Stem cells legal

[Kratos]

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama signed an order Monday that allows federal taxpayer dollars to fund expanded embryonic stem cell research, reversing one of his predecessor's policies viewed by many as blocking development of potentially life-saving medical treatment.

The executive order undoes former President George W. Bush's directive that was based on his determination that using embryos to create additional stem cell lines was morally wrong and, therefore, research on those lines should not be funded by the government.

Obama, however, said he was ending what he believed was "a false choice between sound science and moral values."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29586269

[Kratos]

good stuff, that policy was stupid
those embyo's were just gonna get freezer burnt

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Cool.

[Flagg]

It's about damn time.

To suggest that taking cells from a Blastocyte, a ball of aprox. 150 cells is a sentient life form and some sort of murder is simply ludricrous.

[BritishColumbian]

thats great, The research is going to make big progress now! good stuff!

[Dizz28]

About time

[Voice of Reason]

This is witchcraft, these scientist should burn!...

I hope I'll be able to buy a new liver tho by the time I'm in my 40's this is good news.

[MuscleScience]

Its about time, we are only 8 years behind the rest of the world.

[SilverTest]

wonderfull !!! cant wait to see whats going to result , it really makes you feel optimistic about this time we are living in , those of us young enough are going to witness a revolution in the medical field , as well as other things too

[DSM4Life]

i want some stem cells

[MuscleScience]

i want some stem cells

or do you just want a bunch of haploid cells...

[spywizard]

obama "Yep, screw morality, the drug companies need to make better pills so i can live longer and make decisions for those that don't agree with me.."

[Flagg]

obama "Yep, screw morality, the drug companies need to make better pills so i can live longer and make decisions for those that don't agree with me.."

Yeah, not like Bush wasn't making decisions for the last 8 years that no1 agreed with.

This is A GOOD THING. How you can turn this into a attack on Obama is mind boggling. Let's forget the massive gains in Medical Science and just attack Barrack Obama instead.

[warchild]

good stuff

[Kratos]

obama "Yep, screw morality, the drug companies need to make better pills so i can live longer and make decisions for those that don't agree with me.."

If your kid was dying and a cure was availible but it involved using an embryo to save her, what do you do?

For many americans like myself there is no moral conflict. Some religious groups don't think blood transfusions sould be given. Does their sense of morality outweight my right to live when I don't share their beliefs? Should we take blood out of the hospital fridges and leave it in the hands of God because that's what some think is right?

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

obama "Yep, screw morality, the drug companies need to make better pills so i can live longer and make decisions for those that don't agree with me.."

LOL...

[BgMc31]

If your kid was dying and a cure was availible but it involved using an embryo to save her, what do you do?

For many americans like myself there is no moral conflict. Some religious groups don't think blood transfusions sould be given. Does their sense of morality outweight my right to live when I don't share their beliefs? Should we take blood out of the hospital fridges and leave it in the hands of God because that's what some think is right?

I would destroy the shit out of that embryo that was gonna be destroyed anyway and save my already existing daughter!!!

[Hoggage_54]

Just recently here in Canada, they learned to reprogram skin cells to act like embryonic cells.

"Toronto scientists have scored a major breakthrough in stem cell research, coming first in a worldwide race to find a safer way to make human skin cells act like embryonic stem cells."

http://www.thestar.com/article/595058

[Tesla]

thats great, The research is going to make big progress now! good stuff!

LOL!! Probably not. The reality is that the free market has been able to experiment with these stem cells for years now. There never was a "ban" on this type of research. There was only a restriction on using government funds to support it.

Even for strong backers of embryonic stem cell research, the decision is no longer as self-evident as it was … In fact, during the first six weeks of Obama's term, several events reinforced the notion that embryonic stem cells, once thought to hold the cure for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and diabetes, are obsolete. The most sobering: a report from Israel published in PLoS Medicine in late February that shows embryonic stem cells injected into patients can cause disabling if not deadly tumors. .. this case is neither an anomaly nor a surprise, but one feared by many scientists.

[BuffedGuy]

I would destroy the shit out of that embryo that was gonna be destroyed anyway and save my already existing daughter!!!

This is not a very strong argument. I would probably kill everyone on earth to preserve the life of my daughter...if that was the choice given to me.

I don't have a view yet on this issue yet since I have not investigated it, but I do think that there is a moral issue when you create life and then kill it in order to preserve someone else's life. Should we also run medical experiments on prisoners like Adolf Hitler did? After all, that would lead to great leaps in medical science.

But again, I'm not decided on this issue yet, since I do not know what is involved in the process. Just playing angel's advocate here. For me, the whole issue revolves around the issue of when the soul comes to be. I have to look into that based on my religious beliefs, and I have to look into what goes on in stem cell research from a scientific perspective.

[MuscleScience]

I think its a step in the right direction. I think both side highly exaggerate the pro's and con's of stem cell research. I think like most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[BgMc31]

This is not a very strong argument. I would probably kill everyone on earth to preserve the life of my daughter...if that was the choice given to me.

I don't have a view yet on this issue yet since I have not investigated it, but I do think that there is a moral issue when you create life and then kill it in order to preserve someone else's life. Should we also run medical experiments on prisoners like Adolf Hitler did? After all, that would lead to great leaps in medical science.

But again, I'm not decided on this issue yet, since I do not know what is involved in the process. Just playing angel's advocate here. For me, the whole issue revolves around the issue of when the soul comes to be. I have to look into that based on my religious beliefs, and I have to look into what goes on in stem cell research from a scientific perspective.

I wasn't trying to make an argument, I was answering his question. This debate represents two trains of thought and that is what do you consider life and what you don't. IMO, comparing stem cell research to experiments on people like Hitler, and the US Government has (ie Tuskegee experiments), it way off based. But I also don't consider those embryoes life. But that is just my opinion.

[BuffedGuy]

I wasn't trying to make an argument, I was answering his question. This debate represents two trains of thought and that is what do you consider life and what you don't. IMO, comparing stem cell research to experiments on people like Hitler, and the US Government has (ie Tuskegee experiments), it way off based. But I also do consider those embryoes life. But that is just my opinion.

Cool. I'm undecided myself, since I haven't looked into the matter. I'm just saying that we shouldn't berate the other side for simply having a view. I don't think it's an obvious answer. It's something that will require deep contemplation and soul-searching, no pun intended.

[MuscleScience]

Cool. I'm undecided myself, since I haven't looked into the matter. I'm just saying that we shouldn't berate the other side for simply having a view. I don't think it's an obvious answer. It's something that will require deep contemplation and soul-searching, no pun intended.

The Chinese Dont seem to have a morale dilemma about it. They are years ahead on this type of research.

[j4ever41]

I think its a step in the right direction. I think both side highly exaggerate the pro's and con's of stem cell research. I think like most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Bro i was reading thru this thread and this has always been my exact thoughts on this topic.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

[Flagg]

This is not a very strong argument. I would probably kill everyone on earth to preserve the life of my daughter...if that was the choice given to me.

I don't have a view yet on this issue yet since I have not investigated it, but I do think that there is a moral issue when you create life and then kill it in order to preserve someone else's life. Should we also run medical experiments on prisoners like Adolf Hitler did? After all, that would lead to great leaps in medical science.

But again, I'm not decided on this issue yet, since I do not know what is involved in the process. Just playing angel's advocate here. For me, the whole issue revolves around the issue of when the soul comes to be. I have to look into that based on my religious beliefs, and I have to look into what goes on in stem cell research from a scientific perspective.

Okay, this argument is flawed and im sure is going to get shot down by everyone with strong religious beliefs. A blastocyte is NOT a human life and cannot be compared to a fully matured human being, being tortured. Please do not even try to say that it is the first step towards being human. It is not sentient, and it is not self aware, it has no thought processes. The cells havent even begun to differentiate yet, which is what is so special about them. If people really want to split ends about morality, lets make male masturbation illegal because surely that is killing several million potential "first steps" toward becoming human. Damn, lets stop women having periods while we're at it. I don't mean to get the "flame" thrower out Buffed, but it really frustrates me when people compare this to murdering babies (not that im saying you did).

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Okay, this argument is flawed and im sure is going to get shot down by everyone with strong religious beliefs. A blastocyte is NOT a human life and cannot be compared to a fully matured human being, being tortured. Please do not even try to say that it is the first step towards being human. It is not sentient, and it is not self aware, it has no thought processes. The cells havent even begun to differentiate yet, which is what is so special about them. If people really want to split ends about morality, lets make male masturbation illegal because surely that is killing several million potential "first steps" toward becoming human. Damn, lets stop women having periods while we're at it. I don't mean to get the "flame" thrower out Buffed, but it really frustrates me when people compare this to murdering babies (not that im saying you did).

x2

[IM708]

Yeah, not like Bush wasn't making decisions for the last 8 years that no1 agreed with.

This is A GOOD THING. How you can turn this into a attack on Obama is mind boggling. Let's forget the massive gains in Medical Science and just attack Barrack Obama instead.

x2

[Kratos]

who knows what will come out of it...I've heard from many smart people that stem cells are over-rated. I still am happy to see research done on the subject.

I shot a few million potential humans on the shower wall this morning...I think I heard them scream.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

A million of my potential children died on your daughters face last night.

[IM708]

A million of my potential children died on your daughters face last night.

[Flagg]

A million of my potential children died on your daughters face last night.

LOL!

[BuffedGuy]

Okay, this argument is flawed and im sure is going to get shot down by everyone with strong religious beliefs. A blastocyte is NOT a human life and cannot be compared to a fully matured human being, being tortured. Please do not even try to say that it is the first step towards being human. It is not sentient, and it is not self aware, it has no thought processes. The cells havent even begun to differentiate yet, which is what is so special about them. If people really want to split ends about morality, lets make male masturbation illegal because surely that is killing several million potential "first steps" toward becoming human. Damn, lets stop women having periods while we're at it. I don't mean to get the "flame" thrower out Buffed, but it really frustrates me when people compare this to murdering babies (not that im saying you did).

I see what you are saying, Flagg. That's why I said I'm on the fence on this one. Like I told you, it would depend on when the soul enters the body. Of course, most atheists don't believe in souls, but 90+% of Americans believe in God, so I assume they also believe in souls.

But I think even according to my own religion, the soul enters the body much after that...I believe 40 days, but I need to look it up. This is, however, a very contentious issue, since everyone is going to have different religious/spiritual beliefs. If Christians believe that the soul enters before that, then I could totally see why they would have a problem with it.

[D7M]

But I think even according to my own religion, the soul enters the body much after that...I believe 40 days, but I need to look it up.

Buffed needs to look something up?

huh? i guess he's not a machine after all.

[BuffedGuy]

Buffed needs to look something up?

huh? i guess he's not a machine after all.

Haha, I don't know a lot of stuff. Although kudos to myself for being right about the 40 days thing. (Hmmm, perhaps that icon is not appropriate lol.)

OK, I looked up the issue, and found a relevant fatwa (religious edict) from a reliable Islamic authority that says that there is nothing wrong with stem cell research. The fatwa is very detailed, and I know how you all love to read my long posts, so I'll try to just highlight the relevant parts:

Our answer is that the embryo in this stage is not human....According to the Shari`ah (Islamic Law), we should make a distinction between actual life and potential life...an embryo...has the potential to grow into a human being, but it is not yet a human being...No one treats them as humans. Destroying such embryos is not called and cannot be called abortion. We disagree with the Catholic position that this is “equivalent to infanticide”.

Muslim jurists have made a clear distinction between the early stages of pregnancy (first 40 days) and its later stages...

So there is nothing wrong in doing this research, especially if this research has a potential to cure diseases...It is claimed by the experts in the field that the research on stem cells has great potential to relieve human disease and suffering. If this is the case then it is not only allowed but it is obligatory (fard kifayah) to pursue this research.

(excerpts from the fatwa passed by the Fiqh Council of North America)

To conclude, we Muslims have no problem with it. However, if our Christian cousins think that life starts before we say it does, then is this not an issue where religious tolerance should apply? Even if we disagree with them, I think we should be respectful of their right to disagree and not belittle them. Wallahu Aalim (And God Knows Best!)

[MuscleScience]

I see what you are saying, Flagg. That's why I said I'm on the fence on this one. Like I told you, it would depend on when the soul enters the body. Of course, most atheists don't believe in souls, but 90+% of Americans believe in God, so I assume they also believe in souls.

But I think even according to my own religion, the soul enters the body much after that...I believe 40 days, but I need to look it up. This is, however, a very contentious issue, since everyone is going to have different religious/spiritual beliefs. If Christians believe that the soul enters before that, then I could totally see why they would have a problem with it.

Your in school to be an MD arent your. If so you will shortly became apathetic towards human life anyway, just like all my MD buddies......

[BuffedGuy]

Your in school to be an MD arent your. If so you will shortly became apathetic towards human life anyway, just like all my MD buddies......

lol

Very true.

[Nicotine]

most embryo's come from irresponsible whores, that were going to be thrown out anyway.

if they are going in the waste bin, why not put them to good use instead?

like, MAKING embryo's for this purpose - not cool at all.

using embryo's that would have ended up in the abortion bin, about time!

i like that obama doesn't use god as a means to hold back progress....

[Flagg]

Your in school to be an MD arent your. If so you will shortly became apathetic towards human life anyway, just like all my MD buddies......

Nah im doing Environmental Science, but sometimes I wish I WAS doing a MD cause I miss biology. ES has a lot of physics and geology in it, with a splash of chemistry.