Overtraining

[flyguy7]

Hey all- I'm looking to get some opinions on training, and when a program is too much. I'm starting a new bulk in about a week, and previously I'd always read that you should never lift more than an hour and half. Recently, however, I've seen plenty of people on these boards posting workouts of only an hour, and some HOFer have said they're out in about 45m. Honestly, a lot of my lifts go over the hour and half mark, and make their way to 2h. Also I see alot of people don't advocate going to failure on every set. Honestly, I'm fine with going into the gym, working out for 1h to 1.5h, and just focusing on warmup sets and then one final set to failure for each exercise, but I feel like I'll leave the gym with plenty of energy left. Why are higher volume lifts so bad, especially if my body is able to take the stress? Shouldn't I be drained when leaving the gym? Thanks for any help

[JinNtonic]

If you leave the gym "with plenty of energy left". Then maybe you should take a look at your intensity level.

[Yergg]

my workouts are about 45 minutes long. Im waisted after. Im definetely hurtin afterwords. I believe jin may be right.

[eatrainrest]

2 hours of lifting is just too much. im about 1 hour workouts nd half hour cardio. why dont you post up your workout with how many sets per body part so we could tell you.. overtraining is relative.. overtraining is obvious in some cases and not in others.. sometimes if you drop the sets in half you just gain like crazy...

[flyguy7]

I figured I would get plenty of "up your intensity" comments, but really, I go to failure on a lot of these sets, and even throw in some supersetting (though I know I shouldn't). Today for example I did chest/shoulders.
flat bar bench 3 sets of 6
Incline db- 3x10
machine fly- 3x10
flat bench db- 3x12 supersetted each with machine incline until I couldn't do anymore.
Bar upright row -3x8
lateral raise db- 3x10
military press (with light weight, have a permanently iffy shoulder)-2x12

I'm gonna start trying to add some mass soon, like I said, and most of these sets will move into the 6 to 8 rep range. So not including warmups that's a 20 set workout- 12 sets devoted to chest. That lift definitely takes me an hour and a half, and I go to failure on most of the exercises save the flat bar bench and upright rows

[Noles12]

That workout takes you two hours?

[Orlando Rocket]

If you have energy when you leave the gym try doing 2 warmup sets then follow with a few drop sets 3 to 4 exercises per muscle, it's intense. I'm wasted after drop sets, love em and feel like I could fall over after an hour of this.

[eatrainrest]

id drop chest sets in half for 3 weeks and kcik up the intensity to 100 (to failure) every set go 4 reps max on first 2 sets of all compound movements and 12 reps on the last set. and that alone will jack up your chest strength

[xnotoriousx]

I would say stay away from the drop sets, super sets are good though and have a place in your routine.

super set = going from one exercise to the next, like bench press, then bb rows

Drop set = taking weight off after you reached failure and then you continue to do more. Bad for your joints and only hurts you.





You really need to keep in mind that alot of the people here work low volume high intensity workouts, it's what works for MOST of the people here, however, you may be different. Watch your body and see how it responds. I like to keep my workouts at 12 sets but I always end up doing 14-15 that's the range where I feel works best.

[flyguy7]

notorious you made a good point saying everyone's different, and honestly I only started doing the higher volume thing because I know a dude who I look up to getting great results from it. Why are drop sets more damaging than supersets exactly?

Thanks for the tips, and I'll definitely try upping the weight/intensity and see if I can get to the fatigued point with fewer sets-- eattrainrest I'd never heard of that technique before, but i'll give it a shot

[Tigershark]

An hour on the weights should be plenty. 2 hours is definately over training.

[eatrainrest]

notorious you made a good point saying everyone's different, and honestly I only started doing the higher volume thing because I know a dude who I look up to getting great results from it. Why are drop sets more damaging than supersets exactly?

Thanks for the tips, and I'll definitely try upping the weight/intensity and see if I can get to the fatigued point with fewer sets-- eattrainrest I'd never heard of that technique before, but i'll give it a shot

its the secret

and drop sets are very strenuous on the joints/tendons and can actually lead to overtraining the muscle tissue, injuries, CNS burnout, etc. i do not recommend drop sets ever.

[ninesecz]

ou are resting too long between sets thats why you are leaving the gym with so much energy! no more than 1.5min between sets! this gives your body just enough time to recover from the last set before hitting it again! No sitting there waiting 5 minutes to do your next set! It is just a waste of time!! and so you know, Even the pro;s only spen about an hour per bodypart! Hell Ronnie Coleman does chest in 15minutes!! 3 sets of flat 3 of incline 3 of decline and thats a wrap!!

[xnotoriousx]

when you get as big as them, you can't do to much, it's crucial.

The rest times could be your problem to man, if you're taking a avg of 3 minutes before you get back down and rip another set then that very well may be the problem. Try counting out your rest times or take a timer with you and see how it goes.

[eatrainrest]

ou are resting too long between sets thats why you are leaving the gym with so much energy! no more than 1.5min between sets! this gives your body just enough time to recover from the last set before hitting it again! No sitting there waiting 5 minutes to do your next set! It is just a waste of time!! and so you know, Even the pro;s only spen about an hour per bodypart! Hell Ronnie Coleman does chest in 15minutes!! 3 sets of flat 3 of incline 3 of decline and thats a wrap!!

well, rest time all depends on goals, and RECOVERY HR... which will vary dependant on the shape of the invididual... to not confuse you.. if your goal is to gain some size... jack it up to 1:30-2:00

[flyguy7]

I do actually usually rest for about 3 minutes, simply because this is how I was always trained. Why is less time better necessarily, what do most of you rest for between sets?

[eatrainrest]

3 minutes is too long IMO... you burn nmore calories with less time unless you are maxing out i would never exceed 2minutes.

[kaptainkeezy04]

If you leave the gym "with plenty of energy left". Then maybe you should take a look at your intensity level.

Right on! I remember these one kids chattin' up a storm in the gym, talking about how they could never get sore, and I remember thinking that if they quit their yappin', and lifted some weights they might get sore. The truth is that different people respond to different regimens. Dorian Yates was in the gym for 45 minutes at the most, and went past failure on every single set. Then, you watch Jay Cutler workout, and he is in the gym for about 2 hours, and a high volume of sets is what works best for him. I know that if I am in the gym for longer than an hour, I am overdoing it, or not training with enough intensity, because my body responds best to high intensity workouts with low volume, but failure on almost every set. Keep in mind, though, that Dorian, and Jay, are/were on a lot of steroids, and this enables them to fail every set, or be in the gym for 2 hours.

[kaptainkeezy04]

I do actually usually rest for about 3 minutes, simply because this is how I was always trained. Why is less time better necessarily, what do most of you rest for between sets?

you have to switch it up, because the human body is the most adaptive organism. for 2 months, i stay in the 6-8 rep range and get about a minute to a minute and a half of rest between sets. then, the next 2 months i stay in the 8-12 rep range, and rest for a minute at the most between sets. and finally, the next 2 months, i stay in the 4-6 rep range, and rest 2 minutes in between sets. After each two month period, I like to give my body a week of rest. If you keep doing the same amount of sets, reps, and rest time, eventually your gains will halt, and some feel that you will go backwards in gains.

[xnotoriousx]

I do actually usually rest for about 3 minutes, simply because this is how I was always trained. Why is less time better necessarily, what do most of you rest for between sets?

On your serious lifts(deadlift, squats) 3 minutes should be about perfect because they require so much.

I'm almost certain that rest times are your problem. Next session you do, go in the gym and don't think about anything but 1- 1.5 minute rest times and do your entire session without exceeding it and come back and tell us how it went. Also keep that last set on failure in the 6-8 rep range. Good luck my friend!

[Yergg]

My workouts are about 45 min. Usually 15 sets of no less than 8 reps per. The only thing that really changes are the exercises themselves. Example:
chest week 1
5 sets dumbell presses
5 sets barbell presses
5 sets dumbell flys

chest week 2
5 sets incline dumbell presses
5 sets incline barbell presses
5 sets incline dumbell flys

Many people might not like this workout but it really works for me.

I do play around with reps and am always changing weight and rep speed. You just really need to shock your body.. I always train intensly..

[flyguy7]

well I went in today for my back workout with a new outlook. I focused on resting for only 1.5 to 2 minutes, and managed to wrap the whole thing in a bit under an hour.
deadlift 3 sets
pulldown 3 sets (don't have weighted belt yet for pullups)
t-bar row 3 sets
triangle pulldown 3 sets
db row 3 sets

I tried to keep the intensity up the whole time. I started out well by doing what people were saying and only going to max at the last set of the exercise, but then once I got past tbar rows i just started going to failure nearly ever set. I was pretty gassed though when I left, so it worked better than I thought. Definitely felt like I was getting more of a cardio workout than with the increased rest I was doing before-- I was sweating a lot more and generally felt heated. This short rest thing is going to be absolutely awful on leg day, but I liked what I felt today, thanks again brothers

[YoungGunsNY]

what about rest periods for harder/heavier workouts - deads, squats, leg press, hack squats, HEAVY shrugs & what about for last sets training for failure/past failure reps? 1.5 min rest for legs man? yikes...

[flyguy7]

what about rest periods for harder/heavier workouts - deads, squats, leg press, hack squats, HEAVY shrugs & what about for last sets training for failure/past failure reps? 1.5 min rest for legs man? yikes...

I know I felt the same way brother, but I went in for my leg workout today and still tried to keep the rest short-- it wasn't 1.5 though, more like 2 to 2.5. It was pretty much continuous hell though, but I got through, and again it only took around 50 minutes. for workout critics:
squat 3x6
leg press 3x12
hack squat 3x12
straight leg deadlift 3x8
leg curls 2x10
I didn't get that sore doing my back workout with the shorter rest, but I'm pretty sure i'll be feeling it in my legs for the next couple of days