Help major dr frustrations

[SWOLLL]

Well my doc just strted me on test cyp

He started me on the testim then tried androgel for a couple of months to no avail.

Yesterday he prescribed me test cyp and I will say I was very excited until he told me how he wants me to take it.

at 200mg a week for 4 weeks

then 200mg a every other week for 4 weeks

then 200mg a month and keep it at this dose

When I asked for an anti E he told me I wouldn't need any that those were only neccessary with anabolic steroids. What?

I really like the doc he is one of the coolest docs I have ever had and I am glad he was able to figure out my problem (even though I already knew), no sex drive, lethargic, just feeling like crap.

But what do I do now? I don't want to have to take the prescribed dose and go on this roller coaster ride while he reads my bloodwork and find out what I already know.

I told him yesterday I needed an estrogen blocker and that 200mg even every two weeks isn't going to do what I want it too.

I would really like a little higher dose than 200 every week.

I have done several cycles (6 & 1/2 cycles) in the past I was actually shot in the middle of my last cycle a couple of years ago and didn't get any pct in the hospital but atleast I lived

Tried hcg about four months ago but still have just felt like crap and I don't have my bloodwork on hand but even my dr said all my test levels were rock bottom low.

Does anyone know another Houston Dr I can get what I need from? I just need my sex drive back and a boost to get moving and help me get back on track in the gym.

Thanks for any advice or help

I'm 30 yo 6'6" 270 19%bf 5-6 cycles serious weight lifting for 11 years shot twice about two years ago in stomach

[TranscriptionFactor]

wow you're a huge dude.

I would first be up front with him that you have experience with AAS, and that you are used to higher doses.
Second, tell him you have done a good deal of research, bring in some stuff to back it up maybe, but don't hand that out right away and gently ask the concerns you have, such as
"From my experience of use, that dose may be too low for me." and "With that dosing schedule I am concerned I am only going to shutting down my natural Test."

And if he refuses to work with you, you can find another doc or at least get your own anti-E through a place like the one that sponsors this board on the top right of the screen.

Is he and Endocrinologist or a Primary care doc? I would expect the 1st to know more, but then again even they often don't understand AAS use.

[zaggahamma]

damn dude two bullets still didnt bring your big arse down...just grab the doc by the fvckin throat and tell him what to write on the paper

[bbuilder]

Perfect example of how ignorant doctors are towards AAS.

Get a different doctor.

[warchild]

150-200mgs aweek...no more and no less

[SWOLLL]

Yeah he is my primary care doc. I have told him my concerns he seems to think he knows more than I do.

I am pretty sure I am going to have to be his guinea pig and let him learn on me, which really sucks.

jpkman believe me I have thought about doing that but flaws aside I really do like the guy. Yeah those two little bullets brought me down for about a year.

[FallenWyvern]

Go to an anti aging doctor where all they do is help people like you get legal steroids.

[SWOLLL]

Go to an anti aging doctor where all they do is help people like you get legal steroids.

How do I find one of those that is not going to give me more headaches?

i was reading past posts about guys spending $1700 and not even getting any scripts from the anti aging docs.

I would like to find one around here that would just take my money or preferably insurance and give me what I want

Anybody know one in Houston? Shoot me a pm if you do.

[Dr_BruceBanner]

SWOLLL, Damn, if you don't mind saying, how on earth did you end up getting shot and was justice done on the persone who shot you? Glad you're still living and breathing. Also, you are one very big dude too.

I'd just take the first months shots every week and then after that just try and talk him into keeping you at this dose and frequency.

[zaggahamma]

SWOLLL, Damn, if you don't mind saying, how on earth did you end up getting shot and was justice done on the persone who shot you? Glad you're still living and breathing. Also, you are one very big dude too.

I'd just take the first months shots every week and then after that just try and talk him into keeping you at this dose and frequency.

yeh bro...that had to be scary as fvck....and it prolly happened in an instant...life is delicate no matter how big we are...always someone bigger or carrying a p-shooter
yep always good to work with the doc if you can but keep in your head that he's working for you if he doesnt have your best interest

[SWOLLL]

SWOLLL, Damn, if you don't mind saying, how on earth did you end up getting shot and was justice done on the persone who shot you?

Well I used to own and run a business here in Houston.

One Fri evening when I got in my truck this guy jumped in my passenger seat and I believe he said "give me your deposit or die!" something like that.

He jammed his pistol in my ribs. Well I didn't want him to find out my wife was still in the shop counting my deposit with our newborn son, he was actually 6 months and this was the first day my wife had been back at the shop helping me.

I was terrified that he was going to kill me and then I wouldn't be able to protect my family, now don't get me wrong I didn't want to die but I was just thinking about my family at that time and it was the most afraid I have ever been.

So I grabbed the gun and twisted this guy and his arm, keep in mind I was mid cycle and scared out of my mind, well I wasn't fastedr than the speeding bullets unfortunantely. I got shot twice in the stomach it tore my insides all to shreds.

But I somehow took the gun away from him and dispensed his justice in the front seat of my truck. Now it scares the crap out of me jus to think about it and how lucky my family and myself were that day.

I figured the guy had been checking me out since normally I would have been on my way to drop my deposit about that time and the only reason my family, and this is what really scares me, wasn't getting in the truck with me is because my son fell asleep so I was going to grab something for us to eat because he hadn't had a nap.

The police told me after they did the autopsy that his arm was ripped out of socket. Adrenaline I guess.

[zaggahamma]

Well I used to own and run a business here in Houston.

One Fri evening when I got in my truck this guy jumped in my passenger seat and I believe he said "give me your deposit or die!" something like that.

He jammed his pistol in my ribs. Well I didn't want him to find out my wife was still in the shop counting my deposit with our newborn son, he was actually 6 months and this was the first day my wife had been back at the shop helping me.

I was terrified that he was going to kill me and then I wouldn't be able to protect my family, now don't get me wrong I didn't want to die but I was just thinking about my family at that time and it was the most afraid I have ever been.

So I grabbed the gun and twisted this guy and his arm, keep in mind I was mid cycle and scared out of my mind, well I wasn't fastedr than the speeding bullets unfortunantely. I got shot twice in the stomach it tore my insides all to shreds.

But I somehow took the gun away from him and dispensed his justice in the front seat of my truck. Now it scares the crap out of me jus to think about it and how lucky my family and myself were that day.

I figured the guy had been checking me out since normally I would have been on my way to drop my deposit about that time and the only reason my family, and this is what really scares me, wasn't getting in the truck with me is because my son fell asleep so I was going to grab something for us to eat because he hadn't had a nap.

The police told me after they did the autopsy that his arm was ripped out of socket. Adrenaline I guess.

Glad the good guy gets to tell the story swoll nuff said

[natureboy]

That's some story! I'm glad to hear the good guy came out on top!
Is the doc gonna check your t level at the end of the first month, and did you ask what range he wanted to get you in?
I'm sure if he checks the t level he will make the right adjustment for you!
I'm thinking 200mg ew is about maxed out, you probably won't get more than that.

Do you have any complications from the wounds?

Good luck with the doc!

[danno39]

I would agree with the doc not going up much past 200mg a week but if you get on HGC as well and take 250iu on day 4,5 or 5,6 that will get you up another 200 points or so and you will not have peanuts for testicles...

[TRA]

Not likely you'll find a doc who will write you for more than 200 mg/wk. Primary care docs don't know a lot about test replacement, just a bit about the Androgel. You do need an anti-aging doc most likely, or one that is more knowledgeable about AAS, etc., and comfortable writing the **.

Being a doc myself, I read this thread with a little bit of amusement, as people tend to get pissed when they come in and want something and don't get it.

A lot of times docs have the arrogant attitude, it's built in from med school, and some are just egotistical pricks, but there are some good ones out there as well.

In defense of the latter, the reason they don't want to write for the stuff is twofold. First, without the knowledge, they are afraid of harming you, and it's outside their comfort level. The wouldn't write scripts for other drugs they don't know about either. Second, we're held responsible for everything we do. Test is a scheduled drug, and the scripts are tracked in over 90% of the pharmacies. If anything happens that triggers the medical board to look at the history, as a doc you're accountable for all the controlled substance scripts and can get into deep shit and even lose a license for writing for the stuff outside the FDA indications.

And the fact that you're not getting HCG with the test is a bit concerning as well.

The medical boards in a lot of states are coming down hard on the anti-aging medicine as well, because they feel it is outside the parameters of normal medicine, so that has people a bit gun shy also.

I know its frustrating, but it isn't necessarily a reflection on the quality of a doctor. It is more about their comfort level than anything.

And this doesn't even address the liability or malpractice issues, such as someone having an elevated PSA, or getting prostate cancer while on therapy. You're friggin' toast if that happens.

The guys here know WAY more than 99% of the docs when it comes to test and other AAS, but that's because aside from endocrinology, there isn't a lot of practical application to the knowledge in reguar medicine, so it isn't taught.

[danno39]

TrailRunAZ that was an awesome post! You brought up some interesting points that I have never thought of.

The doc that started me on TRT was 80 and doing the anti-aging routine himself. He retired a year later. I wonder if you find a doc near the end of his career if he would be more likely to prescribe low amount of test and HCG???

[Pac Man]

Damn Swoll, killer story... no pun intended. I don't think you will get much higher than 200mg.
Danno, your avatar is killing me bro!

[warchild]

great post trailrunaz

[Deltasaurus]

Mad props to Swoll

[binder]

200mg biweekly is standard PDR dosages for HRT. From there doctors adjust your dosages to obtain normal values. Your doctor actually seems more knowledgeable than most because he is actually doing a slight frontload to get the levels up faster and balance you out. The 200mg weekly then dropping down to biweekly will get your levels up to normal then he'll balance you out from there. if 200mg every week for 4 weeks doesn't get your sex drive up then you have some serious issues other than lower testosterone. At those dosages even with bottomed out testosterone your levels should raise to the high upper limits of the range.

[danno39]

Danno, your avatar is killing me bro!

My Avatars are as real as the Thai girls who send them to me...

[zaggahamma]

Not likely you'll find a doc who will write you for more than 200 mg/wk. Primary care docs don't know a lot about test replacement, just a bit about the Androgel. You do need an anti-aging doc most likely, or one that is more knowledgeable about AAS, etc., and comfortable writing the **.

Being a doc myself, I read this thread with a little bit of amusement, as people tend to get pissed when they come in and want something and don't get it.

A lot of times docs have the arrogant attitude, it's built in from med school, and some are just egotistical pricks, but there are some good ones out there as well.

In defense of the latter, the reason they don't want to write for the stuff is twofold. First, without the knowledge, they are afraid of harming you, and it's outside their comfort level. The wouldn't write scripts for other drugs they don't know about either. Second, we're held responsible for everything we do. Test is a scheduled drug, and the scripts are tracked in over 90% of the pharmacies. If anything happens that triggers the medical board to look at the history, as a doc you're accountable for all the controlled substance scripts and can get into deep shit and even lose a license for writing for the stuff outside the FDA indications.

And the fact that you're not getting HCG with the test is a bit concerning as well.

The medical boards in a lot of states are coming down hard on the anti-aging medicine as well, because they feel it is outside the parameters of normal medicine, so that has people a bit gun shy also.

I know its frustrating, but it isn't necessarily a reflection on the quality of a doctor. It is more about their comfort level than anything.

And this doesn't even address the liability or malpractice issues, such as someone having an elevated PSA, or getting prostate cancer while on therapy. You're friggin' toast if that happens.

The guys here know WAY more than 99% of the docs when it comes to test and other AAS, but that's because aside from endocrinology, there isn't a lot of practical application to the knowledge in reguar medicine, so it isn't taught.

Thanks for chiming in on the hrt forum...excellent points made and the sentence I highlighted off your post concerns me as well as I've been on trt mostly relatively high doses (done myself cuz script is low dose) for 2 1/2 years and asked for hcg about a year ago and my doc said he would refer me and at the time i couldnt afford to see another doc...i was hoping he could just add it to my therapy...guess he hasnt kept up on his anti aging learning...can you elaborate on this fact more esp. on the lines of will the boys ever come back and/or what are the chances that i am infertile?

thanks

[TRA]

Thanks for chiming in on the hrt forum...excellent points made and the sentence I highlighted off your post concerns me as well as I've been on trt mostly relatively high doses (done myself cuz script is low dose) for 2 1/2 years and asked for hcg about a year ago and my doc said he would refer me and at the time i couldnt afford to see another doc...i was hoping he could just add it to my therapy...guess he hasnt kept up on his anti aging learning...can you elaborate on this fact more esp. on the lines of will the boys ever come back and/or what are the chances that i am infertile?

thanks

I can't elaborate, as I don't know. I think the guys on the steroid forum would know better than I, but I would start doing some now if you're still on the test. I'll try to find out for you, and post or pm if I get some reliable info. No idea what the time limit is, but I do know the testes bounce back with HCG. It should be relatively easy to come by, as it isn't controlled. 500 IUs two days a week prior to your test should be good. But check with the guys on the forum under steroids. You can also get a sperm count to see if where you are in that area, but I would wait until after the HCG and give it a couple of months.

[zaggahamma]

I can't elaborate, as I don't know. I think the guys on the steroid forum would know better than I, but I would start doing some now if you're still on the test. I'll try to find out for you, and post or pm if I get some reliable info. No idea what the time limit is, but I do know the testes bounce back with HCG. It should be relatively easy to come by, as it isn't controlled. 500 IUs two days a week prior to your test should be good. But check with the guys on the forum under steroids. You can also get a sperm count to see if where you are in that area, but I would wait until after the HCG and give it a couple of months.

thanks bro

[SWOLLL]

TrailrunAz you bring up some excellent points there. I am mostly concerned with no hcg or arimidex my doc just seems to be opposed to that. I didn't realize hcg wasn't a controlled substance so that would mean I don't need a script to buy it, right?

And everyone else I guess 200wk would be fine I just have to realize I am not doing a cycle here. My major concern was that my Dr. wants to get me down to 200 a month with only one shot a month.

Now I am pretty sure all that is going to do is completely shut down my natural test and put me on a roller coaster ride.

Natureboy no complications besides a nasty scar and a 9mm slug in my spine, they wanted to remove it with yet another surgery but they said it wouldn't hurt to leave it there and even though they say its a minor surgery I am tired of getting cut on.

Thanks for all your support sorry it took me so long to reply the damn hurricane had us back in the dark ages for the week.

[binder]

It won't be a roller coaster. He's backing the dosages down gradually.

It also shouldn't be enough to completely shut down your testosterone production.

[TRA]

TrailrunAz you bring up some excellent points there. I am mostly concerned with no hcg or arimidex my doc just seems to be opposed to that. I didn't realize hcg wasn't a controlled substance so that would mean I don't need a script to buy it, right?

And everyone else I guess 200wk would be fine I just have to realize I am not doing a cycle here. My major concern was that my Dr. wants to get me down to 200 a month with only one shot a month.

Now I am pretty sure all that is going to do is completely shut down my natural test and put me on a roller coaster ride.

Natureboy no complications besides a nasty scar and a 9mm slug in my spine, they wanted to remove it with yet another surgery but they said it wouldn't hurt to leave it there and even though they say its a minor surgery I am tired of getting cut on.

Thanks for all your support sorry it took me so long to reply the damn hurricane had us back in the dark ages for the week.

No, you still need a script, in the US anyway. The fact that it's not controlled means it is not a scheduled medication, like narcotics, that its sales isn't tracked like narcotics are, and that it doesn't have the ramifications, erm, it would be like getting a blood pressure medicine somewhere besides with a script, if that makes sense. And again, the reason he/she doesn't want to write for it is because he/she isn't familiar and comfortable with its use.

Glad you made it through the weather okay, bro.

I too have a nasty abdominal scar from a gunshot wound. Mine was a .22 rifle point blank when I was sixteen. Damned near died from that, and goddamn did that hurt. Right in the belly. Crikies.

[zaggahamma]

No, you still need a script, in the US anyway. The fact that it's not controlled means it is not a scheduled medication, like narcotics, that its sales isn't tracked like narcotics are, and that it doesn't have the ramifications, erm, it would be like getting a blood pressure medicine somewhere besides with a script, if that makes sense. And again, the reason he/she doesn't want to write for it is because he/she isn't familiar and comfortable with its use.

Glad you made it through the weather okay, bro.

I too have a nasty abdominal scar from a gunshot wound. Mine was a .22 rifle point blank when I was sixteen. Damned near died from that, and goddamn did that hurt. Right in the belly. Crikies.

that a famous Irwin quote?

[TRA]

that a famous Irwin quote?

Haha...indeed

[SWOLLL]

.

I too have a nasty abdominal scar from a gunshot wound. Mine was a .22 rifle point blank when I was sixteen. Damned near died from that, and goddamn did that hurt. Right in the belly. Crikies.

There was a guy brought in ben taub the same night I was, someone car jacked him and shot him with a .22 in the stomach and after a dozen or so surgeries he died.

I understand that is a really bad gun to get shot with the slug ricochets around inside is what I hear. Seems like it wouldn't be so bad being a smaller caliber, well getting shot with anything is just plain awful.


Glad you made it

[SWOLLL]

It won't be a roller coaster. He's backing the dosages down gradually.

It also shouldn't be enough to completely shut down your testosterone production.

I was referring to the once a month shot as being a roller coaster ride.

my t levels will be where I want them for maybe two weeks then I will be back to where I am now for two weeks until my next shot.

I just want my t levels to where I feel good and have a sex drive .

I being no expert by a long shot know that everyones body responds differently to different amounts of T.

I used to cycle with a friend of mine a few years back we had our bloodwork done together our levels were nearly identical. The thing is he was taking 250mg of sustanon 3x week and I was doing exactly twice as much 500mg 3x week.

We had our labs done same exact time on the same day and back then we took our shots same days and times since I had to inject him we also started the cycle at the same time as well.

At that time I attributed it to me having done more cycles my body needed more test, that was what I was told and was the common way of thinking. Now I am not sure I believe that is entirely true.

What I do believe is that once you have used larger amounts of test and see the way you react and feel you definently don't want to go back down.

At this point in my life I am not interested in cycling I just want to keep a steady level of enough test to feel like myself.

I also learned keeping a steady level of test in your system is much better than what I was refering to as the roller coaster ride, maybe I should call it an emotional roller coaster ride.

If I am correct the half life of cyp is around 8 days so at best I assume after 16 days possibly 20 that whole 200mg shot is going to be out of my system, then I have 10 or more days of low t levels until my next shot. I could be wrong.

The 200mg a month may not be enough to shut down my natty test production but I am pretty sure the front loading of the 200 weekly then bi weekly will. Its kind of like the Dr. is wanting me to do the old tapering off that used to be so popular, that I know doesn't work.

Have you tried once a month injections binder? How did you react?

I am here to learn so don't think I am saying your wrong these are just my opinions and the few things I have learned over the years.

Anyone try once a month shots?

[binder]

I am not on hormone replacement.

The internal medicine doctor that I am interning has many patients on a monthly shot. Most are biweekly, but there are quite a few still on monthly. It depends on there levels. His standard use is Testosterone Enanthate 200mg/mL.

According to the 62nd edition of the PDR (which is what I have here) it states that the amount of SHBG (sex-hormone binding globulin) determines the ratio of total and free tesosterone in the blood and the half-life is dependent on the amount of free testosterone therefore dosage intervals can be anywhere from 2-4 weeks.

[FallenWyvern]

I am not on hormone replacement.

The internal medicine doctor that I am interning has many patients on a monthly shot. Most are biweekly, but there are quite a few still on monthly. It depends on there levels. His standard use is Testosterone Enanthate 200mg/mL.

According to the 62nd edition of the PDR (which is what I have here) it states that the amount of SHBG (sex-hormone binding globulin) determines the ratio of total and free tesosterone in the blood and the half-life is dependent on the amount of free testosterone therefore dosage intervals can be anywhere from 2-4 weeks.

This is all true, but bro knowledge suggests that a shot every two weeks is horrible ride. No science but many people really struggle with mood and energy in the 12-14 day. I would rather do gel or patches than a shot every two weeks.

Nice post AZ doc.

This is a directory of anti aging docs in the US.

http://www.lef.org/doctors/directoryofdoctors01.htm

[spywizard]

SWOLLL, Damn, if you don't mind saying, how on earth did you end up getting shot and was justice done on the persone who shot you? Glad you're still living and breathing. Also, you are one very big dude too.

I'd just take the first months shots every week and then after that just try and talk him into keeping you at this dose and frequency.

dang, i'm fairly intimidating, but i would have shot his ass if he was coming at me too.. especially someone that big..

difference is, 2 in the chest 1 in the head less than 2 seconds..

damn, glad you are ok..

and anti-aging, or aids doc will do the trick for ya..

[FallenWyvern]

dang, i'm fairly intimidating, but i would have shot his ass if he was coming at me too.. especially someone that big..

difference is, 2 in the chest 1 in the head less than 2 seconds..

damn, glad you are ok..

and anti-aging, or aids doc will do the trick for ya..

That is my doc's secondary expertise. Interesting.

[binder]

This is all true, but bro knowledge suggests that a shot every two weeks is horrible ride. No science but many people really struggle with mood and energy in the 12-14 day. I would rather do gel or patches than a shot every two weeks.

Nice post AZ doc.

This is a directory of anti aging docs in the US.

http://www.lef.org/doctors/directoryofdoctors01.htm

Even with a literature half life of 10-14 days?

Have you looked at research tested blood levels of people on hormone replacement throughout a month with biweekly dosages? There are many physiological things that can change a mood without the fluctuation of the test levels.

Remember, Test en or cyp is a graduate release and half life will be a graduate decline over that period. It's not like a 200mg/mL shot of test enanthate will raise your test levels to 800 then drop them. It will take quite a period of time for it to raise, then slowly drop.

[SWOLLL]

Remember, Test en or cyp is a graduate release and half life will be a graduate decline over that period. It's not like a 200mg/mL shot of test enanthate will raise your test levels to 800 then drop them. It will take quite a period of time for it to raise, then slowly drop.

Why would you want to have less than optimal T levels for any amount of time when its so easy to keep a steady T level?

[FallenWyvern]

Even with a literature half life of 10-14 days?

Have you looked at research tested blood levels of people on hormone replacement throughout a month with biweekly dosages? There are many physiological things that can change a mood without the fluctuation of the test levels.

Remember, Test en or cyp is a graduate release and half life will be a graduate decline over that period. It's not like a 200mg/mL shot of test enanthate will raise your test levels to 800 then drop them. It will take quite a period of time for it to raise, then slowly drop.

I agree with you. It's not what people say though. I can't see the downside of splitting up the doses, if the people are self injecting. BBers split up test c and e to twice a week.

[binder]

I agree with you. It's not what people say though. I can't see the downside of splitting up the doses, if the people are self injecting. BBers split up test c and e to twice a week.

this is oh so true. i agree with you totally. my post sounded a little negative once i read it and that wasn't what i was getting at. I was trying to give a medical point of view so people know where doctors are coming from. Also, since the doc i work with has everyone come in for injections, it's easier for the patients.

and lower fractionated dosages are the best, but that's not always what the doc is thinking. Patients complain when they have to come to the doctor all the time.

and yes, i split them up because i don't like to push 5cc in one injection! LOL

[T_man87]

I split my dose up twice weekly. Can't imagine how doing one shot every other week wouldn't lead to a roller coaster ride. I've considered going to a once a week shot, but I don't really mind the injects that much. Gotten used to them actually. It would really suck to have to go into the docs office to get my shots. I wouldn't be up to that even every other week.

BTW - quite a story there SWOLL. Glad you made it through well.