Help converting my lean bulk diet to a cut

[M302_Imola]

Stats: 5’10”, 210 lbs., 13% bf
Current lean bulk diet:

Food---cals---fat---carbs---protein
Meal 1: 7:00 am
Whey protein shake---295---4---10---52
W/ 4oz. Soy milk
1 cup Oatmeal----------270---4---51---9
tbls Olive oil------------120---12---0---0
tbls Fish oil--------------90---10---0---0
Totals--------------------775---30---61---61

Meal 2: 9:00 am
1 can of tuna------------125---3---1---28
6 egg whites--------------96---0---0---18
½ cup Oatmeal----------150---3---27---5
Totals---------------------566---18---34---58

Meal 3: 11:00 am
Grilled Chicken Breast---240---13---2---26
1 cup Brown Rice---------170---1---35---4
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals------------------------440---14---41---31

Meal 4: 1:30 pm
1 can of tuna----------------125---3---1---28
1 oz almonds----------------204---18---7---7
½ cup Oatmeal--------------150---3---27---5
Totals-------------------------504---22---34---44

Meal 5: (Pre-workout) 3:30 pm
Whey protein shake--------240---2---6---48
W/ water
¾ cup Oatmeal--------------225---3---40---7
Totals-------------------------465---5---46---55

Workout: 4:30-6:00 (including cardio)

Meal 6: (PWO) 6:00 pm
PWO Shake w/--------------486---2---66---48
Whey and WMS

Meal 7: 7:30 pm
8 oz. Talapia-----------------200---2---0---42
Swt. Potato-------------------215---2---44---5
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals-------------------------445---4---48---48

Meal 8: 10:00 pm
Bedtime Shake w/---------------550---18---18---64
Whey, 1 cup cottage
Cheese, 2 tbls. Natty PB

Grand Total----------------------4181---117---348---405
Fat = 26%
Protein = 40%
Carbs = 34%

BMR = 2042.32
Activity = 1.725
Maintance cal = 3523

[M302_Imola]

My goal is to be around 190 lbs. @ 8% bf.

[M302_Imola]

Ok I will get the ball rolling. I need to reduce my carb intake, so what would be the optimal times for me to consume carbs? Breakfast, pre-workout, PWO, PPWO? Would you start the cut diet with carbs at maintenance or at a deficit? I want to lose the weight slowly to ensure I am retaining muscle.

[teufelhundenjwa]

What is your BMR? A good rule of thumb is to take your maintenance calories and subtract 500 from it (cutting). For example we'll say an individual has a BMR of 2200 calories per day. Subtract 500 calories from that and your left with 1700. Macro percentages are as follows:
50% protein = 212.5g = 850 cal
30% fat = 57g= 513 cal
20% carb = 85g = 340

Carbs should be consumed Pre WO/Post WO. Other meals should consist of a healthy fat/lean protein/green fibrous veggies.

You mentioned carb cycling...I'd go with a 3 low 1 high approach. Every 4th day double the carbs and drop the fats.

[M302_Imola]

What is your BMR? A good rule of thumb is to take your maintenance calories and subtract 500 from it (cutting). For example we'll say an individual has a BMR of 2200 calories per day. Subtract 500 calories from that and your left with 1700. Macro percentages are as follows:
50% protein = 212.5g = 850 cal
30% fat = 57g= 513 cal
20% carb = 85g = 340

Carbs should be consumed Pre WO/Post WO. Other meals should consist of a healthy fat/lean protein/green fibrous veggies.

You mentioned carb cycling...I'd go with a 3 low 1 high approach. Every 4th day double the carbs and drop the fats.

Hey thanks for the reply. My BMR is listed above. I know the general rule of thumb is to subtract 500 from your maintenance, but I was looking for more of a customized opinion. Looking for some personal tips that you guys have used and had success with while cutting. The macro percentages you listed look about right, those are similar to what I was estimating. No carbs with breakfast? I thought that carbs first thing in the morning were vital? Seems to me that around 3,000 cals would be a good starting point. At this point I am not sure carb cycling will be my best option. I was thinking about incorporating it into my cut when I start to plateau on down the road.

[teufelhundenjwa]

Kewl mang, didn't see your BMR before. Check out this thread, post number 7...http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=342488
The change you see are a direct result of carb cycling.
As to carbs first thing in the morning, I work out at 5 AM so my carbs are eaten during meal 1 and 2. Simplifies it for me. I take it you work out in the evening?

[audis4]

Stats: 5’10”, 210 lbs., 13% bf
Current lean bulk diet:

Food---cals---fat---carbs---protein
Meal 1: 7:00 am
Whey protein shake---295---4---10---52
W/ 4oz. Soy milk
1 cup Oatmeal----------270---4---51---9
tbls Olive oil------------120---12---0---0
tbls Fish oil--------------90---10---0---0
Totals--------------------775---30---61---61
Ok, fat is way to high in this meal. Make it simple. Do oats/whole food. No whey here. This will reduce some cals.
Meal 2: 9:00 am
1 can of tuna------------125---3---1---28
6 egg whites--------------96---0---0---18
½ cup Oatmeal----------150---3---27---5
Totals---------------------566---18---34---58
where did you get 18g fat?
Meal 3: 11:00 am
Grilled Chicken Breast---240---13---2---26
1 cup Brown Rice---------170---1---35---4
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals------------------------440---14---41---31
grilled chicken breast w/ 13g fat?
Meal 4: 1:30 pm
1 can of tuna----------------125---3---1---28
1 oz almonds----------------204---18---7---7
½ cup Oatmeal--------------150---3---27---5
Totals-------------------------504---22---34---44
drop the almonds. Not a problem just trying to reduce cals a bit.
Meal 5: (Pre-workout) 3:30 pm
Whey protein shake--------240---2---6---48
W/ water
¾ cup Oatmeal--------------225---3---40---7
Totals-------------------------465---5---46---55
Don't do whey before workout. You need a slower absorbing protein. Do whole food i.e chicken w/oats
Workout: 4:30-6:00 (including cardio)

Meal 6: (PWO) 6:00 pm
PWO Shake w/--------------486---2---66---48
Whey and WMS
Good.
Meal 7: 7:30 pm
8 oz. Talapia-----------------200---2---0---42
Swt. Potato-------------------215---2---44---5
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals-------------------------445---4---48---48
good, this is your PPWO meal.
Meal 8: 10:00 pm
Bedtime Shake w/---------------550---18---18---64
Whey, 1 cup cottage
Cheese, 2 tbls. Natty PB
Drop the shake. I would just to 1 cup f/f cottage cheese w/ PB.
Grand Total----------------------4181---117---348---405
Fat = 26%
Protein = 40%
Carbs = 34%

BMR = 2042.32
Activity = 1.725
Maintance cal = 3523

Ok, check out my bold statements above. Some are questions.

I see your bulking at 4,181 cals and your maintenance is 3,523 cals.

I want you to keep all of your hard earned gaines. I would drop cals down to around 3,800 for the first week with moderate cardio. After about 1-2 weeks assess your goals/progress and drop cals down to maintenance. If you're like me, you might want to just say fvck it! I'm just gonna drop several hundred below maintenance....trust me, don't do it I've been sorry!

After one week or so on maintenance drop cals a few hundred below maintenance. I would keep cals right under maintenance and slowly ramp up cardio until you plateau and then slowly drop cals a little more.

Good luck bro, hit me up with any more questions!

[M302_Imola]

Kewl mang, didn't see your BMR before. Check out this thread, post number 7...http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=342488
The change you see are a direct result of carb cycling.
As to carbs first thing in the morning, I work out at 5 AM so my carbs are eaten during meal 1 and 2. Simplifies it for me. I take it you work out in the evening?

yes I workout in the evening

[M302_Imola]

Ok, check out my bold statements above. Some are questions.

I see your bulking at 4,181 cals and your maintenance is 3,523 cals.

I want you to keep all of your hard earned gaines. I would drop cals down to around 3,800 for the first week with moderate cardio. After about 1-2 weeks assess your goals/progress and drop cals down to maintenance. If you're like me, you might want to just say fvck it! I'm just gonna drop several hundred below maintenance....trust me, don't do it I've been sorry!

After one week or so on maintenance drop cals a few hundred below maintenance. I would keep cals right under maintenance and slowly ramp up cardio until you plateau and then slowly drop cals a little more.

Good luck bro, hit me up with any more questions!

Thanks for the reply bro, plenty of good feedback. Meal 1 would you suggest me dropping both the olive oil and fish oil or keep one? I would love to consume some egg whites or other whole food protein source but this is a hurry meal and the whey shake is consumed on my way to work at 6 am. Meal 2 I forgot to include a handful of peanuts, that is where the 18g of fat is coming from. Would you drop the peanuts out of this meal? Meal 3 I should have made clear that I use Dale's low sodium to marinate the chicken which gives it a little more fat. Meal 4 instead of dropping the almonds would it not be beneficial to just drop the carbs in this meal to reduce the calories? Meal 5 I will drop the whey and eat some tuna in its' place. Meal 7 I finally learned what PPWO stands for, yes. Meal 8 truth is I hate the texture of cottage cheese, so I blend it up with some choc whey (for flavoring) and some natty pb. I have thought about buying some casein protein and having it with some natty pb to replace the cottage cheese and whey would you suggest this? As far as carbs, do you not think I would have better results cutting limiting them to breakfast, pre-workout, and post workout and maybe PPWO? So from your personal experience from above did you lose a lot of muscle when you dropped a few hundred below maintenance? Did you shed to much weight to quickly? Sorry for all the questions but this is the first time I have cut.

[audis4]

^^ok, heres what you should do for meal 1. If you go to your grocery store, find the pasteurized egg whites in the tall skinny carton. You can drink straight from the carton if you're in a hurry. I would blend the amount of egg whites you need with some whey.

I would just blend up some oats in your shake, too much fat for meal 1 IMO.

I have class right now....i'll address the rest of your meals when I come back!

[M302_Imola]

^^ok, heres what you should do for meal 1. If you go to your grocery store, find the pasteurized egg whites in the tall skinny carton. You can drink straight from the carton if you're in a hurry. I would blend the amount of egg whites you need with some whey.

I would just blend up some oats in your shake, too much fat for meal 1 IMO.

I have class right now....i'll address the rest of your meals when I come back!

Thanks bro looking forward to your response.

[audis4]

MEAL 2 looks good, go ahead and keep the nuts (we don't want to drastically drop cals).

As far as MEAL 3, is there any sugars in the marinade? If so I would probly drop that.

MEAL 4, keep the carbs drop the fat.

MEAL 5 sounds good

No, I didn't lose by dropping below maintenance, I lost by dropping carbs off too quickly which in turn dropped cals to drastically.

Try to get cottage cheese (throw in some cinnamon/splenda) and a little whey with some oats right after your workout (PWO)

By all mean, try to keep carbs in every meal! I would try to get in oats in every meal if possible due to their low GI. You may even want to throw in some metamucil to slow digestion, especially when your really hungry.

I found when I do oats in every meal while cutting (usually around 200-220g carbs for the day) I actually slowly gain strength and lose the fat.

Pre bed, I would go for something like cottage cheese (i know you don't like it but it will keep you full overnight and you can mix with some whey) with a couple TB of natty PB.

Check out the cutting diet I posted in my thread (lean bulk). It's all about keeping it simple; makes it much more effective for me!

hit me back!

[M302_Imola]

MEAL 2 looks good, go ahead and keep the nuts (we don't want to drastically drop cals).

As far as MEAL 3, is there any sugars in the marinade? If so I would probly drop that. I will check to see the sugar content I think there might be 2 grams

MEAL 4, keep the carbs drop the fat. Sounds good I will drop the almonds

MEAL 5 sounds good

No, I didn't lose by dropping below maintenance, I lost by dropping carbs off too quickly which in turn dropped cals to drastically.

Try to get cottage cheese (throw in some cinnamon/splenda) and a little whey with some oats right after your workout (PWO) Would 1/2 cup of cottage cheese be enough to add in?

By all mean, try to keep carbs in every meal! I would try to get in oats in every meal if possible due to their low GI. You may even want to throw in some metamucil to slow digestion, especially when your really hungry.

I found when I do oats in every meal while cutting (usually around 200-220g carbs for the day) I actually slowly gain strength and lose the fat.Sounds good but if you look at my macros I am well over 200g of carbs, how can I bring this number down?

Pre bed, I would go for something like cottage cheese (i know you don't like it but it will keep you full overnight and you can mix with some whey) with a couple TB of natty PB. I can do cottage cheese as long as I blend it up, but would some ON casein be acceptable with some natty pb?

Check out the cutting diet I posted in my thread (lean bulk). It's all about keeping it simple; makes it much more effective for me! I can see from that diet that you keep fats pretty low, I will try dropping mine some.

hit me back!

Thanks man you have been a big help!
comments in bold above

[audis4]

^^ sounds great!

As far as the cottage cheese. Try to get 1 cup of FF c/c with whey. 1/2 cup wouldn't yield enough protein IMO. Sure you could up the whey but I like more of a slower digesting protein.

As far as your macros being over 200g....Just reduce the portion sizes slightly. You're a decent sized guy, you wanna make sure you keep your carbs up. Remember as long as your calories are set in the right spot, you really don't need to worry about your carbs being too high; make sure you're getting enough protein and good fats.

Yea, as far as your last meal, go ahead and blend it up.
When cutting, I will throw in some red meats to up the fats a bit but I try to get 50-60g of good fats. As far as the almonds and natty pb and some red meat, you'll be good to go

btw, sorry it took me so long to respond, came home for mother's day! I'll be checking off and on for the day so hit me back with questions bud! If you want, go ahead and throw up a 'proposed' cutting diet with macros and I will help you out!

Keep in touch!

[M302_Imola]

[QUOTE=audis4;3972907
btw, sorry it took me so long to respond, came home for mother's day! I'll be checking off and on for the day so hit me back with questions bud! If you want, go ahead and throw up a 'proposed' cutting diet with macros and I will help you out!

Keep in touch![/QUOTE]
No worries bro on the delayed repsonse. My computer was down all weekend so I just received your response today. I am going to work up a cutting diet and post it here in a few.

[M302_Imola]

Food---cals---fat---carbs---protein
Meal 1: 7:00 am
Whey protein shake---295---4---10---52
W/ 4oz. Soy milk
1 cup Oatmeal----------270---4---51---9
Totals--------------------565---8---61---61

Meal 2: 9:00 am
1 can of tuna------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites--------------48---0---0---9
½ cup Oatmeal----------150---3---27---5
tbls fish oil---------------90----10---0---0
Totals---------------------413---16---28---42

Meal 3: 11:00 am
Grilled Chicken Breast---240---13---2---26
1 cup Brown Rice---------170---1---35---4
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals------------------------440---14---41---31

Meal 4: 1:30 pm
Whey protein shakes--------240---2---6---48
W/ water
1/2 cup Oatmeal-------------150---3---27---5
1 oz almonds----------------204---18---7---7
Totals-------------------------594---23---40---60

Meal 5: (Pre-workout) 3:30 pm
1 can of tuna----------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites------------------48---0---0---9
½ cup Oatmeal--------------150---3---27---5
Totals-------------------------323---6---28---42

Workout: 4:30-6:00 (including cardio)

Meal 6: (PWO) 6:00 pm
PWO Shake w/--------------486---2---66---48
Whey and WMS

Meal 7: 7:30 pm
8 oz. Talapia-----------------200---2---0---42
Swt. Potato-------------------215---2---44---5
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals-------------------------445---4---48---48

Meal 8: 10:00 pm
Bedtime Shake w/---------------550---18---18---64
Whey, 1 cup cottage
Cheese, 2 tbls. Natty PB

Grand Total----------------------3816---91---330---396
Fat = 22%
Protein = 42%
Carbs = 36%

BMR = 2042.32
Activity = 1.725
Maintance cal = 3523

Cutting diet listed above. I am having trouble dropping the calories without dropping my carb intake. I think that maintance would be a good place to start. Help me tweek my diet to get it down to my maintance caloric level. Should I lower my carb intake for the first meal, or is there a meal you see that I could drop carbs all together? Thanks for the help.

[audis4]

Food---cals---fat---carbs---protein
Meal 1: 7:00 am
Whey protein shake---295---4---10---52
W/ 4oz. Soy milk
1 cup Oatmeal----------270---4---51---9
Totals--------------------565---8---61---61
switch the whey to whole food. Cut the milk.
Meal 2: 9:00 am
1 can of tuna------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites--------------48---0---0---9
½ cup Oatmeal----------150---3---27---5
tbls fish oil---------------90----10---0---0
Totals---------------------413---16---28---42
Good.
Meal 3: 11:00 am
Grilled Chicken Breast---240---13---2---26
1 cup Brown Rice---------170---1---35---4
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals------------------------440---14---41---31
Good.
Meal 4: 1:30 pm
Whey protein shakes--------240---2---6---48
W/ water
1/2 cup Oatmeal-------------150---3---27---5
1 oz almonds----------------204---18---7---7
Totals-------------------------594---23---40---60
switch to whole food. other than that, looks good.
Meal 5: (Pre-workout) 3:30 pm
1 can of tuna----------------125---3---1---28
3 egg whites------------------48---0---0---9
½ cup Oatmeal--------------150---3---27---5
Totals-------------------------323---6---28---42
Good, if need be, add a bit more carbs here and deduct from another meal.
Workout: 4:30-6:00 (including cardio)

Meal 6: (PWO) 6:00 pm
PWO Shake w/--------------486---2---66---48
Whey and WMS
fine.
Meal 7: 7:30 pm
8 oz. Talapia-----------------200---2---0---42
Swt. Potato-------------------215---2---44---5
Broccoli-----------------------30---0---4---1
Totals-------------------------445---4---48---48
good.
Meal 8: 10:00 pm
Bedtime Shake w/---------------550---18---18---64
Whey, 1 cup cottage
Cheese, 2 tbls. Natty PB
no need for whey in your last meal. Just use c/c and PB.
Grand Total----------------------3816---91---330---396
Fat = 22%
Protein = 42%
Carbs = 36%

BMR = 2042.32
Activity = 1.725
Maintance cal = 3523

Cutting diet listed above. I am having trouble dropping the calories without dropping my carb intake. I think that maintance would be a good place to start. Help me tweek my diet to get it down to my maintance caloric level. Should I lower my carb intake for the first meal, or is there a meal you see that I could drop carbs all together? Thanks for the help.

Yes, I agree, lets drop your cals by about 300 cals. In bold.

That should drop cals a bit. Ya, try to get them right around 3,500 for the day.
Let me see what you change and we'll go from there!
Good luck bud!

[M302_Imola]

audis4 I went to the grocery store the other day to look for some pasteurized egg whites and all I could find was egg beaters egg whites. I don't think they were pasteurized though. I know that them being pasteurized is important because your body can not process raw egg whites (unpasteurized). Is there a particular brand you use? They should say pasteurized on the front right? I am making adjustments to my cutting diet as we speak, will have it editted soon.

[audis4]

ah man, just threw my carton away this morning. I'll tell you the brand when I buy some more.
You may want to ask someone that works at your grocery store but generally eggs in the cartons ARE pasteurized.
Keep me posted bro!

[M302_Imola]

ah man, just threw my carton away this morning. I'll tell you the brand when I buy some more.
You may want to ask someone that works at your grocery store but generally eggs in the cartons ARE pasteurized.
Keep me posted bro!

I will be going back to the store this weekend so hopefully I will find the right kind. What are you thoughts on substituting some brocoli for some of the oats in say meal 2 & 4? That should drop me down about 300 calories and drop my overall carbs by about 50g. I can edit my diet if you think this substitution would be beneficial?

[audis4]

I will be going back to the store this weekend so hopefully I will find the right kind. What are you thoughts on substituting some brocoli for some of the oats in say meal 2 & 4? That should drop me down about 300 calories and drop my overall carbs by about 50g. I can edit my diet if you think this substitution would be beneficial?

I'd keep your carbs where you have them right now, they look to be good.
Let me see your final diet when you have it finished!

Keep broccoli in most meals (about 1 cup worth), you really don't need to count these macros.