F**ked up a little, need help to minimize damage.

[Dumbass]

Well here's the case. I got "hooked" and now I've been on for about 20 weeks, and I didn't do what your always supposed to - stick to the plan.

So that's what I need, a plan. I just stopped Tren a (400 mg EW), and I'm atm only on 500 mg test P. Normaly this would be pretty simple, do some HCG/adex, get off, take some nolva/clomid etc and say my prayers.

But heres the case, I'm about 3 weeks in with HGH and Slin added. HGH costs ridicolously much here, and to be honest I'd rather deal with a little longer recovery than wasting synergy with HGH.

I got 250 IU left of HGH. Steroids/slin is unlimited.

I get pretty bad sides from estrogen. I'm on nolva (60mg) and adex (1mg) atm also to fight some gyno. Orals are out of the question. I would prefer not to run more tren this cycle. I'm thinking of either cruising 4 weeks, do 4 heavy weeks and then PCT, or just get off asap, and back on after 6 weeks of agressive PCT. Only problem is that I realy need my sexdrive the next weeks.

And please, don't flame me for this, I know I should have done things differently.

[Dumbass]

Tempting alternative is to lower test to 300-ish mg and add 100 mg NPP ED.

[TITANIUM]

Well here's the case. I got "hooked" and now I've been on for about 20 weeks, and I didn't do what your always supposed to - stick to the plan.

So that's what I need, a plan. I just stopped Tren a (400 mg EW), and I'm atm only on 500 mg test P. Normaly this would be pretty simple, do some HCG/adex, get off, take some nolva/clomid etc and say my prayers.

But heres the case, I'm about 3 weeks in with HGH and Slin added. HGH costs ridicolously much here, and to be honest I'd rather deal with a little longer recovery than wasting synergy with HGH.

I got 250 IU left of HGH. Steroids/slin is unlimited.

I get pretty bad sides from estrogen, and orals are out of the question. I would prefer not to run more tren this cycle. I'm thinking of either cruising 4 weeks, do 4 heavy weeks and then PCT, or just get off asap, and back on after 6 weeks of agressive PCT. Only problem is that I realy need my sexdrive the next weeks.

And please, don't flame me for this, I know I should have done things differently.

I think that is an understatement.

I will address the sex drive issue only as you seem to know that this is not the way you run proper cycles.

I would suggest Viagra and a prayer.

Your prolactin / progestin is a train wreck probably, so caber may help also.

Best

T

PS-get some blood work done please!!!!

[Dumbass]

Thanks.

Oh and by the way, I have not been on tren for 20 weeks. I did tren first 9 weeks, and last 3. Plan was to go atleast 3 more for androgenic synergy with HGH but I guess we all agree that 15 weeks of tren in 24 weeks would make me an even bigger idiot.

Bloodwork will be done ASAP. It's also going to be another week before I can get HCG started most likely, I guess going off before HCG is here only will reduce gains without reducing recovery?

EDIT: My balls are for some reason not that small (would imagine they'd be gone by now). So I'm wondering if going of asap would be better than waiting for HCG?

[TITANIUM]

Thanks.

Oh and by the way, I have not been on tren for 20 weeks. I did tren first 9 weeks, and last 3. Plan was to go atleast 3 more for androgenic synergy with HGH but I guess we all agree that 15 weeks of tren in 24 weeks would make me an even bigger idiot.

Bloodwork will be done ASAP. It's also going to be another week before I can get HCG started most likely, I guess going off before HCG is here only will reduce gains without reducing recovery?

I would have ran the HCG during cycle, but you can run it in pct.(there are alot of ways to run it, Merc has the latest findings).

Best

T

[Dumbass]

More opinions would be greatly apreciated. Or does everyone agree that extending the cycle to get synergy with HGH just is ****ing up for myself not worth the gains? I know that a lot of people run way longer and at higher doses than me.

[Dumbass]

I would have ran the HCG during cycle, but you can run it in pct.(there are alot of ways to run it, Merc has the latest findings).

Best

T

Yeah, but it's kinda hard to get a hold on and I haven't quite tried that hard before now. Always believed in doing HCG the last weeks of a cycle (and as I said above I didn't even plan to get off), tough I might not be well enough educated on that topic.

[D7M]

First let's get some stats and cycle experience?

are you planning on competing?

If you're battling gyno that bad, and you're just using recreationally, then I really don't see the cost outweighing the benefits, man.

Why be so concerned about the synergy with the HGH?

I say come off, recover (if you can), and save the HGH for a later cycle.

[hankdiesel]

You can run the hgh without the test for a while and then start another test cycle once you've been fully recovered. Hopefully you have enough growth for that.

[Dumbass]

First let's get some stats and cycle experience?

are you planning on competing?

If you're battling gyno that bad, and you're just using recreationally, then I really don't see the cost outweighing the benefits, man.

Why be so concerned about the synergy with the HGH?

I say come off, recover (if you can), and save the HGH for a later cycle.

About 230 Pounds, 10% BF, 1.78 meters tall.

Done about 6-8 cycles before, tough I had a longer break before getting on this one. And yes, I plan on competing.

The reason for the HGH concern is simply the fact that I spent a fortune. I could by a shitty car or go on a cruise with someone for the same price, and I've always been under the impression that to get the good gains from it you should always stack with steroids or slin.

I guess everyone agrees then, that I should get off.

Then the reminding questions are:

1) How to do it with the HCG, as I said It will take atleast another week before I get it, if I can get it at all. Should I:
- Extend my cycle for the duration of HCG.
- Get off now, start nolva treatment and still do HCG a week or two into PCT.
- Or just skip the HCG, eventualy wait for bloodwoork to come back and see if it's LH/FSH or test etc that's lagging the most and base the desicion on that.

2) Keep doing the HGH, or increase/decrease? Stack slin at low dose?

EDIT: Ofc, everyone would rather say yes than no to HGH. But it should also be taken into consideration that I will not by more HGH anytime soon, so continuing HGH trough PCT will reduce HGH-usage next cycle.

The fear of coming of the HGH tough is that the month I've already been on it might be a waste, since people tend to say you should run it for a couple of months minimum.

Damn I'm such a f***ing idiot. Everyone doing the same as me, and I know your out here lurking, stop doing it. One day you have to come off ^^

[Dumbass]

Little update, I've got myself a source for HCG and if everything goes as it should I'm getting it in 2 days.

Plan is to do 10 000 IU while taking a good amount of Adex, and then go for the normal 40 mg's of nolva. I might do 40/40/40/20/20 or something like that. In addition I will be continuing HGH, 5 IU ED split into morning and pre-workout. And starting a new cycle of slin, 10 IU morning and 10 IU post-workout. Both HGH and slin will only be taken 5 days a week.

I might also add clen at around 100 mcg a day for the (tough discussed) anti-catabolic effect.

Input?

[TITANIUM]

Little update, I've got myself a source for HCG and if everything goes as it should I'm getting it in 2 days.

Plan is to do 10 000 IU while taking a good amount of Adex, and then go for the normal 40 mg's of nolva. I might do 40/40/40/20/20 or something like that. In addition I will be continuing HGH, 5 IU ED split into morning and pre-workout. And starting a new cycle of slin, 10 IU morning and 10 IU post-workout. Both HGH and slin will only be taken 5 days a week.

I might also add clen at around 100 mcg a day for the (tough discussed) anti-catabolic effect.

Input?

OK, so you should really add some clomid in there for your PCT.

Also, the gyno problem should be addressed.

Letro is going to be your only course of action here.

Coming of letro, you may have an estrogen rebound problem.

Then running nolva to clean up the rebound effect from that.

See how complicated it gets.

I like to keep things simple, More gear is not the answer to more/better gains.

Then when things go wrong, it's a nightmare.

I hope you makes out all right.

I personally would stop everything, get blood work, see what that says.

Then implement your PCT protocol.

Bloodwork after PCT.(I don't know your baseline for comparison).


And your gyno issue needs to be addressed now.

Best

T

[Mooseman33]

man i think you should stop everything and allow ur body time to recover.
why start to add slin now?

dammit man, take ur health serious, u should not be taking anything at this time, u should be focussed on one thing and one thing only......recovery

get blood work done

[Merc.]

Do you have testicular atrophy ?????

If you want to include HCG in your pct its best to use with aromasin ( a type I AI).. and you need to run nolva when you use HCG in pct.. Nolva helps to block the suppressive nature of HCG . it blocks the conversion of 17-OHP into test .. Here is a link to a thread with some studies about that if you wanna check it out..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...highlight=merc

Also keep in mind that Nolva can make type II Ai's less effective.. a type II AI ( like adex ) can be partially eliminated by nolva , and it unfortunately needs to be present to coutninue its aromatase inhibition .. a type I Ai ( like aromasin ) does not need to be present to continue doing its job on the aromatase enzyme .. Once a type I AI does its job , the enzyme its attached to is useless.. that why you would wanna use a type I Ai like Aromasin... So it would be HCG , nolva , aromasin.


Merc.

[Darksyde]

Do you have testicular atrophy ?????

If you want to include HCG in your pct its best to use with aromasin ( a type I AI).. and you need to run nolva when you use HCG in pct.. Nolva helps to block the suppressive nature of HCG . it blocks the conversion of 17-OHP into test .. Here is a link to a thread with some studies about that if you wanna check it out..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...highlight=merc

Also keep in mind that Nolva can make type II Ai's less effective.. a type II AI ( like adex ) can be partially eliminated by nolva , and it unfortunately needs to be present to coutninue its aromatase inhibition .. a type I Ai ( like aromasin ) does not need to be present to continue doing its job on the aromatase enzyme .. Once a type I AI does its job , the enzyme its attached to is useless.. that why you would wanna use a type I Ai like Aromasin... So it would be HCG , nolva , aromasin.


Merc.

great info

[Dumbass]

Great info, tough I'm afraid aromasin isn't inventory at any of my suppliers.. So I just have nolva/hcg/adex to work with here.

And yes, I have testicular atrophy to some degree. My balls are definately smaller, tough they are "still there". I've seen them worse on 14 weeks of deca (1000mg)..

Also, I am adressing my gyno, thats what the nolva and adex are for. Almost no symptoms left, only a little sore if pressed. I'm pretty sure that's under control and growth have been minimal.

[Dumbass]

Titanium, shouldn't I start HCG/nolva treatment right away? It's a miracle if bloodwork doesn't say I should, and BW here takes a couple of weeks. I would hate to start HCG weeks after ending the cycle, delaying recovery even more.

[TITANIUM]

Titanium, shouldn't I start HCG/nolva treatment right away? It's a miracle if bloodwork doesn't say I should, and BW here takes a couple of weeks. I would hate to start HCG weeks after ending the cycle, delaying recovery even more.

I would start is now.(HCG).

Best

T

[Dumbass]

Just gonna update my status here in case anyones interested.

Recovery have been a dream compared to what I deserve after being such an idiot.

I started HCG asap, 500-750 IU ED. At this time Nolva had to be as high as 80 mg, combined with adex, to keep me from developing gyno. Im wondering if the adex is bunk or the nolva is underdosed, tough both are from "trusted" UG-labs.

Testicular atrophy was after only 5000 IU HCG not noticeable. I continued nolva @ 40 mg ED, for about 4 weeks, and about one more week @ 20 mg.

My strength is almost the same as during the cycle, tough I pissed out about 15 pounds after discontinuing HCG. I suspect Slin/HGH had something to do with this, despite the fact that I stopped using both about 2 weeks into PCT.

Bloodwork have not yet been done, due to a conflit with my doctor. But all over I´m feeling good, and estrogen is not high (with my gyno sensitivity I would have noticed). My sex-drive is not where it was pre-cycle, but this is improving week by week.

All over I´m going to be surprised if I don´t make a full recovery pretty soon. Bloodwork will be done as soon as I get a new doctor, and if there is any interest I will keep you guys updated.

Thanks to everyone that helped set me straight. I will take a LONG brake, and never, ever again have so little respect for things I inject my body with.

[D7M]

Glad to hear you're feeling good, and things are going well.

Yah, please keep us posted with your bloodwork, bro.

[Dumbass]

Glad to hear you're feeling good, and things are going well.

Yah, please keep us posted with your bloodwork, bro.

Thanks mate

I will post any relevant updates as soon as possible.

[holdmypole-r1]

Good to hear you are getting things worked out bro!

[hankdiesel]

Good to hear you are getting things worked out bro!

Ya, and you can send those extra 250iu over to me whenever you get a chance.