*NEED ADVICE* Cutting Cycle Only!!!

[bdogs79]

Ok here's my stats:

Age - 31
Bf% - about 13
Previous cycles: No AS, only clen/t3 + ECA stacks in past for fat cutting.
Diet - High pro, low fat, mod carbs...intake about 5 times daily
Workout - Cardio (swimming/running) 5x/week + Lifting 3x/week

Please don't reply if it's just to say "improve your diet and ncrease exercise". I have tried everything, and believe my diet, etc are good. The problem is I still have a small amount of fat around the problem areas, and no matter how hard i work it, it wont go away. Or when I have had success in the past (with a clen/t3 cycle), I lost so much muscle, it wasn't worth it!

I'd like to begin a clen (or ECA) cycle again (to lose a few bf% points) for 6-8 weeks, and also gain a few pounds of HARD, LEAN muscle...with little water retention...I DON'T want to bulk up at all. I'm a swimmer, and need to stay LEAN, but also could use small lean muscle gains. So which AS should I add to the clen cycle?

I've read hours of research on PRIMOBOLAN, WINN, etc...and already know the details/side effects of clen/t3.

**Most important thing is...I'm deathly afraid of needles HAHA...and WILL NOT do injectables**
I also don't want to risk the estro side effects of some of the stronger drugs...that's what made me think Primo at first.

I thought about only doing a Clen/Primo cycle...but I've seen many posts with people saying "NEVER take Primo alone"...and to cycle it with Test E because natural Test levels will bottom out while taking Primo alone...(But that won't work for me b/c it's injectable)...

So FINALLY, here's my question...

What ORAL cycle will go best with a clen cycle (with all the things I want -- 1) a cutting-only AS, 2) low water retention, 3) ORAL not Injectable, 4) No risk of estrogen aromatizing, 5) safe to use with Clen, 6) low liver toxicity as with many orals.

Thanks for your help...

[bdogs79]

Also, I could use an ECA instead of clen (if it goes better with any of the AS options).

[Bertuzzi]

Stats sound good for an Anavar only cycle. A lot of guys on here don't advise on an oral only cycle and from doing to anavar only cycles myself, I now agree with them. My next cycle I am gonna go with some Test and anavar, but thats just what I've decided. Do some major research on it and decide how you want to setup your cycle. I personally would go 80mg/ed for 8 weeks followed by 4 weeks PCT nolva/clomid. Take milk thistle with the cycle to prevent any liver damage even though var is very mild, you still want to be safe.

Make sure before you jump into a cycle that you do as much research as possible. You're at the right place to find the answers. Use the advanced search function and type in anavar and select in the title only, you will find the answers.

Good Luck

[bdogs79]

Thanks...Anavar seems like it does exactly what I'm looking for (with minimal side-effects). I'll have to do more research, but if I do use an Anavar only cycle...

1) Do you have to build up to the cycle max (i.e. days 1-7 40mg..days 8-14 60mg..etc)?
2) Can it be used (is it safe) at the same time as Clen...to increase lypolosis?
3) Is there a need for PCT? Because it doesn't convert to estrogen, will I even need a PCT?
4) Is milk thistle the best thing to take for liver protection?

[Bertuzzi]

No point in cascading it. Just start your dose at whatever you decide and keep it the same for the whole cycle. Spread the dose outn over the day by taking it 2 or 3 times. When I do 90mg/ed I go 30mg morning, 30mg lunch, and 30mg at supper. I am not sure if it can be used with clen, I am not educated enough on clen to give you a proper answer. You will need PCT 100% for sure, no questions asked. Your natural test levels will be extremely low during and after the cycle. I run Clomid at 50mg/ed for 4 weeks and Nolva 40mg/ed for 2 weeks then 20mg/ed for 2 more weeks. Yes take both clomid and nolva in the same day I do one in the morning and the other at lunch, but thats just how I do it. If you want to use another product for liver protection by all means use what you like, just make sure its reputable and you take it.

[bdogs79]

Also, if no local source is available...from your experience..which online places are most reputable to buy from...I don't wanna waste that type of money if I'm just gonna be buying junk...

[Bertuzzi]

This is not a source board.... and just by asking that question you've opened yourself up to scammers. I'm sure you will receive msgs from people saying they can hook you up.... don't talk to any of them, they will scam you. Go do some research, there are many boards on the net that are dedicated to sourcing.... everything comes down to research.

Good Luck

[bdogs79]

true...although i didn't mean small time sites...like if there are a couple BIG reputable sites most ppl on here use...it would help to know...

Because just clicking a link to some of the better "advertised" sites on here like "***********. com" , etc...you still can't be sure they're reputable and have good product, just that they advertise well.

So ppl's input may be worth it...despite the possibilities of scammers...

[Phate]

true.....

asking for sources is against the rules

[bdogs79]

oh...sry didnt realize that...
ok well how about back to the original focus...is this the best cutting cycle for my scenario? Bertuzzi gave some good advice..anyone have anything to add?

[bdogs79]

In other words...is there any downside to running a Anavar-only cycle? Or running Clen with Anavar?

Or is there a better cycle for my purposes?

[Bertuzzi]

You're probably not going to get much advice on oral only cycles on this forum.... most guys don't like them or encourage them. Hopefully BJJ will chime in, I'm sure he'll have some good advice for you. Laduem seems to always have good advice on the subject too. I'm sure someone will give some more advice. Just wait

[bdogs79]

bump....BJJ any toughts?

[bdogs79]

....

[Bertuzzi]

As I said.... its hard to get advice on orals here. Just do some research you'll figure it all out. I spend hours each day just reading over hundreds of threads, even about stuff I don't think I'll ever do, because I learn about the stuff I do and want to do from all of it. Good Luck

[dec11]

you can diet without clen, just lay everything out straight and hit it hard and commited, clen isnt worth it in my opinion, overrated and dodgy

[bdogs79]

yeah, ive been looking, but still have some uncertainty about anavar with clen...

and also, so far this seems like the best "cutting" cycle for my situation...but still waiting to hear if anyone has other opinions.

[dec11]

if it was me id just use the anavar and restrict my carb intake to fuelling purposes for my work outs

[bdogs79]

well, like i said above...i've got my diet down to what it needs to be...no matter how hard i work certain areas, they still hold onto this one layer of fat...i thought clen would give the boost i need, that my workouts aren't doing...

i've used clen before with success...just not with Var...so i just want to make sure there's no additional harm in using the two together (like drug interactions, etc).

[dec11]

well, like i said above...i've got my diet down to what it needs to be...no matter how hard i work certain areas, they still hold onto this one layer of fat...i thought clen would give the boost i need, that my workouts aren't doing...

i've used clen before with success...just not with Var...so i just want to make sure there's no additional harm in using the two together (like drug interactions, etc).

there wont be, ive used along side cycles b4

[bdogs79]

Ok, well in that case...here's my proposed cycle...anyone feel im going wrong? **(Remember, i'm only looking to gain a few lbs. of lean muscle, and shed a few %bf, to tone up for swimming season...not looking to bulk at all...and can't use injectables).
With that said:

Week 1:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Clenbuterol 40mcg/breakfast.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 2-3:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Clenbuterol 80 mcg/breakfast.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 4-6:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Clenbuterol 100mcg/breakfast.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 7-8:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 9-10 (PCT):
Clomid 50 mg/breakfast
Nolva 40 mg/lunch

Weeks 11-12 (PCT):
Clomid 50 mg/breakfast
Nolva 20 mg/lunch

[bdogs79]

And of course, the right diet/workout to go along with the cyle.

Also, are there any better liver detox's to take during cycle (besides milk thistle)?

[Phate]

And of course, the right diet/workout to go along with the cyle.

Also, are there any better liver detox's to take during cycle (besides milk thistle)?

liv52 is a good one, it's cheap and you can get it over the internet easily

[bdogs79]

except i've heard liv52 causes major diahhrea most of the time...

[bdogs79]

any other thoughts on my proposed cycle...if not I think I'll be ordering this week...

btw...anyone have concern about the GP Oxan 10mg (orange pill) from www.NA**G**R.net?

I know we're not supposed to post sites here...so I've ommited most of the letters...but people that have used this site will know what I'm talking about...please let me know if you have had any problems with products from them, before I order.

[BJJ]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?p=5070177

With a proper diet, you do not need clen, IMO.

[tjax03]

NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) is one of the best liver support supplements you can buy. I think Liv52 may contain it, but you can buy it alone and it definitely shouldn't cause diarrhea.

[Bertuzzi]

Ok, well in that case...here's my proposed cycle...anyone feel im going wrong? **(Remember, i'm only looking to gain a few lbs. of lean muscle, and shed a few %bf, to tone up for swimming season...not looking to bulk at all...and can't use injectables).
With that said:

Week 1:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Clenbuterol 40mcg/breakfast.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 2-3:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Clenbuterol 80 mcg/breakfast.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 4-6:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Clenbuterol 100mcg/breakfast.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 7-8:
Anavar 40mg/breakfast + 40mg/lunch.
Normal supplements/vit's.
Milk thistle (or some liver detox).

Weeks 9-10 (PCT):
Clomid 50 mg/breakfast
Nolva 40 mg/lunch

Weeks 11-12 (PCT):
Clomid 50 mg/breakfast
Nolva 20 mg/lunch

I think you may be over doing the clen, I know you've used it before so if it works well for you that way then great, go with it. I have never used it, I stick to an ECA. I read an interesting post on clen and using it 2 days on-2 days off.... I wish I could find it again.... Oh well. Everything looks good except I would go 30-20-30 on the var am-noon-pm. Thats just a personal choice though, I feel you'll get better results and as BJJ mentioned in your other thread it maintains the anabolic effect.

Good Luck

[Trenquility]

How come no one has asked him his diet yet? Everyone thinks their diet is good until they get it critique by someone who knows what theya re doing... And second, if he can't do injections, then steroids are simply not meant for him, don't purpose these damn oral only cycles, thats the kind of ideas you get in high school, we are all adults here.

[Bertuzzi]

How come no one has asked him his diet yet? Everyone thinks their diet is good until they get it critique by someone who knows what theya re doing... And second, if he can't do injections, then steroids are simply not meant for him, don't purpose these damn oral only cycles, thats the kind of ideas you get in high school, we are all adults here.

Ummm.... your opinion on this thread is obviously as valid as you knowledge on Anavar.... Why are you commenting on this thread? Did you get flamed because your diet isn't in check and are a little pissed off about it? Please if you don't have anything constructive to add here.... stay out of this thread.

Thanks

[Trenquility]

Ummm.... your opinion on this thread is obviously as valid as you knowledge on Anavar.... Why are you commenting on this thread? Did you get flamed because your diet isn't in check and are a little pissed off about it? Please if you don't have anything constructive to add here.... stay out of this thread.

Thanks

My friend I definitely know much more about Anavar than you do, and you've done a total of what, 1 stupid oral cycle? You're the one that needs to keep your comments to yourself before you go influencing the OP into doing and oral only cycle.

I've been around the game longer than you kid, you should watch who your talking to like that. If I asked something, it's to help the person.

Oh and also, when did I ever talk about Anavar? Seems you're already on the defensive, and I havn't even talked about your stupid posts.

[Bertuzzi]

LOL.... keep it out of the thread tough guy... you gotta problem and want to yell then PM me... don't mess up the thread. How inconsiderate. Maybe you need to read the rules again

[Trenquility]

LOL.... keep it out of the thread tough guy... you gotta problem and want to yell then PM me... don't mess up the thread. How inconsiderate. Maybe you need to read the rules again

My point proven you have no clue what you're talking about and just don't want me to come and make you look stupid after giving a first timer some bad advice and simply telling him steroids are the answer to his problems? An ECA stack and good diet will get him better cutting results than an Anavar only cycle, without all the hormonal problems, and esspecially since he will never be serious about steroids because he will not do injections, it is better he not touch them at all, and keep his natural hormone levels the way they are.


OP, could you give me some details on your diet so we can see if there are any things we can help tweak to get you better results?


PS. By the way you talk Bertuzzi, I can tell you are still young and immature, and most probably should not be touching steroids either.

[Bertuzzi]

As stated in my original post I would agree after doing 2 cycles of Var only I will not do it again without test. hmmm.... Did I say that? Oh yes I did. Also I never once mentioned it would help him burn his fat and agree an ECA is a better option as I stated in another post in this thread.... Weird how I covered those 2 bases you are referring to. Maybe you should read a little more before you jump down my throat.... bdogs good luck with your cycle.

Since you're so educated on AAS tren, I look forward to any future advice you can offer me. Thanks

[Trenquility]

As stated in my original post I would agree after doing 2 cycles of Var only I will not do it again without test. hmmm.... Did I say that? Oh yes I did. Also I never once mentioned it would help him burn his fat and agree an ECA is a better option as I stated in another post in this thread.... Weird how I covered those 2 bases you are referring to. Maybe you should read a little more before you jump down my throat.... bdogs good luck with your cycle.

Since you're so educated on AAS tren, I look forward to any future advice you can offer me. Thanks

I didn't jump down your throat, you need to calm down. You were the one telling me I had no buisness being in this thread, and I simply was giving my points as to what I believed would be a better alternative for the OP. You need to chill and not be so defensive.

[Bertuzzi]

How come no one has asked him his diet yet? Everyone thinks their diet is good until they get it critique by someone who knows what theya re doing... And second, if he can't do injections, then steroids are simply not meant for him, don't purpose these damn oral only cycles, thats the kind of ideas you get in high school, we are all adults here.

You say I need to calm down?? Wow... look at how aggressive that was. Anyways you are entitle to your opinion I just think you need to work on your presentation a little more. If you had been a little less aggressive and a little more"calm" yourself I would not have responded to you at all.

[Trenquility]

You say I need to calm down?? Wow... look at how aggressive that was. Anyways you are entitle to your opinion I just think you need to work on your presentation a little more. If you had been a little less aggressive and a little more"calm" yourself I would not have responded to you at all.

Aggressive? Wow your a wierd kid... nothing I said was aggressive at all? Maybe you are just a little too sensitive?

[Phate]

calm down or take it to pms please

[bdogs79]

My point proven you have no clue what you're talking about and just don't want me to come and make you look stupid after giving a first timer some bad advice and simply telling him steroids are the answer to his problems? An ECA stack and good diet will get him better cutting results than an Anavar only cycle, without all the hormonal problems, and esspecially since he will never be serious about steroids because he will not do injections, it is better he not touch them at all, and keep his natural hormone levels the way they are.


OP, could you give me some details on your diet so we can see if there are any things we can help tweak to get you better results?


PS. By the way you talk Bertuzzi, I can tell you are still young and immature, and most probably should not be touching steroids either.

Sounds like someone has roid-rage...please don't hijack my thread...I'm trying to get good advice...and every piece of advice you've given, I had already addressed in my original post (or did you not go back that far?...with the diet, needles, reasons for clen, etc.)...so if you just are going to contradict what I know about my own body...and tell me to diet better or workout more...save yourself the time typing here...
I'm asking for advice on my proposed cycle to get it tweaked best for my situation...not whether I "should" be doing one...DAD...