Nobody can answser this question

[KeepBuilding]

Why testosterone base makes you bloat more than all others testosterones if its half-life is the shorter one?

I have read this question in this forum before and no one can answer it.

[redz]

bloat is mostly diet related.

Test Cyp and Test Enanthate would have the highest insidents of bloat. I dont really understand your question as it is poorly written. Perhaps you could calrify.

[redz]

Are you asking why do some esters bloat more than others?

Are you asking which ester bloats the most?

[BIG_TRUCK]

Bloat is mainly estrogen related.

Some people are more sensitive to it then others.

My guess would be test p's more frequent injections makes it easier to keep blood levels stable and estrogen more regulated & not fluctuating.

[jimmyinkedup]

I dont know for sure but you are right suspension does blow me up with h20...thats why i havent done it in years.
A few guesses -
1-It is mg for mg the most powerful test b/c no esther attached so 100mg is truely 100mg of testosterone.
2-very rapidly enters system so also prob very rapidly aromitizes
3-leaves system quickly leaving hi estrogen levels with low test levels ..even if for short time periods (till next shot)
All three of these are guesses ..i dont know ..hoping someone can shed light on this ..im curious also.

[redz]

Am I the only one who still doesnt understand the original posters question?

[clockwork_killer]

redz ur not alone

[Mulciber]

could also be due to difference in dose of actual test..

for instance.. per 100mg of finished compound
cypionate: 70mg
decanoate: 65mg
enantate: 72mg
propionate: 84mg
suspension: 100mg

[jimmyinkedup]

Am I the only one who still doesnt understand the original posters question?

cant speak for the man but i thinke he's asking how come suspension (test base) casuses most h2o retition with no ester. Espcially when prop - shortest ester causes less than cyp and enanthate - longer esters. Hope im not speaking out of line "keepbuilding" if so then please clarify.

[jimmyinkedup]

could also be due to difference in dose of actual test..

for instance.. per 100mg of finished compound
cypionate: 70mg
decanoate: 65mg
enantate: 72mg
propionate: 84mg
suspension: 100mg

Thats what i was saying above in#1 - or trying to...

[Mulciber]

think you nailed it there jimmy

[Mulciber]

Thats what i was saying above in#1 - or trying to...

lol.... you beat me to it.. i was slow on the draw..

[redz]

Ok that makes more sense worded like that. I think the answer is mainly because of 2 reasons:

1-as stated above the highest percentage of real test ie 100mg=100mg without an ester

2-Suspension is rapidly absorbed and converts to estrogen more quickly as well resulting in more bloat however this side can be easily controlled as with any test by simply using an ai on cycle (aromasin,adex,letro)

[Mulciber]

true.. diet plays a roll as well

[jim37]

i used susp. before and bloated!! i was taking arimidex during and then added a 20mg nolvadex and reduced sodium and that helped!! i have since become a test. cyp. fanatic. can't explainwhy but seems antiestrogen and diet cleanup helped!!!

[jimmyinkedup]

Def agree with you guys on diet - big factor. Suspension was always a tough animal for me to tame even with a/i although back then I used proviron and nolva for estrogen control. Didnt know about armidex. Then on top of it it was a painfull shot . Had to use multiple times daily .All that together kinda made me say why bother!!

[KeepBuilding]

All right guys, I really appreciate all yours replys. I will re-write my question and add some points ok? Sorry for make everyone read it one more time.

At first, i think everybody knows that long esters makes you bloat more than shorter ones, but i never see the explanation of the mechanism behind it. Some will say its due the diferent half-lifes... but testosterone suspension has the shorter half life and makes you bloat more than all others. It doenst make sense right now.

Redz is right when he says the bloat effect is diet oriented, but someone following a diet and using test suspension will be more bloat if he follow the same diet and use test prop or enanth.


BIG TRUCK, i get your point, but even when you take test enant or cip in a daily basis you will be more bloat than when you take test prop in the same way. I think it isnt a matter of scheddule. By the way, thats why the injections should follow the half-life of each drug, to maintain the androgenic blood levels stable.

jimmi, your are right when you think about test suspension and all other esters, but when you think about test prop and test cip (for example) it drives you to the opposite conclusion.

redz, Do you got me now? If no, I can repeat it again with others words. =)

[redz]

Its all good makes sense now, good discussion topic.

[jimmyinkedup]

All right guys, I really appreciate all yours replys. I will re-write my question and add some points ok? Sorry for make everyone read it one more time.

At first, i think everybody knows that long esters makes you bloat more than shorter ones, but i never see the explanation of the mechanism behind it. Some will say its due the diferent half-lifes... but testosterone suspension has the shorter half life and makes you bloat more than all others. It doenst make sense right now.

Redz is right when he says the bloat effect is diet oriented, but someone following a diet and using test suspension will be more bloat if he follow the same diet and use test prop or enanth. Good point - but diet will def help


BIG TRUCK, i get your point, but even when you take test enant or cip in a daily basis you will be more bloat than when you take test prop in the same way. I think it isnt a matter of scheddule. By the way, thats why the injections should follow the half-life of each drug, to maintain the androgenic blood levels stable. Will you get more bloat that way?? I mean ive never done it daily but with enan I dont really get alot of bloat (or w/ prop) little more bloat with cyp ..

jimmi, your are right when you think about test suspension and all other esters, but when you think about test prop and test cip (for example) it drives you to the opposite conclusion.Hmm my theory ..and it is just that- is that full amount of testosterone is avail with base immediately ...therefore estrogen conversion(aromitization) happens almost immedaitely and even with an AI that spike in estro prob has sides..and it is also hard to maintain stable test levels with base ..much harder than prop so u r left with high estro / low relative test levels at least for a period unless u pin every 6-8 hrs round the clock.

redz, Do you got me now? If no, I can repeat it again with others words. =)

So possibly base is so fast acting your test / estro level fluxuate rapidly and dramatically = sides. Enanth and cyp - while less dramatic fluxuations ..much less ..but over a longer period = sides. Prop = perfect middle ground.
I definately cant answer your question with a fact - just theories and experince that says suspensions makes me retain h20 more than any other test i've used. Def understand your curiousity about it.

[OH REALLY]

cant answer this on any other forum you need to come to the right forum baby

even if the question doesn't make sense well answer it any way we love a challenge ........ bring it

[KeepBuilding]

So possibly base is so fast acting your test / estro level fluxuate rapidly and dramatically = sides. Enanth and cyp - while less dramatic fluxuations ..much less ..but over a longer period = sides. Prop = perfect middle ground.
I definately cant answer your question with a fact - just theories and experince that says suspensions makes me retain h20 more than any other test i've used. Def understand your curiousity about it.

I do understand your theorie, jimmi. I dont want merely disagree with you ok? Im really trying to learn why this diferent estrogenic conversion rate happens with diferents testosterone esters, and Im glad that some people like you stay here trying to teach me something I cant find out by myself.

Yes, testosterone suspension get quickly into blood stream after the injetion and it can make estrogens levels go high, causing all the estrogenic effects, like bloat, high pressure, etc. In the other side, long ester reachs the bloodstream slowly and the estrogenic effects still happens, but I dont think its due to the long period it keep acting in the body. If its true, after 4-6 weeks using test prop you will be bloated too, and I never see it happening (under the correct diet, of course).

[jimmyinkedup]

I do understand your theorie, jimmi. I dont want merely disagree with you ok? Im really trying to learn why this diferent estrogenic conversion rate happens with diferents testosterone esters, and Im glad that some people like you stay here trying to teach me something I cant find out by myself.

Yes, testosterone suspension get quickly into blood stream after the injetion and it can make estrogens levels go high, causing all the estrogenic effects, like bloat, high pressure, etc. In the other side, long ester reachs the bloodstream slowly and the estrogenic effects still happens, but I dont think its due to the long period it keep acting in the body. If its true, after 4-6 weeks using test prop you will be bloated too, and I never see it happening (under the correct diet, of course).

Not true cause the fluxuations are much shorter in duration with prop because of 1/2 life and frequent injections much more consistent and not only shorter duration but less dramatic fluxuation
my theory with cyp/enan was that while they are long acting it is never at the exact constant level it fluxuates ...and since longer time between injections while the fluxuation in test/estro ratio is less dramatic...it occurs over a longer period. With suspension in is a fast, very unmanageable and dramatic fluxuation .So in other words maybe its the fluxuation in test/estrogen ratios (test vs estrogen) that are causing sides. Using prop these fluxations would be less. Like I said just a theory. I respect the quest for knowledge ...at some point it might just come down to knowing what really happens ...not why. Thats about all I can think of -def an intriguing topic ...where is Patrick Arnold when you need him????

[breakbones]

It's fun reading all this knowledge fellas, keep it comin!

[KeepBuilding]

So the question still without a proper answer. Cant believe nobody here can explain this fact/mechanism.

[jimmyinkedup]

Would you also need to know why the earth revolves around the sun? Or do you accept that it does cause it has been proven so? It has been proven by years of use and experince which test effects bloat and how. Like I said above at some point that might just have to be enough. Read my edited post ..my last go and then im out of theories..and time *L* Very interesting thread though.

[LATS60]

So the question still without a proper answer. Cant believe nobody here can explain this fact/mechanism.

It's been answered, some guy with the initials AR wrote a theory on it.
Thats all it is a theory, there are no facts because there have never been any clinical/scientific studies done on it.
If you want you could study for a Phd in molecular science and then implement the studies yourself.
Failing that in 1958 there was one very small german study that did try within the very fundamentals of science to explain it.

[KeepBuilding]

Would you also need to know why the earth revolves around the sun? Or do you accept that it does cause it has been proven so? It has been proven by years of use and experince which test effects bloat and how. Like I said above at some point that might just have to be enough. Read my edited post ..my last go and then im out of theories..and time *L* Very interesting thread though.

Fine jimi, i already accept that the earth revolves around the sun but what Im looking for is the gravity force =)

Thank you very much for your help in my topic, I will do my search around the release of each ester into the bloodstream... maybe the answer is hiden in this facts.

[LATS60]

Fine jimi, i already accept that the earth revolves around the sun but what Im looking for is the gravity force =)

Thank you very much for your help in my topic, I will do my search around the release of each ester into the bloodstream... maybe the answer is hiden in this facts.

So there i was a diggin this hole

[kevin313]

prop = short ester so more frequent injections which yeild more stable levels, than spaced out injectiongs as in cyp or enan which = more bloat due to less stable levels is how i thought it was. i know lots of guys on enan onlyand with diet they dont hold any water, there jacked. anyone can be that way on any type of juice if they diet rite. i know its not easy dietings a bitch, liftings easy