50# of muscle in 1 year!! The Importance of Testosterone!!

[ninesecz]

This started March 1, 2009 Thats when I started training hard again, I got clipped and was 19.4%BF @ 238# Soon after that is when I got put on TRT adn I actually upped my dose from 100 to 200mg of cyp. every week just because I figure I will end up there eventually anyway. I want to make sure my levels are low enough for that to happen so I will not take an injection for the next 2 weeks so I figured today was as good a day as any to get checked again. Got clipped today I was 15.8%BF @261# !! Even with some water weight that is still a good 18-20# of muscle just since March 1! I figure I will gain at least another 15-25 # over the course of my 12-16 week Test Cyp 500mg EW Cycle. That cycle will be over by the end of November. Even with a 15# gain over the course of that cycle that still puts me at 35# of muscle with a minimum of 4 months to add another 5-10#!! So that;s it! I figure anywhere from 35-50# of muscle i the coarse of a year! Not to bad of gains for 12 months if you ask me!
Just figured there are some people out there who are unsure of the importance of testosterone! well just a low 200mg a week can make all the difference if you do not naturally have any!

[gymnerd]

Ohh yeah if you have crashed T levels your just not going to put on any muscle. 200mg a wk must feel nice after that.

[ninesecz]

Ohh yeah if you have crashed T levels your just not going to put on any muscle. 200mg a wk must feel nice after that.

Yes it does trained for almost 3 months before I got on TRT and thats how I actually finally made them check me! I did not gain 1 ounce of strength and actually was doing an hr+ of cardio 6 days a week for 6 weeks and did not lose 1# of fat or drop a 1/10% of BF I was almost ready to just give up then that test results came back now its all good!!

[strength_addict14]

Good for you man. Science is a beautiful thing.

[Immortal Soldier]

I always have to explain this too people, you don't just gain muscle, muscle comes with 2 key ingredients to help it thrive and survive.

You won't gain 50lbs of muscle in a year that is impossible. That would mean you would have gained 80lbs total+ let me explain why.

If you gain 20lbs on your cycle, around 12-13 of that might be pure LBM (lean body muscle) accompanying the new made muscle is glycogen. Glycogen is used to "feed" the muscle during times of fasting and when it needs energy to rebuild. Along with that comes water weight (not the type that bloats you) to hydrate the muscle and supply it with ample oxygen.

This is why you will see a bodybuilder like Trey Brewer who on stage is 250-255 and in the offseason is 310. That is because during shows they have NO GLYCOGEN and BARELY any water in their muscles. So when they go back to dieting they gain the glycogen back and water.

When your muscles look "flat" sometimes that is a sign of glycogen depletion when the body doesnt get enough carbs or other forms of energy it eats up the glycogen, it takes around 24 hours to restore glycogen.

Now you can see why it would be impossible to gain 50lbs of LBM in a year because in reality that would mean you gained 80lbs. It is possible to gain 50lbs in one year (I have done it before) but not 50lbs of LBM that is laughable.

[FireGuy]

I always have to explain this too people, you don't just gain muscle, muscle comes with 2 key ingredients to help it thrive and survive.

You won't gain 50lbs of muscle in a year that is impossible. That would mean you would have gained 80lbs total+ let me explain why.

If you gain 20lbs on your cycle, around 12-13 of that might be pure LBM (lean body muscle) accompanying the new made muscle is glycogen. Glycogen is used to "feed" the muscle during times of fasting and when it needs energy to rebuild. Along with that comes water weight (not the type that bloats you) to hydrate the muscle and supply it with ample oxygen.

This is why you will see a bodybuilder like Trey Brewer who on stage is 250-255 and in the offseason is 310. That is because during shows they have NO GLYCOGEN and BARELY any water in their muscles. So when they go back to dieting they gain the glycogen back and water.

When your muscles look "flat" sometimes that is a sign of glycogen depletion when the body doesnt get enough carbs or other forms of energy it eats up the glycogen, it takes around 24 hours to restore glycogen.

Now you can see why it would be impossible to gain 50lbs of LBM in a year because in reality that would mean you gained 80lbs. It is possible to gain 50lbs in one year (I have done it before) but not 50lbs of LBM that is laughable.

This whole statement is so flawed in theory I dont even know where to begin. Being muscle is comprised of about 72% water you cant discount it as being water weight. If thats your way of reasoning a person with 200 lbs of lean only really has 56 lbs of muscle.

And Trew Brewer is 310 in the off season cause he's FAT. Dropping water and carb depleting will drop a significant amount of weight the last week before a show but dont forget. Many of these guys weigh in friday night for a saturday show. This gives them a chance to carb back up. You have middleweights (176lb limit) on stage at over 180 all the time. My point being, when Trey Brewer is onstage his muscles are loaded with glycogen.

[Someguy123]

So that;s it! I figure anywhere from 35-50# of muscle i the coarse of a year! Not to bad of gains for 12 months if you ask me!

not bad?? 50 pounds of lean gain in a year would be phenomenal, and unheard of in most cases. and would really only be possible, from being on test all year long. but in any sense, congradulations!! the gains you have made already are pretty good. just try not to get discouraged, if the gains slow down. as life would have it, thats what usually happens.

[Immortal Soldier]

This whole statement is so flawed in theory I dont even know where to begin. Being muscle is comprised of about 72% water you cant discount it as being water weight. If thats your way of reasoning a person with 200 lbs of lean only really has 56 lbs of muscle.

I don't discount it as being water weight, I never said that most of what you gain is water weight, I said a small amount is

And Trew Brewer is 310 in the off season cause he's FATTrue he was pretty puffy at 310, but like I said that was on example I was using, I wasn't trying to say he gains 50lbs of glycogen and water weight when after competition. Dropping water and carb depleting will drop a significant amount of weight the last week before a show but dont forget. Many of these guys weigh in friday night for a saturday show. This gives them a chance to carb back up. You have middleweights (176lb limit) on stage at over 180 all the time. My point being, when Trey Brewer is onstage his muscles are loaded with glycogen. I disagree with you here Trey Brewer on stage is not loaded with glycogen. 4-5lbs is not "loaded" for a 176lb person. I lose 4-5lbs when I get sick for 3-4 days. One of the reasons I dont agree is because glycogen can interfere with appearance in some cases. Most of what you see on stage is the use of "pumps", I mean I have watched videos of Dexter and Jay going to Mr. Olympia (the one where Dexter won) talking about how they feel like **** and how they wanted to throw up from dehydration and how tired they were from having no carbs in their system. As for my theory, its not a theory I can tell you that, I dont doubt I didnt explain it properly but I remember reading several articles on this. If you were able to gain 50lbs of LBM in one year you would be Ronnie in no time. I have books that give estimates on how much muscle you can build per year at what age for every year you continue lifting and it decreases as you get older and the amounts are low (take into account this is from a natural standpoint)

My response old chap

[ninesecz]

I always have to explain this too people, you don't just gain muscle, muscle comes with 2 key ingredients to help it thrive and survive.

You won't gain 50lbs of muscle in a year that is impossible. That would mean you would have gained 80lbs total+ let me explain why.

If you gain 20lbs on your cycle, around 12-13 of that might be pure LBM (lean body muscle) accompanying the new made muscle is glycogen. Glycogen is used to "feed" the muscle during times of fasting and when it needs energy to rebuild. Along with that comes water weight (not the type that bloats you) to hydrate the muscle and supply it with ample oxygen.

This is why you will see a bodybuilder like Trey Brewer who on stage is 250-255 and in the offseason is 310. That is because during shows they have NO GLYCOGEN and BARELY any water in their muscles. So when they go back to dieting they gain the glycogen back and water.

When your muscles look "flat" sometimes that is a sign of glycogen depletion when the body doesnt get enough carbs or other forms of energy it eats up the glycogen, it takes around 24 hours to restore glycogen.

Now you can see why it would be impossible to gain 50lbs of LBM in a year because in reality that would mean you gained 80lbs. It is possible to gain 50lbs in one year (I have done it before) but not 50lbs of LBM that is laughable.

I do not know what you want to call it then! I have had my BF checked I have added the amount of size to my muscles to justify the gains and I do not know how else to put it! I know 2-3 bodybuilders that have do ne it in a year! Jeremay Freeman being one when he was suppose to be using Anator p-71 He put on almost 50# in 11 months and he was completey ****** so if it was not muscle it must have been something I know nothing about! And you can gain 0.5-2# of lean muscle every week! So in theory yes you could gain 50# of muscle in a year! I know the weight I just put on (almost 20# ) is pure muscle!! I have been lifting for years and know what I looked like when I used to be this heavy years ago before I screwed up my Test Levels. So with muscle memory and already having that muscle at one time I believe it came back to me easier than building totaly new muscle. And I said 35# up to 50# for the year! I know for a fact I can put another 15# of LBM on over the course of 16 weeks of test! and knowing I do not have to come off except for going back to my 200mg cruising dose, I will keep 85% of that
Maybe I am crazy but to someone like me who has a lot of genetic potential left and have not been hittin it hard for a few years and making sure diet and cycle are perfect this time, I think it will be very possible to put that 35+# on this year!! not saying I will ever be able to replicate these results down the road but for a person who has had a very big build I do not think it is going to be "impossible"

[FireGuy]

My response old chap

I am not saying I agree that he put on 50lbs of muscle. In fact, I rather doubt it. My point was, if a guy puts on 50lbs in a year without gaining any fat then its counted as muscle. Remember, water weight is lean mass.

[FireGuy]

You also stated it takes 24 hours to restore glycogen levels but you dont think 2-3 days of carbing up has these guys on stage full of glycogen? Water depleted..yes. glycogen depleted...not if they know what they are doing. After prejudging...Hell Yes, glycogen depleted. If you ever go through a tough prejuding you will know what I am speaking about.

[Immortal Soldier]

I do not know what you want to call it then! I have had my BF checked I have added the amount of size to my muscles to justify the gains and I do not know how else to put it! I know 2-3 bodybuilders that have do ne it in a year! Bodybuilders dont just use steroids and I agree with the statement here that they can put on alot of muscle on, Dexter Jackson being one of them during the Arnold Classic he was weighing I think 220-225 and during Mr. Olympia (the one he won) he was weighing in at 245-250 and that was a 6 month difference. But like I said you aren't running what they are running Jeremay Freeman being one when he was suppose to be using Anator p-71 He put on almost 50# in 11 months and he was completey ****** so if it was not muscle it must have been something I know nothing about! And you can gain 0.5-2# of lean muscle every week! The actual number is you can gain .25-.5 LBM per week (naturally) which comes out to 1-2lbs per month which comes out to 12-24lbs per year (again naturally no steroids/prohormones/insulin) So in theory yes you could gain 50# of muscle in a year! I know the weight I just put on (almost 20# ) is pure muscle20lbs of LBM is possible I never dobuted that, I have done that before as well. 50lbs of LBM is another story altogther!! I have been lifting for years and know what I looked like when I used to be this heavy years ago before I screwed up my Test Levels. So with muscle memory and already having that muscle at one time I believe it came back to me easier than building totaly new muscle.Ok I see so its basically you are getting n00b gains, in the beginning you are gaining alot of weight because your body has not worked out in a long time similar to n00b gains And I said 35# up to 50# for the year! I know for a fact I can put another 15# of LBM on over the course of 16 weeks of test! and knowing I do not have to come off except for going back to my 200mg cruising dose, I will keep 85% of that
Maybe I am crazy but to someone like me who has a lot of genetic potential left and have not been hittin it hard for a few years and making sure diet and cycle are perfect this time, I think it will be very possible to put that 35+# on this year!! I never doubted you couldn't gain 35lbs, hell I gained 25lbs on my last cycle and I was getting LEANER too, my argument was 50lbs of pure LBM in one year is IMHO a huge stretch not saying I will ever be able to replicate these results down the road but for a person who has had a very big build I do not think it is going to be "impossible"

Hope this clarifies things a bit and you understand my stance better.

[FireGuy]

To the OP, if you are going to make this kind of claim you better have before and after pics to back up your statement.

[FireGuy]

Hope this clarifies things a bit and you understand my stance better.

Had you made the bolded statements in your initial response I wouldnt have disagreed with anything you said BTW.

[Immortal Soldier]

I am not saying I agree that he put on 50lbs of muscle. In fact, I rather doubt it. My point was, if a guy puts on 50lbs in a year without gaining any fat then its counted as muscle. Remember, water weight is lean mass.

Ok I see what your saying, yeah well thats where the mix up occured. I wasn't counting water weight as lean mass.

You also stated it takes 24 hours to restore glycogen levels but you dont think 2-3 days of carbing up has these guys on stage full of glycogen? Water depleted..yes. glycogen depleted...not if they know what they are doing. After prejudging...Hell Yes, glycogen depleted. If you ever go through a tough prejuding you will know what I am speaking about.

The part where I said it takes 24 hours for glycogen levels to restore applies to the person who is working out and eating 6 meals a day. It does apply to the person who has been cutting and on a carb restriction for the past 4-5 months. Because for the average lifter going to sleep waking up and going through the day their glycogen levels get depleted just from everyday life and it takes 24 hours to restore that. Now if you are cutting and on a carb complete reduction along with fat the same time frame doesn't apply to you.Now I know you in this area know more about me since you compete and go through that process, but what I am saying is a day or two is not enough to make up for 4-5 months of strict dieting yes if you do do that you will gain some glycogen because the body is depleated but that doesnt make you "loaded".

Speaking from a IFBB standpoint and from what I saw in the videos and Jay and Dexter talking while they were driving to the competition neither of them sounded like they were loaded up on glycogen because they were talking about how tired they were and how cutting is always so hard to get to this point etc. etc.. Like I said I could be wrong, but from what I have seen this is what I am saying.

[Immortal Soldier]

Had you made the bolded statements in your initial response I wouldnt have disagreed with anything you said BTW.

LOL Its 12 o'clock I am tired I told you I didnt explain it as best I could have. I usually dont write long posts takes too much time and effort and making sure everything is right and double checking

[ninesecz]

I do not post pics till I am done!! There are too many people out here that dont know what they are doing and call you fat because you have water weight and things like that!
I will have photos taken every 2 weeks but only from starting 2 weeks ago! Did not think about taking them in the very beginning! When I am done with this cycle I will post the 1 month before cycle, the beginning of cycle, some pics during and then pics at the end. then 3 months after that I will also post pics of my final look where I will end up being around 9-11% BF! I usually dont go any lower than that unless I have to! I have a hot broad already and do not need to be chiseled and ******. as ling as I have a 33-34" waist and can easily see my abs I am happy! But until then sory no photos, I have no reason to lie so at the end I will show. I find it hard that no one here can honestly say they ave 30-40# of lean mass in 12 months time! It does not seem like very much if you did a seroius cycle and had a spot on diet I think there is a few genetically gifted people that could put on 7.5# of muscle in 3 months thats only 2 pounds a month! not that much even top pros put on 8-12# a year even with their size

[The Deuce]

I bet from the time I was put on TRT (FEB -09) that by February 14th,2010 exactly the day I started TRT by 365 days... That I would have put on 35-50lbs of Lean Body Mass..

WOULDNT THIS CALCULATE LIKE THIS... IM DROPPING BF... AND ADDING MUSCLE...

So far, from 215 24% BF to 227 15.9 % BF So while that was only a technical 12lb. gain haven't I really gained like 25lbs. or something close to that already?? CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.. I think I remember, when I did my BF% Calculation when I first started my TRT and I was like A lean body weight of 165lbs.. and now when I use the calculation I am 193lbs. of Lean Body Mass... so yah ... a GAIN of 28lbs... about 5 months in... SEE WHAT I AM SAYING??

I think I am explaining this right... I think it's achievable.. I mean I have already almost hit the 35lb mark and I aint stopping now.. the diet is just NOW getting DIALED in... My training is picking up.. I plan on another cycle within the next 7 months and I just honestly think I will be able to accomplish it... A gain in LEAN BODY MASS.. is correct me if I am wrong please.. but GAINS IN MUSCLE...

And I know Ninesecz is saying the same exact thing that I am saying...


Look at that way Immortal and see if thats incorrect thinking... **I just re read it and it kinda sounds like I am coming off like being a d1ck and I AM REALLY not intending it that way so please dont think that way... just look at what I have to say and analyze and tell me if I am wrong or not... Thanks bro **

[The Deuce]

OH AND TRUST ME ILL HAVE BEFORE AND AFTER PICS ALSO !! HEY NINE...WE GON HAVE FUN WITH THIS ONE BRO !!


Wanna race? lol

[ninesecz]

Just read your above statement and I see where you are coming from! Yeh it is kingd of like Iam oing to get NOOB results for the 1st year! it has been a good 3 years since I have seriously trained so I still had a lot of the mass and had to just return it to its original state (muscle) Yeh I know 50# is a stretch but it is wishful thinking! I am fairly certain I can capture 35# in the year! As I said I already have gaine 15-30# and have not really hit the cycle yet! I hope you are wrong and I get great gains cause i am 34 and I am going to start dropping down the other side of the peak next year so it is kind of "now or never" for me right now!

[ninesecz]

oh and trust me ill have before and after pics also !! Hey nine...we gon have fun with this one bro !!


Wanna race? Lol

yeh boy!!

[Immortal Soldier]

Just read your above statement and I see where you are coming from! Yeh it is kingd of like Iam oing to get NOOB results for the 1st year! it has been a good 3 years since I have seriously trained so I still had a lot of the mass and had to just return it to its original state (muscle) Yeh I know 50# is a stretch but it is wishful thinking! I am fairly certain I can capture 35# in the year! As I said I already have gaine 15-30# and have not really hit the cycle yet! I hope you are wrong and I get great gains cause i am 34 and I am going to start dropping down the other side of the peak next year so it is kind of "now or never" for me right now!

35lbs is possible never argued that (I mean I have gained 30lbs since dec. after going through some family issues and not being able to workout for 5 months), like I said my whole argument was on the 50lbs of LBM.

As for what Duece said, my response is the same as above, I was never arguing that its impossible to gain 25-30lbs and in response to what duece said he was at one point a pretty muscular guy and basically he is getting it all back someone else in your position Duece starting at your weight and stats wouldnt be able to drop down and gains nearly as much you did in the same time frame because of the fact your body still has muscle memory and you did at one point already reach that peak you are trying to get back to.

It's one thing to be working from scratch and another to be getting back to where you were and gain on top of that (which is what I did). My whole argument was based on the former (starting from scratch)

[ninesecz]

I ear ya Immortal! Yeh should have explained myself better in the first post! I will keep everyone updated as the time goes on!

[The Deuce]

I SEE... no i really see now.. thats awesome.. i love when things get solved !! Make me wanna

lol

And dont think your off the Hook Nine.. I am your motivator... we are racing... it will add a lil bit of extra fun in the gym kinda like a competition... FRIENDLY!! But a Comp nonetheless with a fellow brotha from the board... May the best man win !! Oh oh oh.. we can even collaborate a POLL together with before and after Pics.. lol... And the bros can vote !! to see who won... lol..come on itlll be fun.. whhadya say ? !!

[ninesecz]

I said hell ya! So lets say the ending date of this little experiment is when?? You pick it and let me kniow Just give yourself a few extra weeks to shape up in case you need it toward the end! JK LOL!!

Lets get ready to rumbleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

[rogue01]

So far, from 215 24% BF to 227 15.9 % BF So while that was only a technical 12lb. gain haven't I really gained like 25lbs. or something close to that already?? CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.. I think I remember, when I did my BF% Calculation when I first started my TRT and I was like A lean body weight of 165lbs.. and now when I use the calculation I am 193lbs. of Lean Body Mass... so yah ... a GAIN of 28lbs... about 5 months in... SEE WHAT I AM SAYING??
:

Just wondering, what is your cruise and blast dosages?

[illwillogical]

Just wondering, what is your cruise and blast dosages?

I would definitely, definitely take that guys advice with a grain of salt. I see that you are new here. I would only take advice from a few of the vets, mods whatever you want to call them, Big is a good one that is not a poser.

[johndoe2u]

nine,

(bare with me as im new to this forum) TRT= testosterone replacement therapy right? did your test levels drop do to use of gear, or was it natural? and how old are you if you dont mind me asking? and is the cyp your taking prescribed, by a dr.?