First cycle oral vs injectable

[mxer_kx]

hello all ive been at these forums for a fair amout of time now trying to gather info(you can never have enough) but yet im still confused i know cycles or rather the compounds you chose to use(or shouldnt be using lol) greatly depend on stats, experience, effort you put into your lifting, dieting, cardio, etc. etc. so this is where it gets a little tricky as for results i would like to obtain i was leaning more to cutting up to 10% or lower then bulking closer to the winter but then im also not opposed to bulking up now then cutting up in the winter (hence the reason i am confused as to what i should do) so now that im kind open to either idea i was hoping for some input from more experianced people here. so let me finsih by saying

stats are
22 (23 in nov) , 185lbs, 5'6, higher teens in bodyfat % (have a little pouch on my lower abs ) lifting on and off since i was 16 always involved insports (played soccer for 14 yrs and football for 6) and dieting properly on and off for maybe 2 yrs maybe less

diet consists of
Meal one- 8 egg whites or whey protein (if im ever running late for work and dont have time to cook)and whole wheat toast/crackers or natural oatmeal

Meal two- can of tuna with 3/4 tbls of half fat mayo and 2 tbls of either natural peanut butter or flax seed (on ther own not with the tuna lol)

Meal three- chicken or steak strips and only sometimes some vegies be it brocolli and carrots or a cesar salad with fat free dressing or spinach(yes i know gotta eat my veggies btu you try not eating them for like 18 yrs then forcing them down lol)

Meal four - (pwo at the gym) liquid amino acid blend with 30gr of protein (whey)

Meal five- (ppwo right when i get home) two boneless skinless chicken breasts , sweet potatoes or brown rice and same thing for vegetables as meal 3

Meal six- (1/2 hr befor bed)whey protein with 1 1/2 tbls udos oil blend

Trainign
Morning cardio on a empty stomach 4-5(not on leg days and sometimes on only one or neither of my off days) days a week, training (weight lifting) monday - sholders/traps/fore arms tuesday legs/abs- wednesday off thursday chest/tris friday or saturday back and bi's sunday- off

and the propesed cycles were
cutting then bulking route-
weeks 1-6: tbol 40mgs
weeks 1-6: clen running benadryl at the 3rd week
weeks 6-8: pct nolva 20mgs a day

or the bulking then cutting route
week 1: 800mgs test enth froatloaded (2x 400mgs)
week 2-12: 400mgs test enth (2x 200mgs)
week 14-?: pct (unsure of wich pct protocol id like to followas of right now)

so any info would be good tips recommendations suggestions are greatly appreciated

[AaronJM1984]

you def. want to bulk then cut

[mxer_kx]

any particular reason as to that ? id udnerstand if i was "hard gainer" but i cant even remember the last time i was below 170 i personally have always found its alot harder for me to cut down then to bulk up ? for me to gain any weight be it fat or muscle i just gotta gotta eat eat eat and eat some more lol if i was going to bulk i would just eat 8 clean meals a day and lift but for cutting i would be eating 6 meals a day morning cardio and lift not that i mind the hard worker or anything thats why were in this right for the hard work and dedication im just trying to understand your reasoning as to why i should bulk rather then ?

[AaronJM1984]

I don't know if you should bulk or cut, thats up to you, I thought you were asking what to do first, you build muscle when you are bulking, you don't really build muscle when cutting, in fact you can lose muscle. So its whatever your goals are, do you wanna get more muscular then slim down, or do you just wanna slim down?

[mxer_kx]

well what im really trying to figure out is how bad (or good )is it to do a oral only cycle for your first go cause i was thinking and have in the past cut up nicely with clen and proper dieting and some am cardio but this time around id like to keep or infact gain some muscle during the six weeks but reading around on the forums yesterday i had some what of a change of my mind i had noticed several people using prop for a first cycle in the past i was kinda turned off by the idea of eod injections but the more i think about it the better prop sounds. you can run it for less time it kicks faster and less bloat so im starting to think prop would be best for my goals i can still gain some quality muscle while cutting up abit now im just thinking do is it recommended to run any other compounds with prop for your first go i know lots of people run winstrol but im kinda worried of the whole hair loss issue as ive been balding since i was 18 can any one suggest if i should use anything else for my first go to aid with fat loss and if so what ?

[BG]

That cutter doesnt look to bad, the bulker is was to high of dosages. At your age you could cut with no gear, be dedicated, get your diet in check.

[AaronJM1984]

For a first cycle I'd recommend Test E, if you want it to kick in faster, just frontload it, for instance if you were gonna run it for 8-12 weeks at 500mg a week (2 shots per week) you'd inject 1000mg the first week split into 2 shots (2 500mg shots)

Prop is also a good choice, but it can hurt like hell

I'm getting ready to start a Dianabol cycle
Most around here say its crap, but you can gain a lot of mass and keep it if your diet and pct is good

[BG]

^^^haha, keep thinking that.

[PT]

if i were you i would say screw the frontloading and screw the clen and run 500mgs of test for 10-12 weeks and you can decide if you want to bulk or cut. if you want to bulk then you up the calories. if you want to cut you eat healthy and do alot of cardio

[mxer_kx]

thanks guys appreciate it i was thinking prop over the test e/c because from what ive been reading with test e/c the common thing is it usualy takes 3-5 weeks to kick and prop was usual the frist 4-7 days so i was thinking

week 1-8: test prop 100 mg eod
week ?-?: ?? (any suggestions if anything should be added)
week 9-12: pheednos pct

[legobricks]

^^^haha, keep thinking that.

Ditto.


And you can cut on any steroid. If your eating clean during an enanthate cycle (as proposed) and keep your cardio up then you can get some nice lean gains. Youll most likely gain some bloat which goes away after cycle which leaves you with teh muscle gains you made. Once again, it all depends on your diet.

[legobricks]

thanks guys appreciate it i was thinking prop over the test e/c because from what ive been reading with test e/c the common thing is it usualy takes 3-5 weeks to kick and prop was usual the frist 4-7 days so i was thinking

week 1-8: test prop 100 mg eod
week ?-?: ?? (any suggestions if anything should be added)
week 9-12: pheednos pct

If your looking at a shorter cycle (6-8 weeks) with a quick build up in blood/hormone levels then prop would be the way to go. You may get sick of ED or EOD injections tho. What you could do is do the enanthate cycle and jumpstart with the prop for 4 weeks.

[mxer_kx]

cardio is not a problem as my gym is in the same building as my work so i just go befor work on a empty stomach and eat at work but as for recommendations on compounds are you guys recomending enth so to avoid eod injections?

[mxer_kx]

sorry didnt see your second post lego bricks you must have submitted as i was typing my response but as of right now im leaning to 8 weeks or prop any suggestions if a second compound is needed or beneficial for a 1st cycle ?

[legobricks]

Nope. Youll do great with a single compound by itself. More is not better and especially being your first cycle youll understand how test effects you.

[PT]

since this is your first cycle and you doing ed prop injections you may as well throw some painful winny injections in there as well

[PT]

i was obviously joking bro since they both hurt like he11. i would do a 12 week 500mg cycle of enth and you can jumpstart it with prop if you want

[AaronJM1984]

Alittle off topic, but there is an unlimited amount of proof that dianabol alone can produce some good results, what do you think bodybuilders of the 60 and 70s mainly used. Granted injectibles may produce better results, dianabol alone is not a bad cycle, too many parrots say otherwise.

[mxer_kx]

lol so for first cycle just stick with the prop no need for the winstrol then?

[coot589]

For first cycle test prop would be your best bet run for ten weeks at 500 a week front load if you want but I didn't and I gained thirty five pounds on first cycle but I would balk up first and then cut but if you want to look good for summer then use t3 and clen while on cycle or a lite oral like anavar but do not use any other orals on first cycle because you should see how your body reacts to test every one reacts different to all compound let use know of your result.

[coot589]

Test prop and winny only hurt to wussies I love the burn If you can't deal with the burn then after you fill your pin then draw in some soothing oil and shake pin then inject works for other I have never tried it myself

[Phate]

im sure one of the mods or vets already said this but if they havent i figured id be worth adding. about the 4 week time required to get peak blood levels of test while on test E, another alternative to using prop for the first 4 weeks is using 20mg/day of dianabol for the first four weeks as an oral like dianabol will have an almost immediate effect, though id make sure to run milk thistle with it for liver health.

[samcam]

For a first cycle I'd recommend Test E, if you want it to kick in faster, just frontload it, for instance if you were gonna run it for 8-12 weeks at 500mg a week (2 shots per week) you'd inject 1000mg the first week split into 2 shots (2 500mg shots)

Prop is also a good choice, but it can hurt like hell

I'm getting ready to start a Dianabol cycle
Most around here say its crap, but you can gain a lot of mass and keep it if your diet and pct is good

What are you talking about? First off frontloading is not necesssary and probably worthless and will not help it 'kick in' any faster and secondly a d-bol only cycle? Have you learned nothing around here? Yes you will gain some mass, mostly water but you won't be able to keep it after cycle, don't try to convince yourself that you can hold on to your gains from d-bol only, man up and add some Test in there.

[mxer_kx]

lol so 8 weeks wouldnt be enough for prop ? although test and dbol kicker sounds appealing wouldnt it give abit more of a bloating effect ?

[Phate]

test and dbol will have a more bloating effect than using prop because the shorter ester in the prop will cause you to retain less water. using the prop is also safer for your liver because dbol is an oral and is therefore heptoxic. if you can, i think it would be better to run the short ester (prop) and long ester(enth) cycle over the enth and dbol cycle if your afraid of bloating effect.

[mxer_kx]

ahhhhh what to do what to do you guys are making it difficultttt lol they all sound good these are the 3 im stuck between

first choice
weeks 1-8: Test Prop 100 mgs eod
weeks 9-12: pheendos pct

second choice
weeks 1-8: Test Prop 100 mgs eod
weeks ?-?: Winstrol(injectable) ??? eod (sugestions on duration and amount)
weeks 9-12: pheendos pct

third choice
weeks 1-4: dbol 40 mg ed
weeks 1-12: test enth. 200mg every 3.5 days
weeks 14-20: pheednos pct

so those are the 3 im stuck chosing between listed in order from most favourable to least any tips or suggestions guys

[BigRep]

Yeah, here you go:

400-500mg test enth or cyp every week, split into two shots (Monday and Thursday)
Frontload the first week

There's no reason for you to mess around with the other compounds right now and you shouldn't even be considering oral only at this stage. You'll grow like a weed off of the bread and butter cycle above.

[AaronJM1984]

Quick recap: Muscle gained from Dbol and muscle gained from other steroids are two different things? Why does everyone always say "You lose all of your gains from Dbol" Thats not true. Lets say you gain 20lbs. from a four week cycle of Dbol, 10-15lbs. of that is water, so after you drop the water, you're left with 5 lbs. of LBM, if diet and PCT is good. So whats wrong with 5lbs. in 4 weeks? Average users gain around 10-20lbs. of LBM from a 10-15 week cycle of test, so if you divide that weight up by the amount of time, they almost seem equal as far as the gains are concerned. True orals are much more harsh on the body, but they can be very effective, read up on your bodybuilding history, many of the greats built their bodies on Dbol. No disrespect intended, I respect your opinion.

Sorry to hijack BTW

[BG]

^^^Well you stick with your d-bol only cycle and we'll do things our way (squak). Your going to do a heptoxic cycle thats going to lead to shitty gains that drop off 4 days after you stop. Its ok your affraid to stick yourself, many are.

As far as the question asked, I dont think you need juice and as Pietro said, props a bitch for first cycle, pain, frequent injects....whats you inject rotation going to be???

[AaronJM1984]

^^^Well you stick with your d-bol only cycle and we'll do things our way (squak). Your going to do a heptoxic cycle thats going to lead to shitty gains that drop off 4 days after you stop. Its ok your affraid to stick yourself, many are.

As far as the question asked, I dont think you need juice and as Pietro said, props a bitch for first cycle, pain, frequent injects....whats you inject rotation going to be???

I've used test b4, and I am currently socking money away for a sust. dbol cycle this summer, but I already have 1000 tabs od dbol so I figured I'd experiment

[mxer_kx]

well i was thinking rotating between glutes and delts and as for the pain i guess no pain no gain im just curious would the pain be less cause im only injecting half a ml? (my props dosed at 200mg/ml) and as for no need to juice is that because im only gonna be 23 this year and have room to grow naturally or any other particular reason ?

[Phate]

if i were you i'd go to the doc and get ur growth plates checked and some blood work done. have they check to see if your plates are closed cause if they're still open then more than likely you're still growing. read this it'll explain it in detail

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=15197

i agree that an oral only cycle is not a good idea if you can help it, too heptoxic and not enough benefit, so with the test E cycle with Test Prop kickstarter, then you won't retain as much water meaning less blood pressure and you won't have to worry about the liver complications from an oral

[mxer_kx]

thank you very much for the info im just curious how come every one seems to be stearing away form the prop ? is it just cause of the frequent injections ? also what kind of reason could i use to ask for the blood work cause the last time at my family doctors i got into any kind of convo with my doctor about anabolics i got this enitre propaganda lecture about how ther bad and they cause liver cancer and al that good stuff lol

[Phate]

use a different hospital/clinic if you have to, if not then just say ur curious, they'll know ur lying but they'll probably do it anyway.

for first cycles we steer noobs away from prop because of the frequent and most of the time painful injections, which have to be done ed or eod, while test Cyp or Enth can be shot 2x a week. it also gets the person used to injecting and being able to find injection sites, btw, if you want to practice i'd get a bottle of cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin and inject that 2-3x a week at 1000mcg/mL an injection. it's vitamin b12 and since it's water soluable you can't really overdose on it since you'll just pee it out, inject it with a 25g needle and rotate sites, this will build up a little scar tissue so when you inject the test it won't be quite so painful and sore.

[BG]

well i was thinking rotating between glutes and delts and as for the pain i guess no pain no gain im just curious would the pain be less cause im only injecting half a ml? (my props dosed at 200mg/ml) and as for no need to juice is that because im only gonna be 23 this year and have room to grow naturally or any other particular reason ?

What you want can be acheived naturally with some dedication. AAS should be last resort after years of training naturally....until peaked.

[mxer_kx]

hey guys thanks for all your advice was just wondering about the injectable b12 is it sonmething a local pharmacy would carry or would i have to find somewhere to order that from? and im just curious is it that actual injection it self or after once its in your system and its just the general area that hurts cause from reading other peoples posts thats the impression i got

[mxer_kx]

and i forgot to mention how about things like cutting the prop 1:1 with injectable b12 or warming the prop befor injecting or massageing the site after injecting or using a heat pad to aid with the pain of prop ?

[Phate]

general area of injection for the most part, and depends on where you live for the b12, i'm in the U.S. so i can't get it from the pharmacy, PM me and i'll explain a little further

[Phate]

people cut things with b12, do a search on it for a detailed explaination

to warm the prop i'd fill up the syringe, then recap the needle and run the casing (the area where the prop is) under warm water for a minute or so, then change needle and inject

massaging the area for a minute or two will help alot with the pain, also rotating so you don't work a muscle the same day you inject into it will help

this could be just me but i don't get as sore when i leave the needle in for a few seconds after i finish with the injection

[mxer_kx]

so those thigns i listed are all worth while to do when dealing with prop and once again thanks for the help