OT cycle ?

[awah37]

Hey guys new to the board. Would stacking d-bol 20mg with t- bol 30-40mg ed for the first 2 weeks be a good jump start on a 6-7 wk tbol cycle. i would bump up to around 40-50 mg after for the remaining. Would that put too much stress on the liver? i have not really made up my decision and thought i would get some opinions and suggestions on this. i also have and 50mg clomid from a past test e cycle which i also used dbol for 2weeks, if i could get some suggestions. i am not using any test as this is gunna be my first and maybe only oral only cycle

stats
age- 21
height- 5'9 ft
weight- 168lbs
bf%- 14%

[Dog-Slime]

Your 5'9 170 and this is not your first cycle? Hit up the diet forum bro.

[The WeaPoN]

usualy people only run one oral a cycle cause of the stress it puts your liver under i would suggest getting some test prop and running that for 6-8wks if you are keen to do a short cycle

[awah37]

well from what i heard t-bol doesn't effect the liver as bad as others, as for my diet, its fine, i lost all my weight due to a car accident in august, i was 210lbs at my peak, this is gunna be my 3rd cycle so i am a newbie if you want to say so. I dont have any test on hand and wont be able to get it for awhile. my goal is to roughly gain 15-30lbs just off orals, if i do use the dbol in a light dose for the first 2 weeks should i run pct 24hr after or should i wait till the whole cycle is done with?

[N4cer]

You need a cycle of food. And a PCT of reading. You have to be kidding to get online and even suggest you'd run 2 orals and not even include test.

[Dog-Slime]

well from what i heard t-bol doesn't effect the liver as bad as others, as for my diet, its fine, i lost all my weight due to a car accident in august, i was 210lbs at my peak, this is gunna be my 3rd cycle so i am a newbie if you want to say so. I dont have any test on hand and wont be able to get it for awhile. my goal is to roughly gain 15-30lbs just off orals, if i do use the dbol in a light dose for the first 2 weeks should i run pct 24hr after or should i wait till the whole cycle is done with?

Muscle memory is a beautiful thing. I would try to gain as much back as you can naturally before using any gear. You should be able to pack on the lbs very quickly at first. Then when things start slowing down throw some gear into the equation.

Anyways there is no need to jumpstart an oral with an oral. If you wanna do an oral only just take the t-bol solo. Should see good quick gains in LBM with low sides. I see no advantage to throwing in the dbol.

[awah37]

ok thanks man, i really didnt think it was a great idea myself thats why im just asking, im deffently not jumpstarting into anything that would be dumb but if my source doesnt get around by end of march im gunna run t-bol only just to see what happens, beleave me if i could get my hands on test i wouldn't be in here asking, just in here reading. Oh and ever since my recovery ive been focusing on diet and natural workouts this is future stuff

[Big]

if i do use the dbol in a light dose for the first 2 weeks should i run pct 24hr after or should i wait till the whole cycle is done with?

so you're asking if pct should be during or after the cycle?

[awah37]

well thats what i was wondering also, if i was to run dbol in the beginning what should i do bout pct, because i hear and read that t-bol you dont really need a heavy pct, but i dont think im gunna use dbol with tbol just a bad idea nd kind of pointless like n4cer says. ill jus save it till i can get sum test in the future. what would u recommend, sorry if i sound stupid im just trying to learn my best bout the situation im in

[shifty_git]

I personally wouldnt bother with an oral only cycle.. even if it just the one oral..

Test should be the base of any cycle.

[Dog-Slime]

^ I dont think that test HAS to be in every cycle. T-bol is not very suppressive at all and can create good gains in LBM in a short period of time. I see no harm in running it solo. I just came off a tbol only cycle and it was great. Gained around 9 lbs in 30 days (Was sick for over a week and lost weight or would have been more) and lost a lil bf. No sides. Just started PCT and dont feel suppressed at all.

[shifty_git]

^ I dont think that test HAS to be in every cycle. T-bol is not very suppressive at all and can create good gains in LBM in a short period of time. I see no harm in running it solo. I just came off a tbol only cycle and it was great. Gained around 9 lbs in 30 days (Was sick for over a week and lost weight or would have been more) and lost a lil bf. No sides. Just started PCT and dont feel suppressed at all.

what dose were you running it at?

[N4cer]

I call total BS on the idea of tbol being not very suppressive. It's stronger than var, and it's OLD news that var is suppressive in doses as low as 2.5mg/day. Show me where you got that idea from. I want bloodwork.

[awah37]

read the profile it seems less suppressive then most orals so i wouldnt say total bs, that and everyone reacts defferently,

[Dog-Slime]

what dose were you running it at?

Just 50mgs ED. I had some h-drol left over from my last cycle. Didn't have enough of it to do much with and its real similiar to t-bol so I threw it in with this cycle. Something like this

Days 1-9 50mgs Tbol Days 10-30 50mgs Tbol + 25mgs h-drol

Strength was good. Vascularity was really good. Was gaining about 3lbs a week but I got sick for a week in the middle of the cycle and lost everything I had gained up to that point. Still came out around 9lbs heavier in just 30 days and prob dropped a point in bf.

[Dog-Slime]

I call total BS on the idea of tbol being not very suppressive. It's stronger than var, and it's OLD news that var is suppressive in doses as low as 2.5mg/day. Show me where you got that idea from. I want bloodwork.

I dont have any bloodwork to confirm. But all my research has pointed to the fact that it is not very suppressive. I dont feel any of the symptoms of being shutdown (low sex drive, shrunken testicles, ETC...) Im sure I have been suppressed to some degree but I am definately still going to run a pct. Prob something simple like:

Week 1-2 Nolva 20mgs ED
Week 3-4 Nolva 10mgs ED



Here is something I have copied from another site that helps explain why its not very suppressive:

The Hypothalamus has Androgen, Estrogen, and Progesterone receptors.

Each and EVERY anabolic steroid affects these receptors DIFFERENTLY.

Some steroids affect ALL receptors, while some only affect ONE type of receptor, while others have very little effect on ANY of these receptors.

UNDERSTANDING WHICH steroids affect which receptors, and to WHAT DEGREE, will FULLY enable the steroid user to COMPLETELY and systematically AVOID HPTA SHUTDOWN!

By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

Steroids that cause an OVERSATURATION(too many receptors activated) of these various hormone receptors, WILL CAUSE SHUTDOWN.

Steroids that DO NOT CAUSE an OVERSATURATION of ANY of these various hormone receptors, will NOT cause SHUTDOWN!

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate ESTROGEN receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate PROGESTERONE receptors, to varying degrees:

Nandrolone
Trenbolone
Oxymetholone

The Following drugs activate Androgen receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone
Trenbolone
Halotestin
Oxandrolone
Stanzolol
Chlorodehydromethltestosterone
Methyltestosterone
Methenolone...
(ALL AAS*)

As we can see, the steroids that cause HPTA SHUTDOWN either OVERSATURATE ONE SPECIFIC receptor, or they activate too many TOTAL receptors(Androgen/Estrogen/Progesterone)

For instance, Trenbolone causes HPTA SHUTDOWN because it OVERSATURATES BOTH, the ANDROGEN and the PROGESTERONE receptors.

Testosterone causes SHUTDOWN because it converts to ESTROGEN and DHT, therefore, it oversaturates the Androgen/Estrogen receptors.

As we can ALSO SEE, the steroids that DO NOT cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA, do NOT oversaturate ANY of the different hormone receptors, and thus, do NOT cause SHUTDOWN.

Methenolone(Primobolan) does not possess ANY Estrogenic or Progestational ACTIVITY WHATSOEVER. It does, by virtue of being an anabolic steroid, posses a SMALL Androgenic component. Because it lacks ANY ESTROGENIC/PROGESTATIONAL component, and it lacks a strong Androgenic component, it WILL NOT CAUSE SHUTDOWN!

Oxandrolone(Anavar) posseses NO Estrogenic/Progestational component either. AND, it also lacks a strong androgenic component. Thus, Anavar will NOT cause shutdown.


By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

*It must also be noted, that ANY steroid in LARGE enough DOSAGES for long enough DURATIONS, can cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA.


NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren, Deca, Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.

[awah37]

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren, Deca, Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.

thats a nice way to put it where did you find this? i also like that you only ran for a month or so and gained 9lbs even when sick...maybe my short cycle i can get my min goal which would be nice just off an oral, you started at 50ed you didnt get any problems? Your running your pct at that low? can you pm me or put up a reply in this thread when your done with everything to let me no how turns out please

[Dog-Slime]

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren, Deca, Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.

thats a nice way to put it where did you find this? i also like that you only ran for a month or so and gained 9lbs even when sick...maybe my short cycle i can get my min goal which would be nice just off an oral, you started at 50ed you didnt get any problems? Your running your pct at that low? can you pm me or put up a reply in this thread when your done with everything to let me no how turns out please

I will pm you a link to the forums where I got that (it doesn't have sources but I get the feeling they wouldn't want it posted here). And if you are new to AAS then you can definately make some good gains on a t-bol only cycle, atleast if you respond as well to it as I do. After doing h-drol which is real similiar to t-bol I learned that after the 4th week the gains slowed down a lot and I started getting headaches. So I bought 6grams of tbol which I figured would allow me to do 4 cycles at 50mgs for 30 days. Hoping the next three go this well. If not I will add some prop or something to help out.

As for the pct, I think most people over do it with nolva. You only need high doses to prevent gyno. If you dont really have estrogen problems then a low dose is fine. I think 5mg-20mg of tamoxifen was shown to be very close to the same in raising testosterone levels. But if you are using research tamox citrate I would run atleast 20mgs as you need 30.4mgs of citrate to equal 20 of tamox and thats if its not underdosed.