First Cycle - Advice please

[rmalouf]

ok guys, before i say anything, here are my stats:

age 22 (turning 23 in a few months)
height 6'0.5"
weight 235
body fat approx. 17%
years lifting almost 3 (very serious lifting)
supplments: ive tried basically everything, i currently only stick to the esseentials (protein, creatine monohydrate, multi, fish oil and joint supp)
ph/ds history: tried protodrol and dymethazine last, no real side and some minor gains.
diet: currently i eat about 5K calories a day meal times are usually 5am, 8am, 10.45am, 1.30pm, 4pm, 7pm and 9pm. I follow my diet very strictly and am very disciplined.

What im looking for: lean mass gains.

im looking for a decent beginner stack that will give me lean mass gains, im not looking to bulk anymore as ive already put on 30lbs since last summer. furthermore im not interested in strength gains at the time as ive already gained crazy strength and my joints are still catching up.

ive been thinking about stacking some good old test e with anavar. i would appeciate your adavice on cycle duration and dosaging, as well as pct recommendations. i have done plenty of research, and have gone over william llewellyn's book, however there is so much info out there that i just want to hear from ppl's own experiences.

Let me know if you need to know anything else about me. thanks in advance.

Rob

[polly56]

those are some solid stats...

My first question as I'm sure others are wondering is What types of food does your diet consist of ?

If your trying to lean out and not interested in strength or size I dont really think you'll need AAS

[ironflames]

yea i agree. add more cardio to your routine bro. lifting hard and adding more cardio will only help you with getting lean.

[rmalouf]

thx for replying guys, and sorry i dint give more detail, here it comes:

diet:
meal 1
4 serv oats, 1 banana, 1.5 serv skim milk, 2 scoops protein

meal 2
3 serv brown rice, 8oz chicken/beef/fish

meal 3 post workout shake
700-1000 cals high in carb (dextrose/maltodextrin) and protein 70-85g and some fats

meal 4
3 serv brown rice, 8oz chicken/beef/fish

meal 5
3 serv brown rice, 8oz chicken/beef/fish

meal 6
3 serv brown rice, 8oz chicken/beef/fish

meal 7
2 scoops casein or syntha 6 (depends on calorie needs)

Training:

day 1 chest and arms
day 2 quads/calves/20 min stairmaster
day 3 back/abs
day 4 traps/shoulder/30 min cardio
day 5 hams/lower back/calves

Goal: COMPETE/PRO BODYBUILDING

i feel that im ready to begin my journey into the anabolic steroids world. i am looking for a decent beginner stack that will better my muscle quality, vascularity and shape. I would go with the common test/d-bol, but i feel like i am not ready to put on more weight, as previously mentioned ive put on 30lbs sicne september 09.

i would very much appreciate your advice, as i know many of you here on the forums are experienced bodybuilders with steroids experience. please be detailed. thanks in advance.

Rob

[rmalouf]

anyone??

[juiceda26]

Deca durabolan -DECABOLIC - 400mg per week for 8 weeks
Sustanon 250 OR Testaviron depot - 500mg -SUSTAINBOLIC per week for 8 weeks
Dianabol - 30mg per day, six days per week for 6 weeks

This stack should produce good results for the steroid user looking for mass. Here the Deca should be 400mg for optimum effects, and the Dianabol at the onset helps kick start the cycle while you are waiting for the longer acting Deca and test to take effect.
don't forget pct.

[Phate]

Deca durabolan -DECABOLIC - 400mg per week for 8 weeks
Sustanon 250 OR Testaviron depot - 500mg -SUSTAINBOLIC per week for 8 weeks
Dianabol - 30mg per day, six days per week for 6 weeks

This stack should produce good results for the steroid user looking for mass. Here the Deca should be 400mg for optimum effects, and the Dianabol at the onset helps kick start the cycle while you are waiting for the longer acting Deca and test to take effect.
don't forget pct.

really? cause i see a few problems with it

1) the deca will take 6-7 weeks before it really starts working so running it 8 weeks is pointless

2) test needs to be run a week past deca(test enth or cyp) for pct times to line up

3) for a first cycle a single ester is a better choice

4) dianabol 6 days a week? why? all you would be doing is screwing with your blood serum levels which will result in more estrogen related sides

[juiceda26]

really? cause i see a few problems with it

1) the deca will take 6-7 weeks before it really starts working so running it 8 weeks is pointless

2) test needs to be run a week past deca(test enth or cyp) for pct times to line up

3) for a first cycle a single ester is a better choice

4) dianabol 6 days a week? why? all you would be doing is screwing with your blood serum levels which will result in more estrogen related sides

edit.....cant post sites where they sells steroids, sorry

[Phate]

/

that link is BS(at least the first 2 cycles are), did you not notice where it says in big red letters, "You can buy all this(btw it should be these, not this, which further shows unprofessionalism, meaning the person that wrote it didn't bother checking it over) from the blog sponsor." that's a huge red flag

but if you want to debate the cycle i would be happy to do so, i think it could benefit the thread greatly, so feel free to rebuff my points in the earlier post

[juiceda26]

Saying it is wrong doesn't help the person asking. What do you suggest?

[BG]

really? cause i see a few problems with it

1) the deca will take 6-7 weeks before it really starts working so running it 8 weeks is pointless

2) test needs to be run a week past deca(test enth or cyp) for pct times to line up

3) for a first cycle a single ester is a better choice

4) dianabol 6 days a week? why? all you would be doing is screwing with your blood serum levels which will result in more estrogen related sides

I agree, I think d-bol should be kept out all together. Add that in down the road for cycle 3-4 instead of increasing your dosages to much.

I feel guys exhaust to many avenues to fast when starting gear. Do your test only, then a test/d-bol, then a test/deca/d-bol....and if you do it this way you wont have to ever increase dosages and still get gains. Most guys by 3rd cycle are up to 750mgs of test, thats not needed imo.

[Phate]

Saying it is wrong doesn't help the person asking. What do you suggest?

well i pointed out the flaws in it already, i can expand on why if you like.

First things first though, RMALOUF, could you get me the macros for each meal as well as the total macros for the day(cal/pro/carb/fat)

as far as what cycle he should run, i would like to know how he got his bf% checked? or he can post pics

[juiceda26]

i see why you think it is flawed but im not the only one who thinks d-bol is great to start with until the deca kicks in.

[juiceda26]

my first cycle was d-bol and test cyp and it was awesome.

[Phate]

i see why you think it is flawed but im not the only one who thinks d-bol is great to start with until the deca kicks in.

i never said there was anything wrong with that, but the 6 days a week thing is terrible, the reason being the orals are digested and metabolized very quickly, that is why you spread out the dosages over the course of the day, so you keep a steady amount of the compound being metabolized constantly

but when you miss a dose or take too much you create a spike in your blood serum concentrations, this causes the aromatase enzyme to be released. Aromatase is responsible for converting testosterone into estrogen, and when you get too much estrogen conversion your side effects increase

my first cycle was d-bol and test cyp and it was awesome.

if you look at the stickies in this section i wrote a test beginner guide in which dbol/test enth is an option

[juiceda26]

If you say deca would be a waste of time at only 8 weeks then why is 200-300mg a week for 8-10 weeks known as the most common cycle?

[Phate]

If you say deca would be a waste of time at only 8 weeks then why is 200-300mg a week for 8-10 weeks known as the most common cycle?

it's not, 12 weeks is much more common, but different boards vary on what is standard, here is how we break it down

first cycle:
optional dbol 40mg 1-4
test 500mg/wk 1-12

what that does is allow the person to assess how their body reacts to test at that dosage

second cycle:mass
test 500mg/wk 1-12 or 14
deca 300-400mg/wk 1-11 or 13
dbol kickstart optional

now that they have a cycle under their belt they can add another compound if they like, and since they ran the first cycle for 12 weeks, they can add a bit more time this cycle since the dosage isn't changing to allow for the extra time it takes for the deca to kick in

[juiceda26]

what about test prop?

[Phate]

what about test prop?

what do you mean?

like an 8 week prop/NPP cycle?

[jjredd]

the beginner cycle that the top threads suggest are always best to see how your body will react. Just like PHATE pointed out. I Agree with everything he has said

[juiceda26]

ya. What do you think?

[juiceda26]

shorter esters provide much less water retention

[Phate]

ya. What do you think?

well, NPP is basically short estered deca so you're basically turning a longer ester cycle into a shorter one, personally for mass i would like the longer cycle since you would have more time to grow overall

shorter esters provide much less water retention

not quite, but they do help

[juiceda26]

ya he just made it sound like he didnt want any water retention or to even gain weight.

[Phate]

ya he just made it sound like he didnt want any water retention or to even gain weight.

then he can use arimidex(start at 0.25mg EOD) to lower estrogen levels

[rmalouf]

well here are my nutrient intakes (these are estimates)

-protein about 400g
-carbs about 500-600g
-fat about 100g

as for my bf, i used a BIA....i dont have any recent pics, but here are some of back from summer 09 and before, look at the dates plz.

and yeah i have actually been considering a test/deca cycle as ive heard many good things about it..

hope this helps. let me know if you guys need anymore info. Thanks

Rob

[rmalouf]

also just to clarify, i wouldnt mind gaining weight, i just want it to be clean wieght...in other words i dont want my body fat to get any higher..

Rob

[theryano]

Great ideas...but i do think that if he chooses to use dbol theres gonna be water retention....however...size will increase

[Phate]

Great ideas...but i do think that if he chooses to use dbol theres gonna be water retention....however...size will increase

then he can use arimidex(start at 0.25mg EOD) to lower estrogen levels

these two quotes go perfect together

[rmalouf]

so pretty much what u guys are saying is that i could probably do a dbol/test cycle and just take an AI n i could avoid alot of the water weight/bloating...
i guessing eating clean as well would help the gains be more clean...
i think i may just start with this cycle, ive seen many ppl use it as the first cycle...