expert advice would be GREAT!

[musclenict]

I usually pyramid down when ending a cycle I have had great success with doing this. On this last cycle I stayed on longer than usual and did not pyramid down. For about 14 days I have been in HELL. depression, lack of confidence all around tired, no sexual appetite at all. I was waiting for the my 18th day off cyp to start a pct,( I have been using OTC supps for post cycle therapy along with trib and long jack) my pct is Clomid and Nolva, now my question is the last 4 days I have felt pretty good with great intensity hitting the wieghts and last night wanted and had sex. Since it is obvious my test is coming back, should I go ahead and do a pct of Clomid and Nolva or just continue and let my body come back with the OTC supps??? any advice would be great, I simply do not want to put my body/mind back into a crappy state like I was in for 2 weeks plus. thanx

[RaWRZ0R!]

how long have you been doing Clomid and Nolva?

[Reed]

So you stopped your last injection and for 14 days after the last injection you were depressed. Now in the last 4 days your libido has increased and your feeling better, is that correct?? Your libido does not have anything to do with your test levels. The trib and long jack are working but you need to continue on with your PCT. Trib and long jack increase your libido not your test levels. OTC companies will try to fool you into thinking that because you have a higher sex drive then your test levels are increasing. This is simply not true

[Reed]

But i'm no expert.....

[musclenict]

how long have you been doing Clomid and Nolva?

it is time to start now, this is my 18th day since last cyp injection. after reading Reed it sounds like I need to go ahead and start my PCT of clomid and nolva, correct?PCT

[LATS60]

it is time to start now, this is my 18th day since last cyp injection. after reading Reed it sounds like I need to go ahead and start my PCT of clomid and nolva, correct?PCT

Sounds good, no time like the present, go with the PCT.

[V-TEC E8TER]

clomid will make you more dipressed ... well it does to me atleast.

what dosage of clomid and nolva are you running.

I like to do this. 14 days after last inject 300mg clomid for 3 days, 150 mg for 8 days, 50mg for 14 days. After that I usually am recovered.

Nolva on the other hand is extremely potent it takes 20mg of nolva to do was 150-200mg of clomid can. I personally do not run nolva for that reason unless i show signs of gyno.

Also, zinc magniseum and tribulus will help bring natty test levels back up quicker.

[Reed]

Yeah depression and anxiety seem to be a side effect of clomid. I didn't really have a problem with it. I would recommend to take an AI like aromasin next time. Some people swear by it but I don't see the need for two SERM's in a PCT. Go to the PCT thread and read the stickies you'll get a much better understanding of what I mean.

[Branch_w]

im no expert but i can tell u no otc supplements are good enough for your pct after that cycle ...go ahead and take your nolva andor clomid , just use the trib alongside should help a little. Of course u are depressed with test levels being low and not feeling like an animal as when on cycle it cant be any other way. Just do the best u can with your pct and diet to keep your gains and you should be back to your normal self ( not as when on test but natural) after your pct..if ur not half assin it .

[musclenict]

this is what I have planned to follow gathered from this site, is this good?? PCT's dont change dramatically, I dont think, even for supplement(s) cycles.

There seems to be a never ending number of, "What PCT for Sust/Deca?", "What PCT for Dbol/Test?".

When using androgens, that cause shutdown or inhibtion, the PCT should remain, mostly, unchanged. 95% of cycles cause complete shutdown (shutdown of endogenous testosterone production). Cyles containing Testosterone or 19-Nors, will cause almost complete testicular shutdown. Therfore an aggressive PCT is needed.

Use an AI if you havent used one when "on" to lower estrogen, which is extremely suppressive (leydig cells) during PCT.

Use proven SERMs (Clomid, Nolva).

Use Tormifene, which has recently been reported to be the best SERM at restarting an inhibited HPTA.

Use HCG when "on" to maintain testicular size/function.

My advice is:

Steroid/ProHormone cycle causing HPTA shutdown (HCG may not be needed in cycles below 6 weeks IMHO)

Use HCG 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly. 10-15 days from PCT, ramp your HCG to 250-500ius and ramp you AI slightly. This will cause a spike in endogenous testosterone and aromotase. We then use PCT to restart GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH/FSH from the pituitary. When beginning PCT, which to another AI also.

wk 1-5 Clomid 25-50mg/ED OR Torm 120/60mg/ED
wk 1-5 Nolva 20mg/ED OR Torm 60mg/ED
*Aromasin 25mg/ED OR Arimidex 0.5-1mg/ED

Tribulas or another labido enhancer (Proviron).

Supplement cycle inhibiting the HPTA


wk 1-4 Clomid 25-50mg/ED OR Torm 60mg/ED
wk 1-4 Nolva 20mg/ED

Trib or another labido enhancer.


Thats it. Read the sticky's.

There are far too many "What PCT" threads here.
Last edited by Swifto; 06-21-2008 at 05:30 PM.
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