honestly i have seen pics of guys in the members pics who are juicing and doing several cycles with poor progress,even the ones who claim they gained 20 and more pounds are having much of it fat gains and i see people commenting good progress,i mean wtf ??i dont wanna mention names but from what i have seen its weird,they dont even have a good base,which i mean a good lean mature muscular development,i was thinking of juicing soon myself but i will tweak and improve mu diet and see what i can achieve with it and seriously i do believe that i have a good base now but i would be much happier if i reach my goals naturally,anyone noticed that..