Testosterone E, without anti-estrogen or AI drugs?!

[kralj321]

Did anyone of you run testosterone enanthate without anti-estrogen or AI drugs while on cycle?!

If yes, what dosage did you use? What was the results?

What is your opinion on this?

[shifty_git]

Id say on a test only cycle its perfectly fine not to use an AI if you dont need one... but have one on hand incase you do.

Is this your first cycle? and whats ya age / stats etc?

[kralj321]

Id say on a test only cycle its perfectly fine not to use an AI if you dont need one... but have one on hand incase you do.

Is this your first cycle? and whats ya age / stats etc?

27, 5'11", 200. No cycle history, but I'm curious about test. Read a lot on AAS, liked this one http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...urcetype=HWCIT

[shifty_git]

Whats ya bf? and training history?

Well a plain test e course is the way to go for a first cycle.. very good choice. (rather than a lot of guys who wanna do about 5 compunds on there first cycle!)

Test E + An AI on hand just incase (Arimidex)

Then have you a planned PCT?

[kralj321]

Whats ya bf? and training history?

Well a plain test e course is the way to go for a first cycle.. very good choice. (rather than a lot of guys who wanna do about 5 compunds on there first cycle!)

Test E + An AI on hand just incase (Arimidex)

Then have you a planned PCT?

I don't know my bodyfat in percentage but I can say that my abs are slightly visible. Training history is few years of training.

I think A. Roberts PCT looks good, maybe throw in some Tribestan(from Sopharma) also.

What do you think about this PCT?

[shifty_git]

Looks pretty solid to me!

Maybe even overkill if you consider 'need Vs cost'

Nolva & Clomid + an AI will do the trick after a Test only course.

But what you suggested is great if you have the extra $$$

[kralj321]

Whats ya bf? and training history?

Well a plain test e course is the way to go for a first cycle.. very good choice. (rather than a lot of guys who wanna do about 5 compunds on there first cycle!)

Test E + An AI on hand just incase (Arimidex)

Then have you a planned PCT?

Can you answer this question.
I know no.1 pro bodybuilder in my country, he has run a lot of cycles and choose not to run PCT.
He ran PCT in beginning and than experimented with NO pct, and now he don't use PCT.

How come, and remember he is no.1 in my country.

[ironaddict69]

The gains from test with no AI will be a lot more than test with an anti E or with an AI. Estrogen boosts gains, period.

[Merc..]

see this thread about estrogen and muscle gains....


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...strogen+ai%27s


Merc.

[Merc..]

Or

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=merc+article


Merc.

[kralj321]

shifty_git, what dosage do you recommend, what is the lowest? do I have to run 500mg/w or can I lower the dosage?
Remember, I'd like to put on 10-15 pounds, not more, that is my goal.
I have original Aburaihan.

[shifty_git]

Can you answer this question.
I know no.1 pro bodybuilder in my country, he has run a lot of cycles and choose not to run PCT.
He ran PCT in beginning and than experimented with NO pct, and now he don't use PCT.

How come, and remember he is no.1 in my country.

maybe cruises on an hrt dose between cycles?

The gains from test with no AI will be a lot more than test with an anti E or with an AI. Estrogen boosts gains, period.

Def agreed.

shifty_git, what dosage do you recommend, what is the lowest? do I have to run 500mg/w or can I lower the dosage?
Remember, I'd like to put on 10-15 pounds, not more, that is my goal.
I have original Aburaihan.

Well most do say 500mg per week, but maybe as low as 300mg could see results... is different for every person.. right down to how much of a % there body wants to aromatize.

Id never recommend a dose, but 500mg is a common starter point for test only.

def read those links merc posted.. very helpful info!

[kralj321]

I know that estrogen boost gains. Read this article http://www.*********.com/steroid-esters/

[kralj321]

Well most do say 500mg per week, but maybe as low as 300mg could see results... is different for every person.. right down to how much of a % there body wants to aromatize.

You are right when you say 300mg, 'cause according to this research, link http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...281/6/E1172/T2 , low doses test lowered IGF - levels.
But at dosage of 300mg test, IGF levels started to raise.

Notice not a big difference in IGF levels from 300mg vs. 600mg test!

[kralj321]

shifty_git, What about 250mg every fifth day(it would be 350mg/week), and for PCT only high dosage Tribestan say 4-5grams/day, try to avoid anti-estrogen 'cause of gains.

[shifty_git]

shifty_git, What about 250mg every fifth day(it would be 350mg/week), and for PCT only high dosage Tribestan say 4-5grams/day, try to avoid anti-estrogen 'cause of gains.

hmmm well 500mg is a good start point, increased igf is helpful when lifting, but also that bit more free test in ya system does help also.

Never used triestan.. but from what i understand it raises estro 2.

And you dont wanna deliberately raise estro as you will be getting more through aromatization from the test.

Stick with the Test + AI on hand incase needed.

+ either the Anthony Roberts PCT or Nolva + Clomid + AI PCT.

[kralj321]

hmmm well 500mg is a good start point, increased igf is helpful when lifting, but also that bit more free test in ya system does help also.

Never used triestan.. but from what i understand it raises estro 2.

And you dont wanna deliberately raise estro as you will be getting more through aromatization from the test.

Stick with the Test + AI on hand incase needed.

+ either the Anthony Roberts PCT or Nolva + Clomid + AI PCT.

shifty_git, MANY THANKS for your quick answers!!! Best regards! Now, it's food time

[meathead320]

Test E or C (almost same IMHO), does convert to E2 and DHT relatively easy, and more than Prop.

However, at doses under 400mg EW, and with guys under the age of 40, and bellow 20% bodyfat, the amount that coverts to E2 is ussually not too bad anyway.

Still a good idea to keep an AI on hand, just for incase you really do need it. If you do, keep the dose to the bare minimum to keep sides down.

I know a few guys who just do low dose cycles of test E, as low as 400mg EW (200mg on mon, and thur), for 18 weeks, and run a low dose of oral winny with it, and nothing else.
They then do nolva 50mg ED for 30 days PCT, with 7 days of an AI arimidex at 0.25mg ED after that, and then off of everything, once or twice a year, with very little if any problems, and great results.

I call that "sane steroid" use. They also get assistance from a doctor to monitor for sides while they are on too. Docs will not get you the gear, but tend to agree to monitoring for health disasters while you are on.

Blood testing every month if your insurance will cover tests for lipids and liver values and RBC.

The doc can just write down "family history of high RBC, blood pressure, and cholesterol" , and "patient drinks alcohol", and it would be easy enough to get insurance to pay for such health monitoring tests.

It is harder to get them to pay for LH FSH, testost, FreeT, E2 etc...

Anyhow, I always suggest getting an actual doctor involved, at least just to monitor for any potential dangerous sides, before they become a problem.