I dont understand some of this stuff. Help me out!

[SickBastard]

OK, so I want to to a Test E/Dbol cycle, and Im still a bit cloudy about some of these PCT Drugs. So let me tell you guys what I think and then you tell me if im correct.

So I will run Test E (12 week) with a Dbol Front load (4-5 week) I will also use HCG from day 1ish @ 250iu EOD to keep the LH signal going and prevent shrinkage/keep function. If thats not enough I will go to ED on the HCG. Now, if/when I get Excessive Estrogen symptoms (ie Gyno, water bloat) I will start to run Ameridex .25mg ED until the symptoms quit. Right?

For PCT I have Nolva/Clomid and will run it like this:

Week 1 - 3 Nolva 40mg - Clomid 100mg
Week 4 - 6 Nolva 20mg - CLomid 50 mg

This correct? Im foking confused. Help me out

[WARMachine]

OK, so I want to to a Test E/Dbol cycle, and Im still a bit cloudy about some of these PCT Drugs. So let me tell you guys what I think and then you tell me if im correct.

So I will run Test E (12 week) with a Dbol Front load (4-5 week) I will also use HCG from day 1ish @ 250iu EOD to keep the LH signal going and prevent shrinkage/keep function. If thats not enough I will go to ED on the HCG. Now, if/when I get Excessive Estrogen symptoms (ie Gyno, water bloat) I will start to run Ameridex .25mg ED until the symptoms quit. Right?


First off, 250IUs EOD is not needed from day one. Id begin hCG from week 3-4.

Secondly, the point of running an AI throughout the cycle, is to prevent the onset of these side effects from ever happening. However, if one does not run an AI, and these symptoms do arise, only Nolvadex will effectively block the receptors in the breast, preventing the gyno from worsening. Adex cannot do this. So you are left with two options.

1) Run an AI from the beginning of the cycle, thus preventing these side effects.
2) Dont run an AI, and if symptoms arise, use Nolvadex to contain the symptoms.

(*NOTE: THE BEST WAY TO PREVENT SIDES IS A WELL BALANCED LOW SODIUM DIET, AS WELL AS A LOW BF% BEFORE AND DURING THE CYCLE.*)


Not to mention hCG alone gives a 300% rise in test and subsequent aromatisation to estrogen, so gyno prone individuals might want to run nolva with hCG anyway just as a precaution.



For PCT I have Nolva/Clomid and will run it like this:

Week 1 - 3 Nolva 40mg - Clomid 100mg
Week 4 - 6 Nolva 20mg - CLomid 50 mg

This PCT is fine.
This correct? Im foking confused. Help me out

BOLDS

You need to read my sticky as well.


"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916

[SickBastard]

BOLDS

You need to read my sticky as well.


"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916

Honestly bro, I have been reading for weeks now. Soo many people have completely different views on PCT Protocall. The ONLY thing that people seem to agree on are the cycles themself. Different views on HCG, PCT, everything - thus leaving me confused. I do have to tell you, I like your PCT and Swiftos.

So, let me try again.

2) Use an AI if you know youre gyno prone. Now Adex on cycle is the same basic concept as using Letro, the difference being that it doesnt inhibit as much estrogen as Letro. The problem here is finding out the hard way if youre Estrogen Related Side Effect Prone (i say estrogen related side effect, because there are more side effects than just gyno such as, lethargy, suppressed gains, suppressed sex drive, acne, bloating etc..). The only way i know how to see if youre ERSEP is the old fashined way, run a cycle. No sides, no worries! Obviously if you dont follow the first set of rules (above) you'd be best advised to use an AI just in case.

I dont know if Im gyno prone - This is my first cycle. My bf% is relatively low, but Im not sure about it exactly. I eat relatively clean, and im an ecto. So what do you recommend? Doing the cycle and waiting to see if I have any ERSEP's or go ahead and run an AI + Nolva through the cycle?

Ok so,
Week 1-12 Test E @ 500mg/week
Week 1-4 Dbol
Week 1-12 Ameridex @.5mg EOD to control ERSEP's
Week 5-12 HCG @250Iu EOD to prevent Atrophy, and mimic LH Production

Swifto states

My advice is:

Steroid/ProHormone cycle causing HPTA shutdown (HCG may not be needed in cycles below 6 weeks IMHO)

Use HCG 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly. 10-15 days from your final Test shot, ramp your HCG to 250-500ius and ramp you AI slightly. This will cause a spike in endogenous testosterone and aromotase. We then use PCT to restart GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH/FSH from the pituitary. When beginning PCT, switch to another AI also.

Do you agree with this?

So 2 weeks before the last test shot, ramp the AI and HCG slightly. Then Stop HCG about the same time as the Test and let the chemicals clear the system. Roughly 2 weeks after the last test/HCG shot start PCT with Nolva/Clomid and a different AI?? Is that correct?

Also, if I was to use Nolva + AI during cycle for preventative measures, how exactly would I transfer into PCT? What mg's per day????

Im really trying to understand this

[SickBastard]

Ok I think I got it now.

Week 1-12 Test E @ 500 Per week
Week 1-4 Dbol @ 50 Mg Per day
I will start HCG on week 4 or 5 @ 250iu 2-3 time/week
When I start HCG I will go ahead and start A-dex at .25mg EOD (or should I start it from day 1???) Having trouble with this...
Have Nolvadex on hand if ERSEP's dont subside and run it at all the way through PCT @ 40mg/day. Correct?
Week 14 (2 weeks after last test shot and last HCG shot) Start Clomid @ 100mg ED for 3 weeks and then 50mg ED for 3 more weeks.

Thats it right?

Btw, 5' 10" 180 lbs, 2 years ago I was 140lbs. 25 years old. bf unknown, 10-12% estimated.

[WARMachine]

That looks good!

Since this is your first cycle, id suggest not running an AI from the beginning at this point. However, keep EXTRA Nolvadex on hand just in case these ERSEs due happen to occur.

Just make sure to keep a low sodium diet, and get your BF% as low as possible before starting.

Otherwise, i would just lower the Clomid to 50mgs after week 2.

Other than that, looks great to me!

[SickBastard]

Thank god...

So, just start the AI when I start HCG and run the AI until the day PCT Starts. When I start PCT, then I stop the AI, And if ERSE's occur, then its Nolva 40mg a day all the way through PCT non stop. And Clomid 50 mgs after week 2 of PCT.

This is some complicated shit.

[Swifto]

Thank god...

So, just start the AI when I start HCG and run the AI until the day PCT Starts. When I start PCT, then I stop the AI, And if ERSE's occur, then its Nolva 40mg a day all the way through PCT non stop. And Clomid 50 mgs after week 2 of PCT.

This is some complicated shit.

It looks complicated, but the more you read it the more you'll understand.

You dont need an AI (to lower estrogen) if you have already controlled estrogen (using an AI when "on") during your cycle.

Clomid 50/50/25/25/25
Tamox 20/20/20/20