At what point does muscle stimulation=growth?

[ScottyDog]

I'm a long time reader, some time poster. One question I have never really been able to get answered is at what point a muscle has been stimulated enough to grow. Now, I've read most of the stickies many times over and read countless other posts on the best workout(s) guaranteed to increase muscle mass. But I have never seen a definitive answer as to when exactly that sweet spot has been reached.

Cardio, for instance, seems to have upper and lower limits(moderate intensity assumed). Five minutes on a treadmill will probably do next to nothing for you. I've also read that any cardio over 45-60 minutes is of no additional benefit either. So the sweet spot seems to be in the middle. Does the same logic apply to gaining muscle?

When I think of building muscle, making bread seem analogous. Yeast being the muscle and water being the stimulation. Water too cold will not activate the yeast. Water too hot will kill it. Water at the right temperature results in yeast activation and the dough rises. There is also a delay between stimulation(adding water) and result(activation/rising). It seems to me muscle works the same way.

But how much stimulation is "enough" and how much is too much? I've heard both exercising to failure is good or it's bad. I've seen guys in the gym who spend an hour or more focusing on one body part. I've also read books like Pete Sisco's on static holds(extremely heavy weight, held for 5 seconds). Is the trigger for growth really an amount of weight or time?

Is it possible to know when a certain muscle has received enough stimulation to grow? Does continued stimulation past that point equate to greater gains? Or, is it simply wasted energy? Could too much at one time be detrimental?

[J-Dogg]

I think at a certain point, your muscles are too fatigued to really make working them anymore worth while.

I can work bicepts in 45 minutes:

4 sets barbell
4 sets seated dumbell
4 sets preacher machine
a few drop sets on the dumbell rack.

I have a hard time holding my cell to my ear by the time i'm done from fatigue and the pump. I think anymore than that you are just wasting time.

I think at a certain point, you could even start to metabolize muscle unless you are taking good long breaks between sets. My heart rate gets over 150 almost ever set and some times it gets to around 180. I'm sure it does not drop back down much between sets, so I could see how you could burn some muscle if you were working out lifting hard for hours on end.

[ScottyDog]

But that's my point. You're doing 12+ sets for one muscle on a given day. Does muscle require that much stimulation for it to grow? Is there be a point of diminishing return? What if the 4 sets of preacher only return a 40% benefit of the previous two exercises? The drops sets then only 30%. And so on.

Would say, doing 3 sets of curls with enough weight so that each set results in failure at the 10th rep, be enough?

[collar]

well you would know how much your body is benefiting, it gets to a point where you realise you could be over training and you dont have that ultimate pump anymore.

thats what i go by i get so pumped and im aware theres no more for it to pump after that.
and you can feel when you go past that point there is no pump anymore, it just your going backwards and over training.
work with your body.
which usually is about 10 to 12 sets.
but it differs with each body

[ScottyDog]

I've been working out, on and off, for years now and have never truly seen good results. I think I've always been under or over training. Obviously, it's frustrating when the results never seem to come. I'm starting over, but with fresh eyes and ears. I no longer am able to spend an hour at the gym(work/baby/etc), nor do I expect to look like an Adonis in five minutes a day. I'd like to condense a workout to say, 15 minutes, focusing on one body part per day. I don't mind working hard, I just don't want to waste time/energy.

I did try Pete Sisco's static holds and remember seeing some success with that. A very counter intuitive approach, but it seemed to work. Although it could have been more of Mental/CNS adaptation thing than anything.

[collar]

you know its pretty much very hard to get a workout in 15 minutes, like by time you warm up and so on.

A suggestion is maybe do one body part a day and probably just one exercise and see if you can get 6 to 8 sets out maybe, i know its very hard to in 15 minute but that means you will have to minimise the rest almost to nothing..

or perhaps setting up a circuit and going at that.
but you really do have to give yourself more time.

perhaps even doing some push ups at home,dips,squats, and crunches. you know when dont have time.
and if you are not really seen results perhaps working with your diet, but once again you are limited in 15 minute i must say.

[ScottyDog]

Yeah, I realize the constraints I'm putting on myself. But that's all I can do right now. I'm hoping this will be a good starting point and I'll be able to add more time in the future. Although, I'm interesting in finding out exactly how much I'll be able to accomplish in that amount of time, if anything at all.

Thx for the advice, I appreciate it!

[Critical Mass]

well you would know how much your body is benefiting, it gets to a point where you realise you could be over training and you dont have that ultimate pump anymore.

thats what i go by i get so pumped and im aware theres no more for it to pump after that.
and you can feel when you go past that point there is no pump anymore, it just your going backwards and over training.
work with your body.
which usually is about 10 to 12 sets.
but it differs with each body

x2 .

[Darksyde]

it varys from person to person. one guy i see in the gym, who i think is on gear, comes in and does like one exercise for that body part then one more supplemental type exercise for it then leaves. he is there for like 20 or 30 minutes max. and he is built. like i said i think he is on gear to be as big as he is but his way seems to work for him.

[AdamGH]

Your health is worth more than 15 minutes. You can find the time if you really wanted. Imo, you just dont want to make the sacrifices. If I wanted, I could make it so I dont have the time to exercise either. I just dont handle it that way. You either want to be healthy and take care of yourself or you dont. It's as simple as that.

[AdamGH]

it varys from person to person. one guy i see in the gym, who i think is on gear, comes in and does like one exercise for that body part then one more supplemental type exercise for it then leaves. he is there for like 20 or 30 minutes max. and he is built. like i said i think he is on gear to be as big as he is but his way seems to work for him.

he is maintaining what he has. he wasn't like that in the beginning.

[Ronnie Rowland]

The muscle stimulating process is a revolving motion that involves taking a step back by breaking down muscle tissue then taking a step forward when recovery takes place. During the activation state dormant satelite cells are stimulated to enter the cell. This allows for more protein sythesis to take place. Muscle growth is a complex process which involves a variety of signaling compounds. We still have things to learn as to how muscle growth takes place.