Need help Cutting

[goldtravel]

I'm 26 , 5'9", 180lbs, 16% BF. I've been reading the site here for quite some time and I think I have somewhat of a diet laid out, I'm basiclly looking to get to around 11% BF I'm guessing 10-12lbs should do it. Judging by my activity level I would say I need around 2500-2600 cal a day to maintain.

Meal 1:

8 Egg Whites
1 cup oatmeal
10 raisins
50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

Meal 2:

Lean Ground Beef 150g
green veggies
30g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat

Meal 3:

Chicken Breast 150 g
20g whey
50g protein / 14g carbs / 3g Fat

Meal 4:

2 Cans of Tuna
1 tbsp Light Mayo
40g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat

Workout

Meal 5: PWO

2 Scoops Whey Protein
40g of Dextrose
30g protein / 60g carbs / 0g fat

Meal 6:

Chicken Breast 150g
200g baked potatoe
35g protein / 60g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 7

Cottage Cheese 350g
1 apple
Fat free yougurt
1 small cucumber
30g protein / 5g carbs / 5g fat

If my math is right the macros come out to Protein 265 Carb 250 Fat 60 Total Calories around 2300.

I'm also thinking about doing 20-30 minutes of cardio 3 times a week. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[eatrainrest]

I'm 26 , 5'9", 180lbs, 16% BF. I've been reading the site here for quite some time and I think I have somewhat of a diet laid out, I'm basiclly looking to get to around 11% BF I'm guessing 10-12lbs should do it. Judging by my activity level I would say I need around 2500-2600 cal a day to maintain.

Meal 1:

8 Egg Whites
1 cup oatmeal
10 raisins
50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat
good, elimiante raisins and maybe jack to 1.25 cups oats

Meal 2:

Lean Ground Beef 150g
green veggies
30g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat
id save this for one of the last 2 meals

Meal 3:

Chicken Breast 150 g
20g whey
50g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
HOW ARE THERE 64G OF CARBS HERE? eat 6-8 oz of chicekn here and thatll do for protein..

Meal 4:

2 Cans of Tuna
1 tbsp Light Mayo
40g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat
this meal here should be a pro/carb meal save this for AFTER pwo

Workout

Meal 5: PWO

2 Scoops Whey Protein
40g of Dextrose
30g protein / 60g carbs / 0g fat
ok, althouh id add more pro

Meal 6:

Chicken Breast 150g
200g baked potatoe
35g protein / 60g carbs / 3g fat

good thsi should be 1-1.5 hours after initial pwo
Meal 7

Cottage Cheese 350g
1 apple
Fat free yougurt
1 small cucumber
30g protein / 5g carbs / 5g fat
bingo, to many simple sugars say bye to apple and yogurt

If my math is right the macros come out to Protein 265 Carb 250 Fat 60 Total Calories around 2300.
should be a 40/40/20 if your gnna run something liek this.. 20 being fats

I'm also thinking about doing 20-30 minutes of cardio 3 times a week. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

cardio-
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384553 CARDIO AND HR

[goldtravel]

Meal 3 was a mistake with the 64g carbs, thanks for the input.

[eatrainrest]

have you watched the vids that we dish out here?

[goldtravel]

have you watched the vids that we dish out here?

Yes I actually own the Milos DVD's. As far as the cardio goes, how many times a week would you reccomend I do it, if any at all. If I was to do cardio I would end up doing it first thing in the morning for 20-30 minutes, would I have to change my first meal to accomadate at all?

[eatrainrest]

Yes I actually own the Milos DVD's. As far as the cardio goes, how many times a week would you reccomend I do it, if any at all. If I was to do cardio I would end up doing it first thing in the morning for 20-30 minutes, would I have to change my first meal to accomadate at all?

if your cutting if convenient id run it 2x per week 5 days a week for 10 times of cardio to shed fat. just be sure to account for that as activitiy to your BMR. tahts me, personally i just go when im at the gym and post workout so 4-5x a week for 30 minutes is whats convenient for me.

hers a great thread on AM cardio

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=380883 AM CARDIO

[goldtravel]

Is this any better, for the record I have access to many other foods, if you guys have any actual food substitutes like turkey or eggs please chime in, I appreciate the replys so far


Meal 1:

8 Egg Whites
1.25 cup oatmeal
50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

Meal 2:

Lean Ground Beef 150g
1 cup btown rice
30g protein / 60g carbs / 20g fat


Meal 3:

2 Cans of Tuna
1 tbsp Light Mayo
40g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat
Not really sure what I'm suppose to eat here, please help.

Meal 4:

Chicken Breast 150 g
50g protein / 0g carbs / 3g Fat

Workout

Meal 5: PWO

2 Scoops Whey Protein
40g of Dextrose
30g protein / 60g carbs / 0g fat


Meal 6:

Chicken Breast 150g
200g baked potatoe
35g protein / 60g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 7

Cottage Cheese 350g
1 small cucumber
40g protein / 0g carbs / 5g fat

[goldtravel]

Sorry for hte bump but threads move so fast here, any more tweaks or ideas are welcome

[jamyjamjr]

Is this any better, for the record I have access to many other foods, if you guys have any actual food substitutes like turkey or eggs please chime in, I appreciate the replys so far


Meal 1:

8 Egg Whites
1.25 cup oatmeal
50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

Meal 2:

Lean Ground Beef 150g
1 cup btown rice
30g protein / 60g carbs / 20g fat
id move this closer to bed time.. second to last meal at least

Meal 3:

2 Cans of Tuna
1 tbsp Light Mayo
40g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat
complex carb.. make a sandwitch out of it with some ezekiel bread.

Meal 4:

Chicken Breast 150 g
50g protein / 0g carbs / 3g Fat
add complex carb.. especially pre workout
Workout

Meal 5: PWO

2 Scoops Whey Protein
40g of Dextrose
30g protein / 60g carbs / 0g fat


Meal 6:

Chicken Breast 150g
200g baked potatoe
35g protein / 60g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 7

Cottage Cheese 350g
1 small cucumber
40g protein / 0g carbs / 5g fat
you can omit this, double up on your ground beef and eat it here... just make up for the protien lost by adding more beef

rest of your diet looks good.. how close is this to you bmr/tdee?

[goldtravel]

It should be about 200-300 below my tdee. If I use meal two towards the end of the day, what would you suggest meal two looks like?

[eatrainrest]

It should be about 200-300 below my tdee. If I use meal two towards the end of the day, what would you suggest meal two looks like?

he says meal 2 should be at the end because of the slow digesting london broil.. kepe the brown rice there and swap london broil with grilled chicken/lean fish and eat the london broil as one of the last, if not the last protein source

[jamyjamjr]

u can use extra lean ground beef too.. just double up on the serving size and omit the cottage cheese at the end of the night bro.. not hard...

[goldtravel]

Jamyjam thanks for the replys, what's your whole take on cardio?

[MACKATTACK]

30-45mins pre breakfast................low intensity

20 mins post workout, changing levels of intensity 1 min slow 2 mins very intense

[eatrainrest]

30-45mins pre breakfast................low intensity

20 mins post workout, changing levels of intensity 1 min slow 2 mins very intense

if your looking to cut that should be the opposite and high intensity should be ran for about 1-1.5 minutes at 80% HR, followed by 3+ minutes low intensity

[MACKATTACK]

if your looking to cut that should be the opposite and high intensity should be ran for about 1-1.5 minutes at 80% HR, followed by 3+ minutes low intensity

From the two body builders I has conversation with today think the exact opposite of you. Personally they both say more minutes high less minutes low........

[goldtravel]

if your looking to cut that should be the opposite and high intensity should be ran for about 1-1.5 minutes at 80% HR, followed by 3+ minutes low intensity

Thanks again, will take pics before and hopefully after with some results

[eatrainrest]

From the two body builders I has conversation with today think the exact opposite of you. Personally they both say more minutes high less minutes low........

that will in turn use muscle as energy for longer periods of time and will further the catabolic process. unless you are carb up-do not exceed high intensity for long periods of time, if your set on doing high intensity intervals (of course while on a carb up day), than double the time of your low intensity. doubling the tiem of high intensity to low intensity will make no sense on a caloric deficient diet espeicllay carb deficient. you will sacrifice muscle.

[Cheylayna1978]

From the two body builders I has conversation with today think the exact opposite of you.

Agreed. The bb'ers you spoke with are correct (of course as they know what they are doing) and I agree with the suggestion above you made in the cardio being done low intensity for 30-45 mins (I do 40 a.m. daily in the morning upon rising) but never do cardio post-workout as that is time spent focusing on the critical post-workout nutritional window of increased uptake/availability.

Cardio executed at 65-75% of your max heart rate for 45 minutes is gold for fat loss and sparing lean muscle tissue. I am upping my 40 mins to 45 even though it's only 5 mins but at that point in the cardio I am burning a great deal of fat to fuel the session, so every minute counts. It takes one roughly 20 mins (an ECA or CLEN can speed this time up) to break into the "fat burning/fatty acid mobilization stage, so at the 40 min mark I've been mobilizing fat stores for basically 20 mins and 45 mins would then make that fat-blasting time 25 mins so it's beneficial to crank out that additional 5 mins being I am in full fat-4-fuel mode.

Tis' the reason I love and highly recommend "a.m on empty after rising" low-med intensity cardio. The eliptical trainer is my fav choice of equipment. It's low/no impact, you get to move your arms as well as the legs, and the arms are at or ABOVE your heart level, thus making the bodyparts used very high in count, enabling one to get into the correct heart-rate zone very quickly. The arms at or slightly above heart level is another benefit as well.

Those are my 2 pennies.

'Layna

[Phate]

if your looking to cut that should be the opposite and high intensity should be ran for about 1-1.5 minutes at 80% HR, followed by 3+ minutes low intensity

From the two body builders I has conversation with today think the exact opposite of you. Personally they both say more minutes high less minutes low........

you two are both correct, what eatrainrest is talking about it more of a HIT(interval training) while what mack is talking about is more HIIT(high intensity interval training), both are effective by HIT has to be run longer than HIIT IMO

Agreed. The bb'ers you spoke with are correct (of course as they know what they are doing) and I agree with the suggestion above you made in the cardio being done low intensity for 30-45 mins (I do 40 a.m. daily in the morning upon rising) but never do cardio post-workout as that is time spent focusing on the critical post-workout nutritional window of increased uptake/availability.

studies show you have 2 hours for this anabolic window, though if you want to make sure you get in the cortisol blunting effects from PWO nutrition that is perfectly fine, either way, just though i would add this, you know whats best for you

Cardio executed at 65-75% of your max heart rate for 45 minutes is gold for fat loss and sparing lean muscle tissue. I am upping my 40 mins to 45 even though it's only 5 mins but at that point in the cardio I am burning a great deal of fat to fuel the session, so every minute counts. It takes one roughly 20 mins (an ECA or CLEN can speed this time up) to break into the "fat burning/fatty acid mobilization stage, so at the 40 min mark I've been mobilizing fat stores for basically 20 mins and 45 mins would then make that fat-blasting time 25 mins so it's beneficial to crank out that additional 5 mins being I am in full fat-4-fuel mode.


this can be sped up with fat mobilizers/oxidizers such as caffeine(stimulates release of fat into bloodstream and oxidizes fat for energy), CLA, and L-Carnitine as well

Tis' the reason I love and highly recommend "a.m on empty after rising" low-med intensity cardio. The eliptical trainer is my fav choice of equipment. It's low/no impact, you get to move your arms as well as the legs, and the arms are at or ABOVE your heart level, thus making the bodyparts used very high in count, enabling one to get into the correct heart-rate zone very quickly. The arms at or slightly above heart level is another benefit as well.

Those are my 2 pennies.

'Layna

i would give you a dollar for that info instead, very good and solid post

[eatrainrest]

this is going to start a war with me and cardio opinions lol...

[Phate]

this is going to start a war with me and cardio opinions lol...

that's okay, it'll be fun, mount up

[eatrainrest]

IMO, OP, if your serious about losing weight compensate for cals burned for activity and subtract by 500.

i would follow this cardio routine
-
45 min AM (i prefer not on an empty tank) at 60-65% HR, followed by pro/carb breakfast.

and 20-30 minutes POST WORKOUT(post workout is a very ideal time while on proper diet low intensity cardiovascular training will use fats as its primary energy source while in an already glycogen depleted state). YES, pwo nutrition is extremely important post workout so id recommend a no calorie refeed by supplying the body with 5-10g BCAA's WHILE DURING CARDIO. bottom line is if your NOT concerned about cutting than you could consume your PWO nutrition WHILE doing cardio. if you ARE serious about cuttting, than wait till after cardio, then some as muscle science pointed out a 2 hour window before there is a negative effect. with that being said, you burn x amount of fat kcals after low intensity cardio, how many is unknown. if your cutting post workout, do your cardio wiht the free form aminos as your refeed, this will avoid the insulin spike supplied by PWO nutrition, then wait sometime before sucking down that PWO shake.

[Phate]

IMO, OP, if your serious about losing weight compensate for cals burned for activity and subtract by 500.

i would follow this cardio routine
-
45 min AM (i prefer not on an empty tank) at 60-65% HR, followed by pro/carb breakfast.

and 20-30 minutes POST WORKOUT(post workout is a very ideal time while on proper diet low intensity cardiovascular training will use fats as its primary energy source while in an already glycogen depleted state). YES, pwo nutrition is extremely important post workout so id recommend a no calorie refeed by supplying the body with 5-10g BCAA's WHILE DURING CARDIO. bottom line is if your NOT concerned about cutting than you could consume your PWO nutrition WHILE doing cardio. if you ARE serious about cuttting, than wait till after cardio, then some as muscle science pointed out a 2 hour window before there is a negative effect. with that being said, you burn x amount of fat kcals after low intensity cardio, how many is unknown. if your cutting post workout, do your cardio wiht the free form aminos as your refeed, this will avoid the insulin spike supplied by PWO nutrition, then wait sometime before sucking down that PWO shake.

if not concerned with cutting why do post workout cardio at all?


the afterburn effect is noted for HIT and especially HIIT cardio, but not as much for steady state low intensity as the whole point of low intensity is to not increase your metabolic rate greatly

BCAAs, lucein especially, cause an insulin spike

[eatrainrest]

if not concerned with cutting why do post workout cardio at all?
hers an intersting read you shoudl check out about the "refeeding" process

Eating and mitochondrial Re-education

...about ingesting large amounts of carbs immediately after your workout

"you will be making blood glucose available to the muscle tissue exactly when it needs it th emost...immediately after the workout. these eating habits, along with THE PERFORMANCE OF AS MUCH POSTWORKOUT LOW LEVEL ACTIVITY AS POSSIBLE, WILL AID IN THE MITOCHONDRIAL RE-EDUCATION PROCESS; as the performance of activity forces adipose tissue to release energy thgouh a triggered hormonal response, and it cannot release and store energy at the same time. this means that the primary destination for the newly ingested carbs while performing activity, is the muscles and their mitochondria. hence, you are "force feeding" the muscles while dissalowing fat storage. fairly inactive muscle tissue "receptor sites" will become "re educated" as well through this process. with time, this methodology should result in the participant's ability to perform the same number of reps in the follow up sets in each particular exercise".

NOW, in regards to the refeed process, i concluded along with spy that free form aminos (bcaa's) would probly be your best bet as it will refeed the muscle tissue and by no introducing any calories (therefore having your body not run off those calories because it will burn what food you put in first before stored fat), and having no insulin spike as well. Muscle Science spoke about a 2 hour window before negative effects occur in protein synthesis. so with this information at hand its definately based on your goals.

example


the afterburn effect is noted for HIT and especially HIIT cardio, but not as much for steady state low intensity as the whole point of low intensity is to not increase your metabolic rate greatly

BCAAs, lucein especially, cause an insulin spike

well, the question was designated to the OP who is interested in losing weight. Also, aside formt he obvious health benefits from cardio training, it will aid in other things as well. low level post workout activity will aid as a cool down period. the only reason i would see alternatig high and low intensities would be on a carb up day. otherwise, in a glycogen depleted state why woudl you want to do high intensity cardio for prolonged periods of times. phate, not saying you advocate it but people have this misconception. the problem is with high intensity training you use muscle as a primary energy source. this plus a calorie deficit and carb deificiet state will do nothing but damage.

this link sums up through experience and training what i believe to be effective cardio routine

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384553

[Phate]

i was just trying to start a debate, though i don't see where you get muscle as a primary energy source during HIIT training unless you mean only in a glycogen depleted state

[eatrainrest]

i was just trying to start a debate, though i don't see where you get muscle as a primary energy source during HIIT training unless you mean only in a glycogen depleted state

well over 70% HR is a basic indicator that you are using muscle as your primary energy source, hence anaerobic cardio exercise,

[Phate]

well over 70% HR is a basic indicator that you are using muscle as your primary energy source, hence anaerobic cardio exercise,

studies? glycogen is the primary energy source of anaerobic cardio, weight lifting is one of the most anaerobic things you can do, and if muscle was the primary energy source we would all be spinning our wheels

[eatrainrest]

studies? glycogen is the primary energy source of anaerobic cardio, weight lifting is one of the most anaerobic things you can do, and if muscle was the primary energy source we would all be spinning our wheels

well of course carbs is the first, sorry i didnt make that clear. in carb depleted states like AM, POST WORKOUT (when cardio is ideal), you better not be calling on anaerobic cardio or the fact is (for prolonged periods of times) you will cannablize muscle tissue.

have you ever noticed the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner? high intensity short bursts 80-85% is my recommended range * and this is only when you are on a carb up day! unless preparing for a sporting event you can train at higher HR intensitites.

ASIDE FROM EXCLUSIVE HIGH REP TRAINING WITH A HIGH RECOVERY HEART RATE FOR AEROBIC STIMULATION, THERE IS LITTLE FATTY ACID USE FOR ENERGY DURING THE RESISTANCE WORKOUT.
THE MAJORITY OF ENERGY USED DURING RESISTANCE EXERCISE COMES FROM GLUCOSE AND/OR STORED SUGAR (GLYOGEN) IN THE MUSCLES.

[eatrainrest]

OP, enjoy lol