Massive gains

[skyhigh]

Hello All:

I have been absent for quite a while and I have a question that some will find a little ridiculous.

Everywhere that I read states people gain and loose with on/off cycle. Some people say that you are lucky to gain and keep much muscle gained from a cycle even with PCT. Others say 50-85%....and on and on it goes. I understand that it varies from person to person and a lot depends on diet and training dedication PCT.

BUT

Although a novice (just completed my second cycle although training for about 20 years) Do the BIG STRONG (powerlifters) guys keep most of the muscle and strength when off cycle or do they really go "off". (Feel free to chime in BIG and STRONG alike)

Cheers

S.H.

[.EA.]

Hello All:

I have been absent for quite a while and I have a question that some will find a little ridiculous.

Everywhere that I read states people gain and loose with on/off cycle. Some people say that you are lucky to gain and keep much muscle gained from a cycle even with PCT. Others say 50-85%....and on and on it goes. I understand that it varies from person to person and a lot depends on diet and training dedication PCT.

BUT

Although a novice (just completed my second cycle although training for about 20 years) Do the BIG STRONG (powerlifters) guys keep most of the muscle and strength when off cycle or do they really go "off". (Feel free to chime in BIG and STRONG alike)

Cheers

S.H.

Because of the amount they run, they can never truly get "off". If Jay Cutler for instance came off, he would start losing weight FAST. You need a certain amount of Testosterone to maintain muscle mass.

[El Corvino]

^^^ so they are just on a life time of weekly injections?

[manwitplans]

^^ More like daily, but yes

[El Corvino]

damn... serious business

[elpropiotorvic]

They prob have needles for breakfast

[alpmaster]

X amount of testosterone = X amount of muscle

That equation stays true for the animal kingdom, including us. These guys are waaay beyond human potential, so just to keep what they have they need waaaay beyond what we would ever produce.

[hankdiesel]

^^ More like daily, but yes

When cruising they would not need daily injections. This is an ignorant statement.

[skyhigh]

I get that Cutler and the like would start diminishing fast... ... Those guys are freaks though to begin with I think....


Basically I am checking to see if it fair to expect the old three steps forward, two steps back time and time again and eventually you would see a permanent increase in lean mass of say 20-30 lbs after three or four years of cycles?

I don't know what my genetic limit is but I ma pretty sure I was at least close before I started.....

Also, Is it true or Bull that the gains made from HGH are "permanent"?

Thanks Guys,

S.H.

[skeldno]

I know a guy that was on for years not sure if constant or cycling but he aint lifted for 2-3 years and in school he was tiny he is huge and has not gone bk to his genetic size yet even tho he takes loads of drugs.

[chuckt12345]

eventually your gonna lose most of your gains when you stay off (diet being consistant)

[powerliftmike]

Also, Is it true or Bull that the gains made from HGH are "permanent"?

Thanks Guys,

S.H.

Well actually no gains are permanent. you can get some bad illness tomorrow or a bad car wreck today and be in a hospital for a while and loose everything! it can happen to anyone at anytime is the cold hard truth. if you stop training and have a piss poor diet gains will slowly go away as well.

[Aodha]

I disagree for the most part with the bulk of what you're all saying. My brother in law use to juice maybe 5 years ago. He only did a handful of cycles nothing serious. He got up to 220 from 160ish. Again it's been 5 years since his last cycle for SURE and he still close to 190. He'll never be anywhere near 160 ever again. And no, he doesn't lift hard he just runs and goes to the gym once in a while. I have no idea why but his body is just keeping the muscle on. He's prob around 15-20% bf. He was a natural hardgainer too. But now he doesn't have to worry about it.

[chuckt12345]

I disagree for the most part with the bulk of what you're all saying. My brother in law use to juice maybe 5 years ago. He only did a handful of cycles nothing serious. He got up to 220 from 160ish. Again it's been 5 years since his last cycle for SURE and he still close to 190. He'll never be anywhere near 160 ever again. And no, he doesn't lift hard he just runs and goes to the gym once in a while. I have no idea why but his body is just keeping the muscle on. He's prob around 15-20% bf. He was a natural hardgainer too. But now he doesn't have to worry about it.

How old was he?

[Aodha]

^^^^ as of now he's 29. So he was in his early twenties when he was juicin.

[Hazard]

I disagree for the most part with the bulk of what you're all saying. My brother in law use to juice maybe 5 years ago. He only did a handful of cycles nothing serious. He got up to 220 from 160ish. Again it's been 5 years since his last cycle for SURE and he still close to 190. He'll never be anywhere near 160 ever again. And no, he doesn't lift hard he just runs and goes to the gym once in a while. I have no idea why but his body is just keeping the muscle on. He's prob around 15-20% bf. He was a natural hardgainer too. But now he doesn't have to worry about it.

Thats because he probably wasnt at his maximum potential..... how tall is he? If you are 6'0 and 165..... you could run a couple cycles.... get up to 200 and maintain it no problem..... but if you are 6'0 and 230 - run a couple cycles.... get up to 260..... it's going to be damned hard to maintain 260 without gear LOL

~Haz~

[powerliftmike]

Thats because he probably wasnt at his maximum potential..... how tall is he? If you are 6'0 and 165..... you could run a couple cycles.... get up to 200 and maintain it no problem..... but if you are 6'0 and 230 - run a couple cycles.... get up to 260..... it's going to be damned hard to maintain 260 without gear LOL

~Haz~

exactly.

my point above was that there is no thing as a permanent muscle. that is different than having a baseline maintainable rate. someone that has never done anything but computer games their whole life still has some muscle that he maintains by clicking the mouse, etc.

but maintenance becomes more and more difficult the farther you are from base levels. and maintenance will eventually have to include exogenous test at some point.

[Aodha]

Huh. Yeah that makes total sense. He's only 5'10" but I'm sure he's just livin within his potential now.

[gunslinger2]

My wife's Uncle used to play pro foot ball. Before he did he was about 210 lbs. and maybe 13-15% BF. He got up to about 240 and made the team. When he stopped playing , stopped taking gear and moved back to his home town he was about 265 and maybe 7-8% BF and looked like he could have competed in a national level BB competition. He freely admitted to taking massive amounts of gear for years.

Now, about 10-12 years later he walks around at 230 pounds and maybe 12-13% BF and still benching 405 for reps.

[trulbfan3]

w/ a good pct and if you realize you have to increase your protien carbs and fats to support your new muscle u put on then yeah i say u can keep a good bit of what you put on