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Thread: Poll finds racial misgivings of whites on Obama issue

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    Poll finds racial misgivings of whites on Obama issue

    By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSON – 22 hours ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent" or responsible for their own troubles.

    The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about 2.5 percentage points.

    Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

    More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.

    Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.

    "There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.

    The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.

    The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home — among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.

    The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.

    Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.

    Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.

    On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.

    Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.

    Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.

    Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.

    Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.

    But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.

    The AP-Yahoo poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.

    Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.

    "We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.

    Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.

    Among white Democrats, one-third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.

    The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."

    Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.

    Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."

    Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."

    The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.

    Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes — including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.

    Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.

    Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes.

    The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.

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    Yeah, I am really gonna read that garbled mess you just posted.

    I'll give you a tip, please use paragraphs.
    ***No source checks!!!***

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    But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

    C'mon 40% of whites are against black people. If Obama wins are you gonna settle down about racisim? After all, the above article agrees he can't win without white votes. I doubt it.

    And in the future make your postings more reader friendly please, I couldn't struggle thru reading much of that.

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    its possibly true. But i think it goes the other way also. That there are black that dont like whites and will vote for obama just because he is black. in the end how does it even out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by muriloninja View Post
    Yeah, I am really gonna read that garbled mess you just posted.

    I'll give you a tip, please use paragraphs.
    From my computer and phone, it is seperated by paragraphs. It was cut and pasted from yahoo. Besides if you don't want to read, DON'T. The insulting comments and petty and childish! Grow up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

    C'mon 40% of whites are against black people. If Obama wins are you gonna settle down about racisim? After all, the above article agrees he can't win without white votes. I doubt it.

    And in the future make your postings more reader friendly please, I couldn't struggle thru reading much of that.
    That is exactly why I posted the article to show people like you that racism still exists and is quite prevalent. So with that being said, I won't "settle down" on the racism issue until it truly becomes a non-issue!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixxerboy1 View Post
    its possibly true. But i think it goes the other way also. That there are black that dont like whites and will vote for obama just because he is black. in the end how does it even out?
    Didn't you and I already do the math awhile back in a previous thread, Gixxer? Would you not agree that 40% of eligible whites is a greater number than even 95% of eligible black voters (considering blacks make up 13% of the population and whites close to 70%)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31 View Post
    Didn't you and I already do the math awhile back in a previous thread, Gixxer? Would you not agree that 40% of eligible whites is a greater number than even 95% of eligible black voters (considering blacks make up 13% of the population and whites close to 70%)?
    lol. I forgot. Yes that number would be larger

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31 View Post
    That is exactly why I posted the article to show people like you that racism still exists and is quite prevalent.
    That it is...

    Last winter I spent a week down in Florida in a beachfront condo down in Hallandale Beach. The condo tower is populated mostly by retired couples from the New York city area, mostly white hardcore democrats.

    Around the pool I overheard a lot of political talk about the Hillary VS Obama campaign between the old folks... sadly one thing I heard too many times was "If they think I'm voting for a ni**er"... WTF? this is 2008... wow.

    I was not impressed...

    Red

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    ever met a person without an opinion??

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    that's because life teaches each of us different things, people form opinions based on 1st hand experience (we hope, often times not)

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    Do we really want to open this can of worms. This could get ugly!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31 View Post
    That is exactly why I posted the article to show people like you that racism still exists and is quite prevalent. So with that being said, I won't "settle down" on the racism issue until it truly becomes a non-issue!
    what does it solve?
    I know it exists, but it isn't everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    what does it solve?
    I know it exists, but it isn't everything.
    Spoken like someone who isn't affected by racism. Sure its not everything but I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune if you were directly affected. And therein lies the problem. To the majority (whites), racism isn't a major issue because it doesn't affect them directly.

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    What worried me most of what I overheard is that the people saying those awefull things were NOT ignorant little punks, they were not skinheads or crackpot militia-men or stereotypical redneck "trailer trash".

    The men (and women) I overheard were highly educated, successfull and wealthy people. They were all of a religion thats had more than it's share of persecution over the ages and most of them were old enough to have experienced racism first hand. You'd think they'd know better.

    It really made me wonder...

    Red

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    We are no different to any other animal species on the planet, no matter how civilised we claim to be.

    Now a lot of animals in the wild are very social and live in social communities (meercats, Lions, Wolves, etc...) but if another group or Wolves or Lions wonders onto the patch "owned" by another pack, then an almighty fight will break out over territory. This is what I sometimes think racism/bigotry really is. "We were here first!"

    Why is it when people do wrong, it's the baser instincts shining through?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31 View Post
    Spoken like someone who isn't affected by racism. Sure its not everything but I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune if you were directly affected. And therein lies the problem. To the majority (whites), racism isn't a major issue because it doesn't affect them directly.
    so what should I do? Run out and hug a black person? Vote for Obama because he's black? or just keep living my life not thinking about racisim and being cool to everybody? you failed to quantify for me what you are solving by posting overstated statistics. Obama himself has said the race thing is a wash, he'll get some more votes from black people, loose some from some white people, and gain some from white people who are inspired by the idea of having a black leader. Either he really thinks that or he knows you can't change the people who are gonna be racist and complaining isn't going to get him more votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    so what should I do? Run out and hug a black person? Vote for Obama because he's black? or just keep living my life not thinking about racisim and being cool to everybody? you failed to quantify for me what you are solving by posting overstated statistics. Obama himself has said the race thing is a wash, he'll get some more votes from black people, loose some from some white people, and gain some from white people who are inspired by the idea of having a black leader. Either he really thinks that or he knows you can't change the people who are gonna be racist and complaining isn't going to get him more votes.
    Why call the stats overstated? I guess you are tired of hearing them but maybe if you hear them often enough you'll take your head out of the sand. Barack has never stated racism was dead or anything in the matter. But realize this if Obama did make an issue of race he would lose even more of the white vote as many white voters believe that he may have a 'black agenda' anyway. Underneath it all, the man IS a politician.

    What can you do? I can give 2 shits what you do? But my suggestion would be to actually look at the affect of racism on others besides yourself. Little do you know that it does affect you...more than you know!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31 View Post
    Why call the stats overstated? I guess you are tired of hearing them but maybe if you hear them often enough you'll take your head out of the sand. Barack has never stated racism was dead or anything in the matter. But realize this if Obama did make an issue of race he would lose even more of the white vote as many white voters believe that he may have a 'black agenda' anyway. Underneath it all, the man IS a politician.

    What can you do? I can give 2 shits what you do? But my suggestion would be to actually look at the affect of racism on others besides yourself. Little do you know that it does affect you...more than you know!
    I stated that at the very minimum he knows it won't get him any more votes, so he has nothing to gain by complaining about racisim. What do you hope to gain? So if you don't want any action from me or other white people and you give 2 shits, why do you want me to appreciate it's existance? You make no sense to me, complain all you want, it's childish if you ask me.

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    Clearly America is racist. Well not all of it, but there are many racist people.

    Obama will be president. Michael Jackson's thriller is the best selling album of all time. Oprah is a billionaire. Tiger Woods is my hero.

    Get over it, some people are racist and you can't do anything about it. If you let it hold you back, then they have won.

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    Wyvern you have hands down the best Avy in this place at the moment, WHO IS IT??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    I stated that at the very minimum he knows it won't get him any more votes, so he has nothing to gain by complaining about racisim. What do you hope to gain? So if you don't want any action from me or other white people and you give 2 shits, why do you want me to appreciate it's existance? You make no sense to me, complain all you want, it's childish if you ask me.
    Racism = childish...now I've heard it all! That's ridiculous!

    Anyway, I didn't say I gave 2 shits what other white people do, I said I could give 2 shits what YOU do. Go back and read it again.

    I didn't post the link to complain about racism. I live it everyday of my life. I poted the link because there has been many forum members, like you, that don't believe how prevelent racism is. So much so that it can/will affect the outcome of the next president of these United States. If you fell to see that then I feel sorry for you.

    Red Ketchup mad a very valid point on what he observed in Florida. The people he observed and other's like them, would rather vote for someone who is ideologically opposite from them just because they don't like the color of their ideological peer's skin color. Absurd!

    Now that truly doesn't make sense. But of course to you it doesn't matter because it isn't a 'real' problem!

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    I think you just misunderstand me BgMc
    I don't think taking about racisim is childish, and I know it exisits.
    Sometimes I feel like it's the only thing you find interesting in the news though.
    I get frustrated that you are opening up a complain fest where you expect people to re-affirm your views on racisim and any post that doesn't you take as a personal attack.
    That's what I was frustrated about.
    I feel like suvey's like this create a bigger divide between the races. I mean how is a black guy gonna feel comferatable talking to me if in his mind there is a 40% chance I hate him before he opens his mouth.
    I have an optamisitic view of racisim, I think it gets better year by year. Time will solve everything, and it's more innaproprate than it has ever been to make racisit comments. If someone makes them around me and I feel there is real hate behind what they are saying, I let it be known that I don't want to hear it. Rome wasn't built in a day.
    I don't want to see race hold anybody back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup View Post
    What worried me most of what I overheard is that the people saying those awefull things were NOT ignorant little punks, they were not skinheads or crackpot militia-men or stereotypical redneck "trailer trash".

    The men (and women) I overheard were highly educated, successfull and wealthy people. They were all of a religion thats had more than it's share of persecution over the ages and most of them were old enough to have experienced racism first hand. You'd think they'd know better.

    It really made me wonder...

    Red
    You would think that would be how it is but it has been my experience that the older the person the more racism so year by year it gets better generation by generation it gets better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ever41 View Post
    You would think that would be how it is but it has been my experience that the older the person the more racism so year by year it gets better generation by generation it gets better.

    Yeah I think that's true, as time goes on people become more and more tollerant. I think my parents generation and their parents generation came from way more intollerant times, and even though your upbringing pretty much defines who you are, our generation are far more capable of being rational about things. I wouldn't say each "year" racism gets better, I think every generation, 20-30 years, it gets better.

    But it's true, I know of people that wont vote for Obama based on just his skin colour but have no idea what McCain can offer them.

    It's ludicrous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
    Yeah I think that's true, as time goes on people become more and more tollerant. I think my parents generation and their parents generation came from way more intollerant times, and even though your upbringing pretty much defines who you are, our generation are far more capable of being rational about things. I wouldn't say each "year" racism gets better, I think every generation, 20-30 years, it gets better.

    But it's true, I know of people that wont vote for Obama based on just his skin colour but have no idea what McCain can offer them.

    It's ludicrous.
    that goes both ways buddy, i know ppl that will vote for obama based on just his skin color .....i dont kno how many people i've seen wearing that stupid tshirt on tv and saying vote for change vote obama but thats all they say because they dont know anything else

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