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  1. #1
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    What is proper PWO nutrition???

    I recently received a PM regarding this topic and wanted to post a brief informative piece on it so here goes.

    This is a good question that warrants review because too many amateur bb’ers approach this aspect of training either haphazardly or not at all. Even though many of you know the basics of a PWO meal, you've probably never really investigated it thoroughly or adhered to what you know on a regular basis. The more astute members are probably already questioning the efficacy of a comprehensive (one-size-fits-all) PWO meal in light of the possible diversity of various workouts, and although this is true, this information focuses on all muscle-taxing weight training sessions which often includes some cardio (warm-up, cool-down, or both).

    Firstly, there are four acute effects of working out that your recovery strategy needs to address:
    1. Depletion of water and electrolytes
    2. Depletion of stored muscle glycogen (an important energy fuel)
    3. Muscle soreness
    4. Muscle-protein breakdown

    The faster you respond to these effects, the more quickly your body will return to homeostasis following the workout, and the more prepared it’ll be for the next one.

    Sensible PWO nutrition will help address all four of these issues. To rehydrate and replenish electrolytes (sodium, magnesium and potassium, which are essential for a host of bodily processes), ingest a sports drink immediately after the work out. You can restock muscle glycogen by consuming drinks or foods that are rich in high-glycemic (i.e. fast-acting) carbohydrates such as orange juice, a banana or the perennial favorite bowl of Cheerios.

    As many of you know muscle-protein breakdown is caused primarily by microscopic tears in muscle fibers/protein filaments, and by oxidative stress. Treat the former by taking in some protein after training, and the latter by getting antioxidants/anti-inflammatory vitamins namely, C and E in your system.

    Remember that fat (even EFAs) slow the flow of nutrients into the bloodstream, so pass on the urge to indulge figuring it won’t matter during this depleted state. Over the years, solid research has shown that eating more than one gram of protein for every four grams of carbs will inhibit gastric emptying and thereby delay recovery. Such data effectively subverts the conventional high or all protein PWO habits practiced by many which effectively stalls absorption. So the ideal combination for fast and full absorption is a 4 to 1 ratio of carbohydrates to proteins. Although I don’t have study data on hand, this is the fairly common knowledge on which many sports and endurance drinks are founded, and should be easily locatable…again this is supposed to be a brief. You can access any search engine and input “4:1 carbohydrate to protein ratio” for more detail.

    In review, here are the components that effectively counter the four work out induced bodily hindrances listed above:

    1. Depletion of water and electrolytes - Electrolytes in a water-based delivery system (tabs and caps are less effective)
    2. Depletion of stored muscle glycogen (an important energy fuel) - High glycemic carbs
    3. Muscle soreness - Vitamins C and E (natural antioxidant & anti-inflammatory duo)
    4. Muscle-protein breakdown - 4:1 carb to protein ratio

    Putting all this together would be daunting, especially when it comes to issues of portability and mobility, as well as the fact that most of us aren’t particularly hungry right after working out. Thus, for the serious bb’ing enthusiast it would make since to purchase a drink that does it all for you. There a few good ones to choose from, but be sure the above criterion are met. Although many “so-called” recovery drinks shortchange these components, there are a couple that fit the bill nicely including lower calorie and protein drinks G-Push G4 Recovery and Accelerade, and my personal favorite the high powered Endurox R4 in delicious fruit punch and decent tasting orange. Give these 30-40 minutes (the drive home and a shower for some) for full fluid-rate digestion, and enjoy your next meal without disrupting the ratios. Since I'd never just expect a thinking man to blindly believe anything click on the links for a few supporting studies...http://www.accelsport.com/product-in...e_studies.html, http://www.accelsport.com/product-info/endurox.html. You'll be fuller and feel better recovered...happy PWO to you all!!!
    Master Pai Mei of the White Lotus Clan



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  2. #2
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    Good info Magic ...


    Thanks


    Merc.

  3. #3
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    Good read magic.

  4. #4
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    Pretty much synonymous to what I read in Nutrient Timing. Just to add, if you do take the high-glycemic route, Dex and Malto can work as well. Having a good wholesome meal thereafter.

  5. #5
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    Thanks Magic,you got all the rite answers boss.

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    I was just wondering about all this the other day, wow, perfect timing for it, thanks!

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    good info,

    I like the oxidative stress stuff. Not many know what that is, I was excited when I saw that.

  8. #8
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    IronReload04 is offline "Rancid Protein Powder Mastermind Technician"
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    I tend to take this stance

    Justin Harris the man himself....troponin nutrition. one of the best their is.

    here is a short little video about post workout meals
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4xeN7WGgZc


    key points
    1. just get some food in you
    2. ronnie coleman and jay cutler DO NOT take post workout shakes, and they do fine for themselves.

  9. #9
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    Good post.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04 View Post
    I tend to take this stance

    Justin Harris the man himself....troponin nutrition. one of the best their is.

    here is a short little video about post workout meals
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4xeN7WGgZc


    key points
    1. just get some food in you
    AGREED THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT! BUT LIKE USING PCT WHY NOT BE AS EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE IN WHAT YOU DO?

    2. ronnie coleman and jay cutler DO NOT take post workout shakes, and they do fine for themselves.
    FIRSTLY, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT WITH ALL THE RESOURCES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, EITHER OF THESE GUYS PASS ON SOMETHING THIS FUNDAMENTAL, BUT SECONDLY BE SURE TO SEE THE LAST COUPLE SENTENCES IN THE POST BELOW WHICH STATE THE VERY THING. I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS THE ONLY AVENUE TO RECOVERY, JUST A VERY GOOD ONE.
    Master Pai Mei of the White Lotus Clan



    My motto: SAFETY & RESPECT (for drugs and others).

    I AM NOT A SOURCE, I DO NOT GIVE OUT SOURCES, OR PROVIDE SOURCE CHECKS.
    I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY UGL's OR ANY ORGANIZATION DEALING WITH THE DISTRIBUTION OF ILLEGAL NARCOTICS/SUBSTANCES!


    Difference between Drugs & Poisons
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=317700


    Half-lives explained
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...inal+half+life


    DNP like Chemotherapy, can be a useful poison, but both are still POISONS
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=306144


    BE CAREFUL!

  10. #10
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    A PM from AverageW:

    Quote Originally Posted by AverageWorkouts
    Wow awesome post on the PWO Drink. I just ordered some Endurox 4.

    It seems you take this drink so I have a few questions if you have the time.

    1. I do 30 minutes of cardio directly after my workouts. Should I wait and drink my PWO Endurox after im done or before the cardio?
    Definitely! The cardio work is still part of your workout. Even though it's not anabolic, it continues to tax multiple systems and thus sustains stress levels. Therefore you should wait until you’re completely finished before beginning recovery.

    2. Are there certain foods I should avoid eating even after 30 minutes of the Endurox? I don’t want to diminish its effects or ruin its purpose.
    No! Your workout creates a depleted environment that is ripe for rapid digestive processing at a very high absorption level. So after that initial half hour you can confidently consume whatever your typical regimen dictates without interrupting PWO processing.

    3. Should I continue to take my PWO Whey Protein (48 Grams aka 2 scoops ) or should I just save it for 30 minutes later and take it with my dinner?
    This is basically answered above, and thoroughly addressed within the initial post. What you're proposing changes the specified ratios, and thus the overall value of the recovery period in favor of slower less efficient, but not necessarily unimportant protein amounts. Remember this PWO formula is geared towards both swift & comprehensive recovery, so if you don't mind greater lag there are many other valid protocols that also lead to recovery. They just don't take full advantage of the metabolic uptake and repair because of subtle formula deviations. It should be noted that there are also other ancillary ingredients within these drinks, some of which were mentioned in above posts either here or within the other forums (in total Nutrition, Supplement & Lounge) where I posted this thread. I simply didn't go into great detail because they merely support the identified primary focuses of PWO recovery.


    Thanks for the informative post though, im new to all of this and Ive definatly been looking for some info on PWO Nutrition.
    Master Pai Mei of the White Lotus Clan



    My motto: SAFETY & RESPECT (for drugs and others).

    I AM NOT A SOURCE, I DO NOT GIVE OUT SOURCES, OR PROVIDE SOURCE CHECKS.
    I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY UGL's OR ANY ORGANIZATION DEALING WITH THE DISTRIBUTION OF ILLEGAL NARCOTICS/SUBSTANCES!


    Difference between Drugs & Poisons
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=317700


    Half-lives explained
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...inal+half+life


    DNP like Chemotherapy, can be a useful poison, but both are still POISONS
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=306144


    BE CAREFUL!

  11. #11
    IronReload04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32 View Post
    Good post.
    and just to elaborate some. I think what justin is saying that, ya, post workout drinks are thee very best thing you can take after working out......buuuut, not taking powders truthfully is not going to make or break you as a bodybuilder. I agree with him when he sais, if everyone was as obsessed with the other 23 hours in a day, as they are with the post workout drink, alot more people would be jacked. SO again, your thought out and planned recovery drink is second to none, but it wont kill ya not to take it, and food intake for the other 23 hours in a day is what gets the job done.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 200byjune View Post
    if the ratio is 4:1 how much protien do you need? so say i want 48g protien that mean i should take in 190g carbs?
    Not very much, see below for why. However, after this initial recovery bout, as stated earlier, the more customized (bulking, cutting, weight loss, etc.) meal depending on your specific needs should be consumed, and still registers greatly in the absorption department.

    But we're talking full recovery first!
    ----------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Braunstein View Post
    220by june, my thoughts exacteley...

    majic please post a sample shake for us please, because I just don't see this 4 to 1 thing happeneing...
    Endurox (Profile: http://www.accelsport.com/product-in...nutrition.html) is a great example of comprehensiveness. The theory here is that an abundance of protein is NOT what is immediately needed, firstly because the PWO meal should address multiple weaknesses, and secondly because it would slow overall processing. Some people are just unable to make paradigm shifts, and challenging the fallacy that we must be deluged with maximum amounts of protein as soon as possible is a deeply rooted one.

    ----------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04 View Post
    and just to elaborate some. I think what justin is saying that, ya, post workout drinks are thee very best thing you can take after working out......buuuut, not taking powders truthfully is not going to make or break you as a bodybuilder. I agree with him when he sais, if everyone was as obsessed with the other 23 hours in a day, as they are with the post workout drink, alot more people would be jacked. SO again, your thought out and planned recovery drink is second to none, but it wont kill ya not to take it, and food intake for the other 23 hours in a day is what gets the job done.
    I'm still wondering about your logic here. When exactly do we want to not do what doesn't kill us, again the same could be said for PCT. But if such things augment our results shouldn't we taking them, rather than pointing out that not taking them doesn't kill us?

    ----------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dicknang View Post
    Very interesting post. 4:1 carb to protein ratio seems a bit excessive. I have 40 grams of protein PWO and if I were to apply 4:1 to that it would mean 160 grams of carbs. That's a LOT of oatmeal, or sugar, or yams or whatever.

    The only info I could find regarding this 4:1 ratio was on the Accelerade website. I will admit it was backed up by studies etc, but it sounds a little bit like propaganda to me. Still, your post is definitely food for thought.
    Everyone is entitled to their own methodology, and strength athletes can go anywhere from 2:1 - 4:1, but too much protein AT CERTAIN TIMES namely, PWO can bog down the system reducing optimal recovery rates. This may not even be a concern of yours, which is also fine. However, there's plenty of data out there, though admittedly, the keywords I indicated yielded mostly ads and related forums so my apologies. But a quick search still provided much, and here's some of it:
    http://www.thedietchannel.com/Post-W...Late-Night.htm
    http://presteza.homestead.com/Why_Yo...in_Protein.pdf
    http://www.truthaboutabs.com/Post-Wo...Nutrition.html

    Again, just remember the point of this thread, which was to make you aware of the four primary weakness after working out, and the ways to swiftly and properly counteract them.
    -------------------------------

    I don't own stock in these drinks, nor am I seeking to make converts.
    I'm just a purveyor of information trying to raise awareness!
    Last edited by magic32; 04-27-2008 at 04:58 PM.
    Master Pai Mei of the White Lotus Clan



    My motto: SAFETY & RESPECT (for drugs and others).

    I AM NOT A SOURCE, I DO NOT GIVE OUT SOURCES, OR PROVIDE SOURCE CHECKS.
    I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY UGL's OR ANY ORGANIZATION DEALING WITH THE DISTRIBUTION OF ILLEGAL NARCOTICS/SUBSTANCES!


    Difference between Drugs & Poisons
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=317700


    Half-lives explained
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...inal+half+life


    DNP like Chemotherapy, can be a useful poison, but both are still POISONS
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=306144


    BE CAREFUL!

  13. #13
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    Immediately PWO: 70 grams waxy maize starch
    12 oz gatorade (endurance formula)
    10-15 grams BCAA's
    800 IU's vitamin e
    1 gram vitamin c

    20 minutes after WO: 40 grams whey protein
    8 oz OJ




    Last edited by xlxBigSexyxlx; 04-27-2008 at 04:58 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04 View Post
    I tend to take this stance

    Justin Harris the man himself....troponin nutrition. one of the best their is.

    here is a short little video about post workout meals
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4xeN7WGgZc


    key points
    1. just get some food in you
    2. ronnie coleman and jay cutler DO NOT take post workout shakes, and they do fine for themselves.
    In Ronnie Coleman's last video relentless he absoutly takes in post work out shakes.

  15. #15
    IronReload04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedic8ed1 View Post
    In Ronnie Coleman's last video relentless he absoutly takes in post work out shakes.
    ya, but what about when the camera is off? what justin speaks is the truth

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04 View Post
    I tend to take this stance

    Justin Harris the man himself....troponin nutrition. one of the best their is.

    here is a short little video about post workout meals
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4xeN7WGgZc


    key points
    1. just get some food in you
    2. ronnie coleman and jay cutler DO NOT take post workout shakes, and they do fine for themselves.
    My personal views on it are that 15-30 minutes after you workout you have a small window of opportunity (anaboilsm versus catabolism) where you need to replenish glycogen levels and blood glucose as well as give the body the tools as in protein to start repairing. Now if you can provide this via real food then great. However if you can not and I know many who cant then the best alternative is to take in an PWO shake based on Protein and Carbs. 40-60 minutes after the shake a nutritious meal is needed.

  17. #17
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    My PWO usually looks like this:
    0-15mins 10g Dextrose w/ 10g Glutamine
    15-30 10g Dextrose w/ BCAA's
    30min 25g Protein/90g Dextrose

  18. #18
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    Great post Magic! as always

  19. #19
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    thanks magic

  20. #20
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    anybody watch the program "Pushing the Body's Limits" on the discovery channel? showed how our muscles nerves and everything else works and all that?? very interesting stuff

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