What gears are toxic to blend.

[Bullyson]

Just wondering if there is any AAS that is toxic to stack? My next cycle Im planning on using some Dbols to kick with my sust and tren and planning on trying to get extra lean with winny at the end. Will this be ok or should I hold off on the winny? Tren should get me lean enough but one bro said winny and tren to wrap up a cycle would make me as hard as a board. Another buddy of mine said it could be bad juju...

[NATE0406]

the only thing you would have to worry about is liver values. imo i would only run one oral per cycle. but thats just me. seeing that you are wanting to cut then why not just leave out the dbol. but to answer your question you should be fine running both just take the proper precautions.

[Bullyson]

Im wanting to cut down at the end of the 16 weeks. Prob at week 10. My last cycle was a long one. (20 wks) I was lean, vascular and hard when I finished and I didnt lose much size at all. Thats what Im going for again but I want more size this time. (Hense the Dbols) I understand Dbols give you quite a bit of water weight and I was hoping the tren and the winny could cut most of that up and help me retain a higher % of LMM. I have plenty of milk thistle. Anything else you could suggest for better liver protection?

[crispybacon]

I think someone with a bit of knowledge should start a "Mix or not to Mix" thread cause there is alot of q's going round about mixing stuff.

[WARMachine]

Post previous cycle and the current one you want to run w/ dosages

[jstraw428]

I think it is pretty safe to mix all steroids......the only thing you would really have to worry about would be the toxicity of everything you are taking....

You are planning on runnning a 16 wk cycle with a toxic dht at the beginning, running tren throughout your cycle, and then adding another dht at the end.....Just be careful, and very aware of how your lower back feels.......Drink lots of water, and maybe some milkthistle.....

[crispybacon]

What does lower back pain indicate, an organ about to pack in?

[Bullyson]

Post previous cycle and the current one you want to run w/ dosages

Prev was Sust250@ 500mgs p/w weeks 1-5
Lost connect on sust and went to TestE 500mgs p/w weeks 5-10
Supertest250 500 mgs p/w & trenA 75-100mgs started eod and eventually went to 75 mgs ed. weeks 11-20

Next will be Dbols 35mgs ed and Sust250 @ 750mgs p/w weeks 1-6
Maintain the Sust @ 750mgs p/w and add TrenA @ 75-100mgs ed (Depending on how I react this time) weeks 7-16. Thought about trying to cut it all up with winny at the end but was advised against it.

Have HCG, Novla and clomid on order for pct.

[Phate]

What does lower back pain indicate, an organ about to pack in?

thats way too general, thats like saying my head hurts, does that mean i have a brain tumor, well i could be, but it could be 100 other things

[Bullyson]

What does lower back pain indicate, an organ about to pack in?

Kidneys bro.

[jstraw428]

thats way too general, thats like saying my head hurts, does that mean i have a brain tumor, well i could be, but it could be 100 other things

It is definitely too general, but after you have ben running gear for a while, and you know how you react to certain substances or the combination of substances.....this can be a good indication that something is not right, and you might want to reevaluate your dosages....

Everyody is diferent though, this is just a rule of thumb that i go by....

[jgonzalez]

looks good to me...

[WARMachine]

So you wanna run

wks 1-6 Dbol 35MG ED
wks 1-16 Sust @ 750MG P/W
wks 7-16 Tren @ 75MG ED

You said earlier your overall goal was to put on more size, BUT to cut up and gain LMM.
This cycle probably wouldnt be the best idea for that particular goal. The Dbol will definatly not help even if you do run winny at the end. You need to PICK ONE! either make it a bulk with Dbol, or a cutting with Winny, not both.

BTW, post youre stats and #of previous cycles.

Not knowing them, id say its doable, but somethin like

1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED (If youre hell bent on using 750 P/W OF test, use 100ED)
1-4 Dbol 25mgs 2XD

would likely be a better cycle. . . Or if you want to cut, switch the dbol for winny, but use winny wks 8-12... Pick one, youll get better results, and not do maximum damage to your liver, kidneys, etc...

Again, this is gonna put some serious size and strength gains on you, and you could always run a serious cutting cycle if you weren't cut enough after you finished this.

have Letro during PCT, youre gonna need it, and Proviron would be a better choice if you can obtain it instead of clomid.
You might wanna also add T3 @ 25mcgs/day.

[crispybacon]

thats way too general, thats like saying my head hurts, does that mean i have a brain tumor, well i could be, but it could be 100 other things

Well I dont know about you but I dont have that many organs in that location affected by toxicity!?

[Bullyson]

32
6'0
205
Around 9-10%bf
Bench 355lbs
LPress 650lbs

Trained hard for a while, wasnt happy with my gains so I came to the dark side and now I will never look back.
This will be #2.

ETA: Im already cut up enough. I just dont want the water weight that I saw my 1st go round before the tren. (fat face, little definition ect..)

[WARMachine]

^^^ wow so for youre first cycle you did 20 WEEKS! AND Tren in the first cycle...

yeah id say you jumped to the dark side.

Dude take some advice, run this:
1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED (If youre hell bent on using 750 P/W OF test, use 100ED)
1-4 Dbol 25mgs 2XD

Or if youre not gonna listen, at LEAST get the Letro during PCT, and try to get Proviron instead of clomid. You might wanna also add T3 @ 25mcgs/day

[DS21]

^^^ wow so for youre first cycle you did 20 WEEKS! AND Tren in the first cycle...

yeah id say you jumped to the dark side.

Dude take some advice, run this:
1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED (If youre hell bent on using 750 P/W OF test, use 100ED)
1-4 Dbol 25mgs 2XD

Or if youre not gonna listen, at LEAST get the Letro during PCT, and try to get Proviron instead of clomid. You might wanna also add T3 @ 25mcgs/day

That is a long cycle. If it was me I would stop tren a week or two before comeing off test p.

[DS21]

I ment the 20 weeks not the 12 wk one you laid out.

[Bullyson]

Let me add that I came off of my 1st cycle cold turkey. The gf threw away my goodie box with everything in it. I saw no crash or sides hardly at all. I have a small amount of acne on my shoulders and a slight decrease in my sex drive but thats it. Am I lucky or just fortunate that it was my 1st cycle?

[WARMachine]

Alright just do

1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED

If youre already cut up, and youre 9%BF and 205lbs and you can put up 355 on the bench, this would be a good cycle for some strength and size gains...

This will work for you assuming your training and diet are above par!

[jstraw428]

I would say you were definitly lucky...too experience no crashing without PCT......i would not suggest doing it again.......But some of the older bbs, ay they dont do any PCT, and have never had problems......I just figure, i dont want to find out....I always do a good PCT>...

[Bullyson]

^^^ wow so for youre first cycle you did 20 WEEKS! AND Tren in the first cycle...

yeah id say you jumped to the dark side.

Dude take some advice, run this:
1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED (If youre hell bent on using 750 P/W OF test, use 100ED)
1-4 Dbol 25mgs 2XD

Or if youre not gonna listen, at LEAST get the Letro during PCT, and try to get Proviron instead of clomid. You might wanna also add T3 @ 25mcgs/day

That sounds good but I can get the sust for 1/2 the price of the prop and I will need alot more of the prop to dose correctly. Money is tight right now. My ugl guy uses Tren and prop and swears by it but he doesnt look as good as I did after my last cycle. war4BTT, would this cycle bulk and lean out or just cut me up?

[Bullyson]

I would say you were definitly lucky...too experience no crashing without PCT......i would not suggest doing it again.......But some of the older bbs, ay they dont do any PCT, and have never had problems......I just figure, i dont want to find out....I always do a good PCT>...

Is is possible that a person could just not be prone to the sides or is it just a matter of time?

[one8nine]

Just wondering if there is any AAS that is toxic to stack? My next cycle Im planning on using some Dbols to kick with my sust and tren and planning on trying to get extra lean with winny at the end. Will this be ok or should I hold off on the winny? Tren should get me lean enough but one bro said winny and tren to wrap up a cycle would make me as hard as a board. Another buddy of mine said it could be bad juju...

post up your actual cycle times/dosages
and only use one oral in a cycle imo
you can finish with injectable winny though

[one8nine]

I think someone with a bit of knowledge should start a "Mix or not to Mix" thread cause there is alot of q's going round about mixing stuff.

its pretty basic
only 1 oral, 6-8 weeks max
no nolva on cycle
nolva reduces arimidex

[one8nine]

I think it is pretty safe to mix all steroids......the only thing you would really have to worry about would be the toxicity of everything you are taking....

You are planning on runnning a 16 wk cycle with a toxic dht at the beginning, running tren throughout your cycle, and then adding another dht at the end.....Just be careful, and very aware of how your lower back feels.......Drink lots of water, and maybe some milkthistle.....

dbol is test/dhea based not dht...
its toxic cause its 17aa

winny is dht, but its toxic because its 17aa

[Bullyson]

post up your actual cycle times/dosages
and only use one oral in a cycle imo
you can finish with injectable winny though

Prev was Sust250@ 500mgs p/w weeks 1-5
Lost connect on sust and went to TestE 500mgs p/w weeks 5-10
Supertest250 500 mgs p/w & trenA 75-100mgs started eod and eventually went to 75 mgs ed. weeks 11-20


I forgot about converting winny tabs. My ugl guy said he could do that too. He's a chemistry teacher at a local HS. LOL!! Major in Chemistry, minor in Physics. Good dude to have as a resource.

[one8nine]

Prev was Sust250@ 500mgs p/w weeks 1-5
Lost connect on sust and went to TestE 500mgs p/w weeks 5-10
Supertest250 500 mgs p/w & trenA 75-100mgs started eod and eventually went to 75 mgs ed. weeks 11-20

Next will be Dbols 35mgs ed and Sust250 @ 750mgs p/w weeks 1-6
Maintain the Sust @ 750mgs p/w and add TrenA @ 75-100mgs ed (Depending on how I react this time) weeks 7-16. Thought about trying to cut it all up with winny at the end but was advised against it.

Have HCG, Novla and clomid on order for pct.

heavy cycle but if you inject the winny ed and shoot the sust eod its okay

you need an ai like proviron or aromasin
also dont run nolva or clomid past 25mg

[WARMachine]

That sounds good but I can get the sust for 1/2 the price of the prop and I will need alot more of the prop to dose correctly. Money is tight right now. My ugl guy uses Tren and prop and swears by it but he doesnt look as good as I did after my last cycle. war4BTT, would this cycle bulk and lean out or just cut me up?

Hey if moneys tight it is what it is! I would swear by Prop too! And youre guy is not you, hard to tell if he doesnt look as good because of diet, training, cycle, gentics, etc...

1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED
1-4 Dbol 25mgs 2XD

This one will probably put some water retention in the beginningl... I wouldnt expect too much water retention overall though. The nice thing about runnin Tren and Prop is the short ester, so really there is no need to run the Dbol as a kickstart anway.

1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED
8-12 Winny 25mgs 2XD

Is probably better for what you want.
And 189 is right, you can inject winny instead of oral if you want, and run the dbol in the beginning, again, im not a fan of running Dbol and winny same cycle. Did it once, wont do it again.

Pick one and stick to it, youll get better results for what you want by doing the above.

[one8nine]

Prev was Sust250@ 500mgs p/w weeks 1-5
Lost connect on sust and went to TestE 500mgs p/w weeks 5-10
Supertest250 500 mgs p/w & trenA 75-100mgs started eod and eventually went to 75 mgs ed. weeks 11-20


I forgot about converting winny tabs. My ugl guy said he could do that too. He's a chemistry teacher at a local HS. LOL!! Major in Chemistry, minor in Physics. Good dude to have as a resource.

converting winny pills to injections??? better to just get powder i wouldnt trust the fillers thats going to hurt

[one8nine]

have Letro during PCT, youre gonna need it, and Proviron would be a better choice if you can obtain it instead of clomid.
You might wanna also add T3 @ 25mcgs/day.

letro is a terrible pct choice due to rebound

[jstraw428]

converting winny pills to injections??? better to just get powder i wouldnt trust the fillers thats going to hurt

agreed, it would just be easier to get it in powder form, and convert it yourself......

[one8nine]

agreed, it would just be easier to get it in powder form, and convert it yourself......

or get masteron prop
or just get the injections

[Bullyson]

agreed, it would just be easier to get it in powder form, and convert it yourself......

Not that simple for me jstraw428. My resources are limited. I can only get what I can get you know? I wish it was as easy as 123. I'd be a big bastard already. Thanks for all the help fellas. I'll keep you up to date on the progress. DJ.

[jstraw428]

if all you can get is winny tabs, then just go with them.....i would run them at a slightly hight dose than i would the injectable.....but i definitley wouldnt try to convert the tabs to a liquid.....too many unknowns......

[Bullyson]

if all you can get is winny tabs, then just go with them.....i would run them at a slightly hight dose than i would the injectable.....but i definitley wouldnt try to convert the tabs to a liquid.....too many unknowns......

What dose would you recommend? Daily, weekly??

[scribbs12]

^^^ wow so for youre first cycle you did 20 WEEKS! AND Tren in the first cycle...

yeah id say you jumped to the dark side.

Dude take some advice, run this:
1-12 Tren A 75MG ED
1-12 Test Prop 75MG ED (If youre hell bent on using 750 P/W OF test, use 100ED)
1-4 Dbol 25mgs 2XD

Or if youre not gonna listen, at LEAST get the Letro during PCT, and try to get Proviron instead of clomid. You might wanna also add T3 @ 25mcgs/day

isnt that a waste?.. im pretty sure your body should be naturally producing that much already.... at least 50mcgs+ imo

[scribbs12]

What dose would you recommend? Daily, weekly??

last 4-6 weeks at 50mg at least for winny..

[jstraw428]

if i were taking winny tabs, i would run them at least 100mg ed......i personally would probably run around 125mg ed........

[one8nine]

isnt that a waste?.. im pretty sure your body should be naturally producing that much already.... at least 50mcgs+ imo

tren loweres t3 its to make up for that drop