replacing aromasin for armidex in Anthony Robert PCT

[TallMan]

Is it allright to replace aromasin for armidex in the Anthony Robert PCT ?

[Njord]

Aromasin is used in the AR pct. If you mean the other way around, then you need to go read here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

[TallMan]

I know that aromasin is used in the AR pct, but I cant get that while I can get the rest of the stuff.

So I'm wondering if I can use another AI to replace it ?

[Big]

Nope needs to be aromasin. Here you go:
http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...4ce5e940a342f6

[TallMan]

Nope needs to be aromasin. Here you go:
http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...4ce5e940a342f6

Thanks, but I dont have a creditcard so I guess I'll just keep it nolvadex+hcg this time

[Merc..]

Yea , nolva has been shown to reduce the blood plamsa levels of type II ai's ( like adex , letro ).. Aromasin is a type I AI and is not affected ( reduced ) , by nolva ..



Merc.

[Merc..]

See this study .. Check what I highlighted in red ...


Interactions of antioestrogens and aromatase inhibitors.

Schmid P, Possinger K

Department of Oncology and Hematology, Charite Campus Mitte, Humboldt University Berlin, Germany.

Aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens have shown substantial activity in primary and advanced breast cancer. Since they exhibit different modes of action, attempts have been made to combine them or to use them sequentially in order to potentially increase their efficacy. In preclinical studies, combined, sequential or alternating treatments with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens have failed to provide higher antitumoural activity. There are relevant pharmacokinetic interactions resulting in decreased plasma concentrations of third generation aromatase inhibitors when combined with tamoxifen. Several randomised clinical trials comparing single agent and combined treatment with tamoxifen and aminoglutethimide failed to show any benefit for the combination. Early results of the adjuvant ATAC trial indicate that single agent anastrozole is superior to tamoxifen or the combination of both. Several trials are ongoing which might help to further define the role of sequential or combined treatment with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens. However, to date, looking at the current evidence, combined treatment with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens does not appear to provide additional benefit compared to single agent treatment.


Merc.

[TallMan]

thanks

I still have a long time to get it, so I guess I'd better look to get some

[Njord]

The study says decreased levels, not a complete elimination. It might not be a complete waste to run Arimidex with Nolva, just take into consideration that it will not be 100% effective.

[N4cer]

If you don't have a credit card, you could always get one of those prepaid gift cards that they sell in malls, Wal-Mart, and grocery stores.

[N4cer]

The study says decreased levels, not a complete elimination. It might not be a complete waste to run Arimidex with Nolva, just take into consideration that it will not be 100% effective.

Yes but aromasin's metabolites assist in freeing bound test.

[TallMan]

If you don't have a credit card, you could always get one of those prepaid gift cards that they sell in malls, Wal-Mart, and grocery stores.

I don't think they sell those in Holland...

[Merc..]

The study says decreased levels, not a complete elimination. It might not be a complete waste to run Arimidex with Nolva, just take into consideration that it will not be 100% effective.

Keep in mind that a tpye I ai ( aromasin) , does not need to be present to continue doing it's job on the aromatase enzyme ...

A type II AI ( like letro, adex), which can be partially eliminated nolva, and it needs to be present to continue it's aromatase inhibition .. Once a type I AI does it's job, the enzyme it's attached to is useless..

Merc.

[shifty_git]

Keep in mind that a tpye I ai ( aromasin) , does not need to be present to continue doing it's job on the aromatase enzyme ...

A type II AI ( like letro, adex), which can be partially eliminated nolva, and it needs to be present to continue it's aromatase inhibition .. Once a type I AI does it's job, the enzyme it's attached to is useless..

Merc.

So could over use of Aromasin be a bad thing? As once its made the enzyme usless your esto levels could crash 2 low and take a while to raise, so effect gains?

[N4cer]

Not really. Your body keeps producing more aromatase enzyme, so you'd still want the exemestane to be present in the bloodstream to handle it.

[shifty_git]

Not really. Your body keeps producing more aromatase enzyme, so you'd still want the exemestane to be present in the bloodstream to handle it.

So with the Aromasin having a half life of 27 hours and so therefore will needs to be taken daily to get stable plasma levels, a type 2 could be taken instead to lower estro, but a SERM like clomid could be supplemented to raise LH and then in turn natty test levels? therefore the same overall benefits of just the Aromasin?

that make sense? lol

[N4cer]

No, because the Type II reduces the SERM's concentration, lacks the same activity and metabolites, and total estrogen reduction is not a good idea during PCT, despite what the write-up fools say. You want a balanced hormone level, unless you wanna fight the balancing act also.

[shifty_git]

No, because the Type II reduces the SERM's concentration, lacks the same activity and metabolites, and total estrogen reduction is not a good idea during PCT, despite what the write-up fools say. You want a balanced hormone level, unless you wanna fight the balancing act also.

thought it was the SERM that reduced the concentration of the Type II? (what merc said in post 6) Or they both lower each other?

hmmm interesting..

so would you say the standard style pct of nolva / clomid / AI (Any type 2) is pretty useless?

[N4cer]

I think the AI lowers the SERM. Either way, a non-steroidal AI is a bad idea during PCT. Never has shown to be a good idea overall from the evidence I've seen. Just in select studies.

I still see no reason to run 2 SERMs in PCT. And nobody has explained in a way that makes sense.

That's not a standard PCT you're describing. That's just standard on this board. Standard PCT is just a SERM.

[Merc..]

No, because the Type II reduces the SERM's concentration, lacks the same activity and metabolites, and total estrogen reduction is not a good idea during PCT, despite what the write-up fools say. You want a balanced hormone level, unless you wanna fight the balancing act also.

..............................

[shifty_git]

I think the AI lowers the SERM. Either way, a non-steroidal AI is a bad idea during PCT. Never has shown to be a good idea overall from the evidence I've seen. Just in select studies.

I still see no reason to run 2 SERMs in PCT. And nobody has explained in a way that makes sense.

That's not a standard PCT you're describing. That's just standard on this board. Standard PCT is just a SERM.

Id persoanlly say it is pretty standard these days as majority of threads where people state there PCT theres an AI + a SERM, rather than just a SERM. But thats just what ive noticed since being on here more recently. (Observation rather than fact)

My angle of thought of why the 2 SERMs is what i said in my earlier post. Nolva cause people like its pure SERM qualities, Arimidex or Letro for its AI qualities, and the added clomid because of the LH effect.

But i can see why Nolva + Aromasin would be the more effective logical combination to achieve the final goal..