnts on the max effort day. i dont think to many of us can say we are on the same level as chuck v.
just remember, most important thing is to listen to your body,. if you are beat up from the squat dead day, take it easy on the auxillary day

[naturalsux]

i also started doing deads and squats on the same day. deadlifts first then

squats and i really like it. the deads get me good and warmed up for squats.

[Doc.Sust]

i also started doing deads and squats on the same day. deadlifts first then

squats and i really like it. the deads get me good and warmed up for squats.

switch this around. squat first , dead second. reason being in a meet, you would squat before you would deadlift. even if you dont compete this is the way to go. when andy bolton pulled 1003 he trained the squat light before the dead

[Chuck_R]

Hey Doc, thanks for the informative, useful post#9, that info is rolling around in my head, now being processed. It'll probably take a good 24 hrs for my mental printer to process & print it for me.
If I've been using a good traditional DL routine and I want to add a solid sumo DL routine to the mix(possibly going dominant Sumo DL for future comps and meets) I assume I can continue my traditional DL routine(w/ less %) and slowly crank the Sumo style intensity up as I better develope the muscles more involve in sumo, ASSUMING that I can transfer the workout plan from tradional DL's to Sumo(use the same wkout for sumo that I did for traditional).
My body is no doubt built for powerlifting(altho' it's almost 40yoa) and more so for sumo style deadlifts.
Feedback fom Doc and fellow peers appreciated.

[Doc.Sust]

Hey Doc, thanks for the informative, useful post#9, that info is rolling around in my head, now being processed. It'll probably take a good 24 hrs for my mental printer to process & print it for me.
If I've been using a good traditional DL routine and I want to add a solid sumo DL routine to the mix(possibly going dominant Sumo DL for future comps and meets) I assume I can continue my traditional DL routine(w/ less %) and slowly crank the Sumo style intensity up as I better develope the muscles more involve in sumo, ASSUMING that I can transfer the workout plan from tradional DL's to Sumo(use the same wkout for sumo that I did for traditional).
My body is no doubt built for powerlifting(altho' it's almost 40yoa) and more so for sumo style deadlifts.
Feedback fom Doc and fellow peers appreciated.

if you want to keep using that program,find your sumo max. plug in those numbers for your program. cut out some of the volume and leave some room to work conventional after you do your sumo work

[Chuck_R]

if you want to keep using that program,find your sumo max. plug in those numbers for your program. cut out some of the volume and leave some room to work conventional after you do your sumo work

Thanks Doc, will do.