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Thread: Bush budget would bring record deficits

  1. #1
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    Bush budget would bring record deficits

    Bush budget would bring record deficits

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080205/...9s85WFarRg.3QA

    By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer
    1 hour, 25 minutes ago



    WASHINGTON - The record $3.1 trillion budget proposed by President Bush on Monday would produce eyepopping federal deficits, despite his attempts to impose politically wrenching curbs on Medicare and eliminate scores of popular domestic programs.

    The Pentagon would receive a $36 billion, 8 percent boost for the 2009 budget year beginning Oct. 1, even as programs aimed at the poor would be cut back or eliminated. Half of domestic Cabinet departments would see their budgets cut outright.

    Bush's overall request for defense spending in 2009 is $588.3 billion, compared with $670 billion this year. But it includes only $70 billion for initial war costs in Iraq and Afghanistan, $119 billion less than has been projected for this year. That $70 billion is almost certain to increase.

    Slumping revenues and the cost of an economic rescue package will combine to produce a huge jump in the deficit to $410 billion this year and $407 billion in 2009, the White House says, just shy of the record $413 billion set four years ago.

    But even those figures are optimistic since they depend on rosy economic forecasts and leave out the full costs of the war in Iraq. The White House predicts the economy will grow at a 2.7 percent clip this year, far higher than congressional and private economists expect, and the administration's $70 billion figure for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan is simply a placeholder until the next president takes office.
    Bush's lame-duck budget plan is likely to be ignored by Congress, which is controlled by Democrats and already looking ahead to November elections. His long-term projections are mostly academic since he's leaving office next January.

    The president forecasts a $48 billion surplus by 2012, keeping a promise he made two years ago when strong revenue predictions made it look far easier. Now, he's relying on spending cuts — for everything from transportation to Medicare and Medicaid to nonprofit groups that help the poor — to do the job in order to keep his signature 2001 and 2003 tax cuts intact instead of expiring at the end of 2010.

    "Our formula for achieving a balanced budget is simple: create the conditions for economic growth, keep taxes low and spend taxpayer dollars wisely or not at all," Bush said in his budget message.
    Democrats said the forecast of a budget surplus in 2012 was based on flawed math that included only $70 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2009 and no money after that. The budget plan also fails to include any provisions after this year for keeping the alternative minimum tax, originally aimed at the wealthy, from ensnaring millions of middle-class taxpayers. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that fixing the AMT in 2012 would cost $118 billion, more than double the surplus Bush is projecting for that year.

    Jim Nussle, the White House budget director, said the softening economy, continuing war costs and the deficit-financed economic stimulus measure soon to clear Congress were responsible for the worsening deficit picture. And he said that the deficits experienced during the Reagan years and Bush's father's administration were far worse when compared to the size of the economy.

    "It's a manageable deficit — it isn't the largest in history by any stretch of the imagination — and it's one that can be managed if we get economic growth back on track," Nussle said.

    Bush is leaving his successor an enormous fiscal dilemma. The deficit numbers will mean pressure to allow some tax cuts to expire, especially the 35 percent bracket for wealthy taxpayers, which will revert to 39.6 percent at the end of 2010 unless renewed. Pressure from Wall Street to trim the deficit may cause even Democrats to go after the spiraling growth of Medicare and the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled.

    "There was an assumption that in the short term that the budget would start to correct and that we could balance in the short term," said Sen. Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, top Republican on the Budget Committee. "But with the stimulus package and with the continuing war costs, that's not going to happen. In fact it's going to get very serious when you're hitting $400 billion deficits."

    "We've been able to close the deficit gap with good economic growth, therefore good revenue growth. Those days are coming to an end, and we're going to have to do it the old fashioned way, through real spending discipline," said top House Budget Committee Republican Paul Ryan of Wisconsin.

    Bush proposes killing or cutting back sharply 151 programs to save $18 billion next year. Many of those cuts have been proposed and rejected by Congress before, such as moves to eliminate community services grants to nonprofit groups that help the poor, a food program aimed at low-income seniors and grants to help states keep illegal immigrants convicted of felonies in jail. Lawmakers will surely restore proposed cuts to clean water grants, funding for local law enforcement and homeland security grants to states and local governments.

    "Today's budget bears all the hallmarks of the Bush legacy — it leads to more deficits, more debt, more tax cuts, more cutbacks in critical services," said House Budget Committee Chairman John Spratt, D-S.C.
    Overall, Bush proposes a five-year freeze on domestic programs funded by Congress each year. For 2009, that means just a 1 percent boost in a universally supported food program for poor pregnant women and their children, despite rapidly rising food costs. Health research funded by the National Institutes of Health would be frozen, which is likely to mean fewer research grants.


    Some of Bush's proposals are hopelessly unrealistic, such as cutting veterans' medical programs for four years in a row after awarding them a small increase next year. Their costs have nearly doubled during Bush's tenure.

    Bush's budget does contain some increases, for abstinence education, Pell Grants for college students from low-income families and grants to school districts. The Food and Drug Administration would get a larger-than-average budget increase to send staff overseas to inspect food and drugs imported into the United States.

    Foreign aid would grow by 10.3 percent, to $22.7 billion, with big increases for HIV/AIDS programs, anti-drug and -crime programs in Mexico and Latin America, development aid, and security packages mainly for Israel, Egypt, Colombia and Lebanon.

    Funding for the State Children's Health Insurance Program, the subject of an intense battle with Democrats last year, would increase by almost $20 billion over the next five years. That still falls short of a bipartisan plan passed twice by Congress.

    The budget proposes eliminating the $283 million federal program to help people make their homes more energy efficient and would cut energy aid to poor households by $500 million, a 22 percent drop over this year's spending. Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., called scrapping the home weatherization program "completely wrong headed" at a time of high heating costs.

    Seven years ago, Bush took over a government predicted to generate $5.6 trillion in surpluses over 10 years. Those estimates were flawed, but there's no question he's leaving his successor a budget in far weaker fiscal shape than he inherited.
    For instance, when he took office the total federal debt held by the public was $3.3 trillion, and some policymakers actually worried that investors might not be able to get their hands on enough federal bonds unless taxes were cut. Now, debt held by the public — including foreign governments — is expected to reach $5.4 trillion this year and $5.9 trillion in 2009, according to Bush's budget submission. Some $2.3 trillion is foreign held.

  2. #2
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    Well obviously, Logic dictates, they need to cut more since there is a deficit.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooks View Post
    Well obviously, Logic dictates, they need to cut more since there is a deficit.
    yes........
    taxation does not fix a deficit, spending cuts do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13 View Post
    yes........
    taxation does not fix a deficit, spending cuts do.
    It doesn't really work when you only cut domestic programs and veterans benefits, then spend 10x that on wars.
    Funny how every republican administration of recent times has produced record deficits, and the democratic ones produced record surpluses, yet so many people associate republicans with fiscal responsibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coop77 View Post
    It doesn't really work when you only cut domestic programs and veterans benefits, then spend 10x that on wars.
    Funny how every republican administration of recent times has produced record deficits, and the democratic ones produced record surpluses, yet so many people associate republicans with fiscal responsibility.
    OK, well aside from my regular job, I am big into the economy, I trade commodities, currencies, stocks, options, anything and everything, plus I really like to enjoy looking at economic data like inflation numbers, or how certain things act in certain situations, etc etc.. so here' is what I've dug up over time when it comes to this argument...

    from 1994 or so - 2000.. there happened this non-political event in our country a lot of people would refer to it as the Internet Boom.

    This event boosted the economy unbelivably

    Clinton did not do any spending cuts in the budget to balance it, it was the economy booming, that created an incredible amount of tax revenue.

    This unpredictable high levels of tax revenue, balanced the budget not Clinton.

    in 2000 when the bubble crashed, that came to an end.
    ------------------

    Bush takes over an economy that is in recession from Bill Clinton.
    Bush does his first TAX CUTS to stimulate the economy.

    IT WORKS!
    the year after the first tax cuts, RECORD LEVEL OF TAXES are collected.. YES thanks to the tax cuts, stimulating business, and the economy.. the GOVT actually collected more taxes!..

    Bush did make one mistake.. this mistake is he decided to "BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER" .. both democrats and republicans.. so he spent a lot of the new tax revenue on Democrat spending legislature.

    ---
    9/11 HAPPENS..

    Bush does his second TAX CUTS..
    again it works!
    Economy goes into a BULL MARKET from 2003-2007 WE WERE IN A BULL MARKET!!!

    Ok second BUSH mistake (maybe, time will tell) is going into an really expensive war in Iraq..

    Also.. something out of anyone's control is.. The wild speculation game on housing, started to burst and slow down.
    This is natural economy at work.. speculation/economy tends to be cyclical.. it has to go down, before it can go up again etc.

    but
    2 things all great empires had in common was.

    1. a strong army.
    2. International presence.

    We've had incredible Debt after wars before..

    after the Revolutionary War, the nation was in big debt.. it led to the creation of the First National Bank.

    and after the war of 1812 we were big in debt, which led to the creation of Second National Bank.. both these banks had 20 year mandats that eventually expired..

    now we have the 3rd National Bank.. which is the Federal Reserve, there was no expirationary date on it tho.. it has been around since 1913..

    but we should be able to get ourselves out of debt again.
    A lot of people would like to see the Federal Reserve abolished.. their real complaints are on inflation, because the bank has the power to print money..

    But historically it appears printing money is what got us back on track after the Revolutionary War, and the war of 1812, etc..

    so as much as it sucks I doubt the Federal Reserve is going away any time soon.
    The chief reason behind a National Bank, is for the funding of Wars.. or for funding speculation like right before the Panic of 1836..


    The good news is.. pretty much all other Nations have even worse inflation than we do.. so their Central Banks are working even more overtime than ours;... of course if they all do it, does not mean we should also.. and it is not something we are very used to.
    Last edited by Pooks; 02-06-2008 at 09:57 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooks View Post
    OK, well aside from my regular job, I am big into the economy, I trade commodities, currencies, stocks, options, anything and everything, plus I really like to enjoy looking at economic data like inflation numbers, or how certain things act in certain situations, etc etc.. so here' is what I've dug up over time when it comes to this argument...

    from 1994 or so - 2000.. there happened this non-political event in our country a lot of people would refer to it as the Internet Boom.

    This event boosted the economy unbelivably

    Clinton did not do any spending cuts in the budget to balance it, it was the economy booming, that created an incredible amount of tax revenue.

    This unpredictable high levels of tax revenue, balanced the budget not Clinton.

    in 2000 when the bubble crashed, that came to an end.
    ------------------

    Bush takes over an economy that is in recession from Bill Clinton.
    Bush does his first TAX CUTS to stimulate the economy.

    IT WORKS!
    the year after the first tax cuts, RECORD LEVEL OF TAXES are collected.. YES thanks to the tax cuts, stimulating business, and the economy.. the GOVT actually collected more taxes!..

    Bush did make one mistake.. this mistake is he decided to "BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER" .. both democrats and republicans.. so he spent a lot of the new tax revenue on Democrat spending legislature.

    ---
    9/11 HAPPENS..

    Bush does his second TAX CUTS..
    again it works!
    Economy goes into a BULL MARKET from 2003-2007 WE WERE IN A BULL MARKET!!!

    Ok second BUSH mistake (maybe, time will tell) is going into an really expensive war in Iraq..

    Also.. something out of anyone's control is.. The wild speculation game on housing, started to burst and slow down.
    This is natural economy at work.. speculation/economy tends to be cyclical.. it has to go down, before it can go up again etc.

    but
    2 things all great empires had in common was.

    1. a strong army.
    2. International presence.

    We've had incredible Debt after wars before..

    after the Revolutionary War, the nation was in big debt.. it led to the creation of the First National Bank.

    and after the war of 1812 we were big in debt, which led to the creation of Second National Bank.. both these banks had 20 year mandats that eventually expired..

    now we have the 3rd National Bank.. which is the Federal Reserve, there was no expirationary date on it tho.. it has been around since 1913..

    but we should be able to get ourselves out of debt again.
    A lot of people would like to see the Federal Reserve abolished.. their real complaints are on inflation, because the bank has the power to print money..

    But historically it appears printing money is what got us back on track after the Revolutionary War, and the war of 1812, etc..

    so as much as it sucks I doubt the Federal Reserve is going away any time soon.
    The chief reason behind a National Bank, is for the funding of Wars.. or for funding speculation like right before the Panic of 1836..


    The good news is.. pretty much all other Nations have even worse inflation than we do.. so their Central Banks are working even more overtime than ours;... of course if they all do it, does not mean we should also.. and it is not something we are very used to.
    I'd like to point out a few things to you..

    1) Bill Clinton consistently submitted balanced budgets to congress, with ZERO deficit, and consistently paid down the national debt. He even supported an amendment to the constitution requiring the budget to be balanced. Bush, Bush Sr, and Reagan all consistently spent more than was coming in, and all produced massive deficits and massive national debt for our children.

    2) The increased tax revenue you mention under the Bush years cannot necessarily be attributed to Bush's tax cuts. Had Bush's tax cuts (mostly for the wealthy) not been in place, tax revenue would have been much much higher still.

    3) When you say Bush "spent a lot of the new tax revenue on Democrat spending legislature", you must realize congress and the senate were republican for most of Bush's term.
    Last edited by Coop77; 02-06-2008 at 09:15 PM.

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