Week Seven Of Cycle...Not Too Hot

[Terinox]

Alright, i'm entering week 7 of my cycle. Doing 200mg of Enanthate every 4 days, I did 25mg of DBol from weeks 2-5. I still have 4 weeks of Winny coming up. I don't know what I did wrong, but this cycle doesn't seem to go anywhere.

So far, i've gained a little under 10 pounds. I haven't seen anything dramatically change. My strength has gone up, not too much though. Some examples: bench 185 to 205, rows 130/140 to 160/170, military 135 to 155. Those are just some examples of how my strength has increased in strength. But like I said, not a big deal.

In terms of food, i'm eating about 5 meals a day, getting 200 grams of protein in me. I workout 5 days a week for about 1 hour to 1.5 hours quite intense. My workouts seem to be good, I get great burn and everything, but I don't seem to be gaining much.

I don't know wat's wrong, maybe I just need to do alot more juice next cycle. I'm already planning next cycle out. I will probably do it next fall (September 2003)

Here is how it will probably look:

Weeks 1-4 = Dianabol @ 40mg/day
Weeks 1-10 = Enanthate @ 300mg/4 days = 525mg/week
Weeks 1-10 = Equipose @ 200mg/4 days = 350mg/week

That's what I was thinking about for now...not sure.

What you think? About the cycle i'm on right now and how it's fucked up, and also about the cycle I will do next year.

[Red5]

You say your eating 5 meals a day, but how much are you eating at each meal? Try upping your calories especially your protien.

[kreper69]

up the calories bro, and 200 grams of protein is not enough. i always use 2 grams of protien per pound of body weight.

[beenie]

Personally I am not completely surprised. You are 18 or 19, right? I think you test levels were pretty high to begin with, so the bump that you get is not as great as someone who is a bit older.

This being said, I AM surprised you haven't seen a size increase, given the d-bol run at the beginning.

Have you been working with a vet on your plan? What did he tell you to expect and what were YOU expecting?

[Jack87]

Those gains are very low.... As far as the 18 or 19 years of age thing goes, I had a friend who insisted at 19 to do a cycle and he gained roughly 28lbs and his bench went from 165lbs for reps to 275 for reps...

You didn't say how many calories you're eating, but if they are high enough I'd question weather or not your gear is legit, or underdosed...

[hammerhead]

I'm obviously in need of a thread like this one myself. In the 10 or so cycles i've done in my life - 3 of them this year - i've never gained anything like what you're saying you've gotten - and you're complaining about it. I'd be very happy with the gains you've gotten on this cycle. I'm currently doing - fuck it i'll start another thread this one is yours.

When i'm not gaining the first thing I always do is eat more and cut back on fats and sugar. Nine times out of ten with me it's the diet that slacking off and i've got to discipline myself to get back on it like I should be.

[jamotech]

You said the strength hasent increased much, are you pushing yourself hard enough? By that I mean when I've done as the strenght dosent just come out and surprise me, I need to push myself to do weight that I dont really think I can do. Its like this for me- say one day I do barbell curls 4 sets, 10,8,8,6, and lets say they weights I used for each set were 65,75,85,95lbs and on the last set I could just barely get up six reps. Now the next week (assuming whatever as youve used has kicked in) 65lbs wont feel any lighter, nor will 75,85,or 95lbs, but on my last set I would try using 105 and would get just as many reps as last week at 95, so now this week im obviously stronger but the regular weight still feel just as heavy, this may be why your not getting stronger. When I first did as I thought I would know when I got stronger when the normal weights would feel lighter, thats not how it works. So my advise to you is start using heavier weights even if you think its a little to much, you might be suprised. Of course be carefull when using weight amounts youve never done especially on exercises like bench, ect., but im sure you know that. Hopefully this is a little help in working out the bugs.

[m16a2]

Originally posted by jamotech
You said the strength hasent increased much, are you pushing yourself hard enough? By that I mean when I've done as the strenght dosent just come out and surprise me, I need to push myself to do weight that I dont really think I can do. Its like this for me- say one day I do barbell curls 4 sets, 10,8,8,6, and lets say they weights I used for each set were 65,75,85,95lbs and on the last set I could just barely get up six reps. Now the next week (assuming whatever as youve used has kicked in) 65lbs wont feel any lighter, nor will 75,85,or 95lbs, but on my last set I would try using 105 and would get just as many reps as last week at 95, so now this week im obviously stronger but the regular weight still feel just as heavy, this may be why your not getting stronger. When I first did as I thought I would know when I got stronger when the normal weights would feel lighter, thats not how it works. So my advise to you is start using heavier weights even if you think its a little to much, you might be suprised. Of course be carefull when using weight amounts youve never done especially on exercises like bench, ect., but im sure you know that. Hopefully this is a little help in working out the bugs.

Good post, I found this useful!

[B-BOY]

first thing i would do bro is write down everything i ate for at least three days and come back and post it and lets check it out.. when im ON i tend to bump up my meals to almost 8 or 9 a day its hard but i do it, weight gainers (lowest sugar possible) tend to help accomplish this for me... so in all bro first thing i would check is my diet and then my gear..

[thundercat900]

What kind of gear are you using buddy???? Sounds like crap to me... I didnt eat like I should and I gained almost 30lbs in a 10 week deca/test cycle. 400 and 400/wk.

[m16a2]

Originally posted by thundercat900
What kind of gear are you using buddy???? Sounds like crap to me... I didnt eat like I should and I gained almost 30lbs in a 10 week deca/test cycle. 400 and 400/wk.

how much did you keep?

[Sicilian30]

Terinox, with those kinds of MG, you should've had some really big gains. EQ, is a bit low, but still should've given you some really good gains. What kind of gear, (brand name). Sounds like to me, that your gear may have been underdosed. I did some brovel t 200 last cycle, and I swore the first bottle was junk, I didn't start feeling the test kick in until my second bottle. Also my first bottle was not quite 10ml. But Brovel t 200 is like that I understand, underdosed...
One more thing, I just realized that you are only on your 7th week. I didn't see my EQ start kicking in until about week 8-10. Remember EQ will stay in your system for 3 weeks post cycle, I get most of my good solid gains, post cycle, believe it or not. Try upping your calories, protein and carbs. Good luck my friend.

[rangerdudeleads]

I agree with sicilian, I didnt see my eq really kick in till the 8th week i think so you might want to extend your cycle to at least 12 weeks to get the most out of it since eq takes a while to kick in.

[Jack87]

Originally posted by rangerdudeleads
I agree with sicilian, I didnt see my eq really kick in till the 8th week

I've personally never used EQ, but was considering trying it on my next cycle, but after reading time and time again about how long it takes to kick in Screw EQ....
There's no way I'm gonna stick myself for 8 weeks before I start feeling something kick in.... At least for me Deca kicks in after 3 weeks and I felt great for the rest of the cycle....

[Terinox]

No no, actually THIS cycle doesn't have the EQ in it. I should have posted this thread better, but I guess it was a bit confusing. Currenly i'm ONLY doing 200mg of Enanthate every 4 days. I did Dianabol for 3 weeks or so near the beginning. I still have Winny which I will do from weeks 9-12. (the cycle written out in detail there was what i'm planning to do next cycle, fall of 2003)

In terms of my diet now, yes, it may lack at some times, but like some people have said before and some are even saying now, even with a "fair" or "decent" diet, people gain at least 20 pounds.

I eat toast or eggs for breakfast. Then it's usually my workout (around 11/12). I have tuna in my locker at university, so right after my workout, I eat a can of tuna (then I usually have a class, so I gotta go to class). Then I get home, I get a protein shake (drink these usually every 2-3 hours when I get home, starting at 3pm "ish" until I go to sleep around 12 "ish" so that's about 3-4 protein shakes. I also eat one plate chicken breast (about 3 pieces, maybe 4-5 ounces each). I also eat one "unknown" meal depending on what it is my mom has made for dinner (but it always includes some kind of meat, usually ground beef). I also get in another can of tuna before bed (sometimes with noodles).

Now I actually don't calculate my calories exaclty, but from what I eat it's gotta be a lot 3000+ i'm guessing. Protein is a lot too like I said, on a "good" day, i get about 120 from the shakes, 60 from the tuna, 30 from the chicken, 20-30 from food mom makes, that's average of 200-250.

I try all the time to make diet better but it is hard, with school and studying, etc. You ALL know what I mean.

I like the advice about the strength though, and I know what you mean. Doing sets on the bench at 205 FEELS as heavy as it did when I was doing 185, even thought I could still do about 8-10 reps. I will give it a shot and increase weight bit more, maybe try 225 first set and see how it works out.

I will let u know. In terms of weight, like I said, very little increase, maybe 7-8 pounds (my weight keeps fluctuating) but when I look in the mirror it looks good. I seem to be a little bigger (very little, but still slightly noticable) as well as my shoulders, i've been told they are getting bigger (my by workout partner).

In terms of the juice, it's 100% legit, it's PVL and it's great stuff.

Also, I do have to take into consideration that like you said, I am kinda young, 20 years old, and 200mg every 4 days is not really TOO much juice. Things aren't going too good, but i'm not really complaining. If after I finish this cycle, I am able to keep all my gains and all my strength, then hell i'll be damn happy. If I can stay at doing sets at 205/225, that would be quite satisfying for me. Also, it's a good experience as a first cycle.

Thnx for all the replies, I really do appreciate it

[ibiza69]

i would suggest adding 100grams of carbs imediately(carb powder about 15 bucks cabadian for a tub) after your work out to restore depleted glycogen that was used up in your training. i would also add at least 40-50 grams of protein per day, hell i get 240 grams just from shakes alone.
how much sleep are you getting a night?

[sp33dg33k]

dollars to doughnuts your not eating enough.

that said i bet you think you are eating enough as did i in the past... however if your bulking bro and possibly an ecto like myself the only way your gonna get the gear to really work for you is to PIG THE FUCK OUT dont worry bout a little fat gain you can diet that down later OR you can continue with the 10lbs gains per cycle which by the sounds of it your not happy with

some people might not agree with this advice but its working for me.

[m16a2]

Originally posted by sp33dg33k
dollars to doughnuts your not eating enough.

Did you read how much he's eating? I think its alot personally.

I eat toast or eggs for breakfast. Then it's usually my workout (around 11/12). I have tuna in my locker at university, so right after my workout, I eat a can of tuna (then I usually have a class, so I gotta go to class). Then I get home, I get a protein shake (drink these usually every 2-3 hours when I get home, starting at 3pm "ish" until I go to sleep around 12 "ish" so that's about 3-4 protein shakes. I also eat one plate chicken breast (about 3 pieces, maybe 4-5 ounces each). I also eat one "unknown" meal depending on what it is my mom has made for dinner (but it always includes some kind of meat, usually ground beef). I also get in another can of tuna before bed (sometimes with noodles).

breakfast - 500 calories at least
tuna - 180 calories maybe, we'll say 200
3-4 protein shakes - about 800 calories more or less (if mixed /w milk it'll add protein and some calories to the count)
Plate of chicken - depending on how its prepared, about 600 calories avg (roast w/o oil might be 550, fried would go up to 1200 easy)
his mom's meal (ground beef, probably some kind of bread) - guess -- 700 calories
Last meal, can of tuna /w noodles - 500 (noodles = starch)

total calories included: 3300

misc calories guess: 500 (this includes all that crap you didn't count on including: ketchup, dressing, chips, bread with the ground beef, the peas in the ground beef, cheese or crackers with any of the meals, orange/apple juice)

My guess is at least 3800 calories which might seem low, but a great deal of it is from protein. Also the food is constantly being fed to his body which is definitely good. Depending on a persons size they will need diff amounts of calories too. If he's benching 205/225 on his high working set, then he probably doesn't weigh as much as some bros on here, and probably doesn't need as much as some others. >> This is just my opinion, I'm not an expert in nutrition, but I do know how hard it is to have a bulking diet while a fulltime student. I think your doin' a good job bro. Hope your results pick up!

[Full Intensity]

Well myself i'm an ecto, so gaining while on a cycle is very very hard. And the part that is discouraging is that when i eat soo much i am bloated 24/7 so i think fuck i'm getting fat. So then i don't eat as much. Just realize that your body needs that food bad and that bloat will go away very quickly, especially when the cycle is done. Just eat till you feel like you are going to puke 5 times a day. That should do the trick

[Terinox]

Originally posted by Big_Boy
-What was your BF% before you started and what is it now?
- 10 pounds is not that bad considering the mild dosage you are taking especially if you lost some fat (which I suspect)

BB

Unfortuenly I didn't get my body fat calculated (couldn't find the place or the time, although I should have tried harder). I just used the mirror, and the scale

Started cycle at about 190-192 and now i'm around 200 "ish" so i'm not too sure.

[Terinox]

Originally posted by ibiza69
i would suggest adding 100grams of carbs imediately(carb powder about 15 bucks cabadian for a tub) after your work out to restore depleted glycogen that was used up in your training. i would also add at least 40-50 grams of protein per day, hell i get 240 grams just from shakes alone.
how much sleep are you getting a night?

Thnx for the advice, some carbs right after the workout, might be a good idea.

In terms of protein, I do think it is enuff (usually), some say too much protein doesn't make a difference (that it's over played) others say protein protein protein, LOL, so I don't know, 200-250 seems high for me

[Terinox]

Originally posted by rampage76


Did you read how much he's eating? I think its alot personally.




breakfast - 500 calories at least
tuna - 180 calories maybe, we'll say 200
3-4 protein shakes - about 800 calories more or less (if mixed /w milk it'll add protein and some calories to the count)
Plate of chicken - depending on how its prepared, about 600 calories avg (roast w/o oil might be 550, fried would go up to 1200 easy)
his mom's meal (ground beef, probably some kind of bread) - guess -- 700 calories
Last meal, can of tuna /w noodles - 500 (noodles = starch)

total calories included: 3300

misc calories guess: 500 (this includes all that crap you didn't count on including: ketchup, dressing, chips, bread with the ground beef, the peas in the ground beef, cheese or crackers with any of the meals, orange/apple juice)

My guess is at least 3800 calories which might seem low, but a great deal of it is from protein. Also the food is constantly being fed to his body which is definitely good. Depending on a persons size they will need diff amounts of calories too. If he's benching 205/225 on his high working set, then he probably doesn't weigh as much as some bros on here, and probably doesn't need as much as some others. >> This is just my opinion, I'm not an expert in nutrition, but I do know how hard it is to have a bulking diet while a fulltime student. I think your doin' a good job bro. Hope your results pick up!

Thnx for the feedback bro, that is a good estimate, sounds about right. There are a lot of "misc" calories like you suggest, maybe even close to 1000 (i eat a lot of smaller things here and there that I don't even count, fruits, veggies, other things that lie around, etc...)

Glad to know that you understand how hard it is, with school and studying, etc... Next cycle will probably be a lot better, also, i'm not done this one yet, so maybe another 5 pounds may appear, LOL, who knows. 10-15 pounds, not too bad I guess.

[MIKE_XXL]

Some carbs after the workout might not be a good idea, IT IS A GREAT IDEA, you are not eating enought carbs, i would bump protein to 300-350 (at 200lbs i get close to 400gm per day of protein when ON)...what you are eating is not a lot of food, when bulking i have that done by 3:00pm, your meals are not balanced. where is the EFA (essential fatty acids) like flaxseed oil, olive oil etc, i eould add atleast 2 tablespoons...how much are you sleeping, should be at least 8-9 hours a day, do you drink?

My first cycle ever i too 200mg of Test Enenth a week, and i gained 20lbs on it, and i am a hard gainer, and my diet sucked as well. If you are using Tornel or Brovel brans count your dose as 130mg per ml, because that's about all that is in there.

Good Luck...XXL

[silverfox]

More food, and make sure your training is in order as well, really need to figure out a way to eat every 2H your are awake.

[durbin22]

I would say eat more. Bump up your calories to 4000 and see what happens. Try to eat more solid foods like steak, chicken and fish. If you have to get a weight gainer like Nlarge 2 and drink that post workout. You should be able to gain at least 8-10lbs from the Dbol alone.

[solid-d]

Something simular happened to me this past summer, I blame it on my mind in the gym...I was not pushing myself hard enough while 'on' and didnt get the gains... The winny will help alot...It wasnt till after my cycle I lost weight, but worked out harder..Now Im the same weight before I started, but alot stronger, and more ripped, and less fat.. I solid now...And used no winny..

[bigwillystyle]

are you sure your gear is good? i think ive read 1 of your posts in the scammers list asking about your source. double check your gear with some of the experts on this board. if your gear checks out then try uping your cals another 3k, eat eight times per day. food always seem to add the weight on for me (good and bad weight) remember lift as heavy as u can

good luck bro

[Terinox]

Thnx for the more feedback, helps a lot and is appreciated, will do as you say

[silverfox]

Terinox I am using the same brands as you, and have gone from 223-224- 240 in 3 weeks, eating my face off, still no moon face either. So start eating I know your gear is good!

[FCECC2]

right now, i got some doubt about the concentration of this brand...

[Nibbe]

man, you are overtraining, drop down to 3 even 2 times a week! keep eating what you eat now and get more rest!!! 5 times a week is far to much to train even on gear.

[husun]

I think u over estimated ur calories. tuna for one has barely any calories. I know myself once i got to school i started eating HUGE meals, i mean like piling food on several plates and forcing it down at every lunch and dinner and it was crazy how quick i gained weight. It doesn't sound like ur force feeding yourself at all just keeping a normal clean diet. like someone else said start pigging out.

[Terinox]

All I know is this, i'm going into my third week of Sustanon at 700mg a week, and so far nothing. I'm eating tons of food, training hard and sleeping good. I'm gonna wait another 2 weeks and see if things pick up. I doubt that PVL is fake. Not to mention MODS and VETS on THIS board back this stuff up 110%.

Can't someone get this stuff tested? To see what the concentration is?

[bigsd67]

fellas just my .02...my last cycle i ate between 3300 and 3800 cals a day, kept the carbs at around 400 protein at 300-400, i gained 25lbs from Test/Tren. No crazy doses or anything..also only my 3rd cycle...maybe that's why.

[Terinox]

My point is EVEN WITH a shitty diet, you should still see gains. And we are all doing good with the diet...so, I dunno.

[Terinox]

Originally posted by specforever
Assuming your gear is legit,

Like everyone else I would say eat more.

However, equally if not more important, work out less!! You are an ectomorph and working out 5x a week ?!

Most ectomorphs/hardgainers (usually) should work out less, even on juice, they need more time to recuperate. Try 3x a week and focus on heavy compound lifts, (squats, deadlifts, bench, dips) 5 sets max each exercise per workout.

Sometimes less is more, particulatly for ectos. This is something naturally big guys don't seem to understand. (not that they have to anyway)

It is possible to overtarin even on gear, and quite probable in your case especially. Read "Beyond Brawn" by Stuart McRobert.

Hope this helps.

I'm NOT a hard gainer. I weigh 205 lbs!!! My training is great. I feel good and pumped all 5 days that I workout in the week. My body seems to be able to handle it okay. If ANYTHING, my workouts HAVE TO BE better, and my gains MUCH MORE then it was BEFORE i was on juice right? This is just VERY BASIC COMMON SENSE!

[Mr. clean]

after comparing your weight to the weight you were lifting i would have to wonder if maybe you werent ready for a cycle yet. how long have you been training. just wondering

[Polska]

Terinox, my opinion is that your training is spot on. 5 days a week @ 1-1.5hrs should NOT induce over-training while on. I'd look either to your gear (underdosed) or your diet (also 'underdosed').

You weigh 205 lbs and consume merely 200g of protein daily while ON??
I recall reading some of your posts in the Diet forum...
Up the complex carbs (waay up), cut down on simple carbs, and at the same time up the protein (double it, right now your protein synthesis should be sky high) and include the EFA.

Don't worry about upping the calories, even if you are trying to avoid fat accumulation. Make sure to lower the amount of calories steadily as you come off though, as fat amasses at a higher rate then.

[Terinox]

Okay no no, you see, this thread is very old. That was my FIRST cycle. I'm running Dianabol and Sustanon right now. Sustanon @ 700mg a week. I get 300+ grams of protein, and eat every 2 hours or so, everything in site!

I train damn hard. Both me and my friend aren't feeling any different. That's why we are confused to what's going on. My strength in these three weeks has stayed the same (even with the Sustanon and Dianabol). I REALLY don't like the fact that lately a LOT of people are saying they are not getting much results from PVL.

[FCECC2]

same for me