why use clomid and nolva together?

[trc1819]

just wanted to know why people use nolva and clomid together for pct? dont they both do exactly the same thing only clomid is weaker?

[T-MOS]

have a read of this and see if it explains it better than i could

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

[trc1819]

many thanks for link.

''It should be avoided for the PCT I’m suggesting…and in fact, avoided in general…it’s simply not as good as Nolvadex.

Need I even add that the 150mgs of Clomid you need to get the hormonal increase experienced with 20mgs of Nolvadex is much more expensive? So lets dump the Clomid…and no, using it along with Nolvadex will provide no “synergy” that I’ve ever seen in any relevant study''.

surely this states that using nolva and clomid is pointless then? but why do people regularly recommend using them together?

[trc1819]

just read this in pheendos pct ( stickied )

Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

now, this states that clomid is better????? yet the article above states nolva is better????

[jimmyinkedup]

IMO clomid is actually more effective - this can be proven in published male fertility studies. Both have benefits and work via diff pathways - i use both and would recommend that. Plus by combining you get the benfits of clomid and the ability to take a lower dose by combining it with nolva. Clomid has more side effects. If had to pick just one honestly it would be clomid (thats was pct years ago btw - just clomid)

[T-MOS]

those thread are a few years old. and it seems the general consenses is to use both
nolva and clomid in PCT

I personally like Swifto's thread on PCT

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=349581

there are SO many ways and school's of thought on PCT, so I try not to get too deep into it. I think each person needs to find out what works best for them

[jimmyinkedup]

^^ good point - you will , over time , find out what your body best responds to. Bottom line - you would be hard pressed to make a serious mistake using swiftos / pheendos / or even pinncales pct protocols.

[Swifto]

IMO clomid is actually more effective - this can be proven in published male fertility studies. Both have benefits and work via diff pathways - i use both and would recommend that. Plus by combining you get the benfits of clomid and the ability to take a lower dose by combining it with nolva. Clomid has more side effects. If had to pick just one honestly it would be clomid (thats was pct years ago btw - just clomid)

Agreed.

There has been far more research on Clomid for male hypogonadism and infertility, than Tamoxifen.

I'm not trying to say Tamoxifen doesnt work, becuas it does. But I prefer Clomid at a low dose, than Tamoxifen. Anthony prefered Tamox and got horrible sides from Clomid, hence is biased view towards Tamox over Clomid.

Clomid doesnt exert the majority of its emotional, vision and skin issues on doses of 25-50mg/ED. Problems seem to be encountered when users exceed 100mg/ED.

But then, look into Toremifene. Its even better than Clomid with none of the sides...

[jimmyinkedup]

Agreed.

There has been far more research on Clomid for male hypogonadism and infertility, than Tamoxifen.

I'm not trying to say Tamoxifen doesnt work, becuas it does. But I prefer Clomid at a low dose, than Tamoxifen. Anthony prefered Tamox and got horrible sides from Clomid, hence is biased view towards Tamox over Clomid.

Clomid doesnt exert the majority of its emotional, vision and skin issues on doses of 25-50mg/ED. Problems seem to be encountered when users exceed 100mg/ED.

But then, look into Toremifene. Its even better than Clomid with none of the sides...

I definately want to try this next pct and have been gathering input from a few who have used it so i can do so properly.... I'll be picking some up in the next month before i start my cycle.....