Looking for some guidance

[Epic Ed]

I'm a n00b to the forum. Thanks for having a place to discuss this kind of stuff. I'm not sure exactly where to place this topic, so if it needs to be moved, please do. I've placed it here because, ultimately, the road has so far lead me to beginning TRT as of yesterday. But a little background first.

I'm quite familiar with the gym. I'll be 42 next week and started lifting at age 15. I've never taken any form of AAS, but have been around it enough and around others who have taken various stacks over the years to be conversationally familiar with the topic. What brought me here is a search for advice on what combination of tools will best help me get back to feeling like a healthy adult male. I'm not looking to see how much space I can take up on the planet, nor am I interested in competitive body building.

Most of my adult life I've been very active and healthy -- backpacking, rock climbing, mountain biking, etc. I've always had a few extra pounds, but had maintained a nice range between 185-195 lbs and stand 5'10". About 10 years ago I tore my left medial meniscus, and in 2007 I tore my right medial meniscus. A combination of poor diet and reduced physical activity bulked my fat ass up to about 247 lbs in 2008. I dropped back to 200 lbs with some dedicated dieting and gym work to get my legs stronger, and then had meniscus surgery on both knees last year.

Recovery from the surgery has been rather non-typical. My knees suck. They ache, and it's been nearly a year since I got my 1st knee scoped. Once again, diet and reduced exercise have my weight back up to around the 235 lb range but I've really been struggling the last six months with just feeling like shit. Low energy, mild depression, loss of libido, poor concentration...all the symptoms of low testosterone. Long story short -- the ortho doc has diagnosed me with some mild osteoarthritis and my GP has diagnosed me with low test. I just took my first 100mg shot of test cip yesterday and the doc agreed to have me taking 100mg every week.

My questions:

- Researching some possible solutions for the joint pain led me to take a look at deca. Problem is, it looks like it would work to counteract the libido enhancement I'd hoping to get from the test cip. Is there another AAS out there that would help me with the joint pain, help the recovery process for the knee joints, and not drop my sex drive drastically?

- My GP has no problem writing a script for the test cip, but I'm doubting he woul be willing to write one for deca or something similar. I asked the ortho doc and he isn't willing to go that route, either -- he's never used it for treatment.

- How the heck do I find a doctor who might be willing to write a script for an AAS like deca given my physical circumstances. In other words, has anyone had success or heard of anyone having success getting a doc to write them a script for the joint recovery process?


Thanks in advance.

[Vettester]

Ed, welcome to the site ... You'll get a wealth of knowledge hanging around here. I don't have any experience with Deca, but there's plenty here who have and they will surely chime in soon enough. I do have joint issues, and I take plenty of EFA's (Omeg3,6,9 Fish Oil, Flax), which have helped tremendously. However, I'm not ruling out putting some Deca in the mix at some point if it will provide better relief. I'm getting into heavier weights and routines, and the EFA's only go so far, but glad they're there.

Let us know how you come along with your TRT treatments.

[zaggahamma]

you'll need an anti aging clinic...google those three words...

they will be the ones that will prescribe deca

[Epic Ed]

Vett -- I've been taking a glucosamine/condroitin supplement, and one capsule of fish oil. So, when you say "plenty" of EFA what kind of dosing are you finding is beneficial?

JPK -- that's the search I was hoping to find. Thanks. I'll see what I can turn up around here.

[zaggahamma]

Vett -- I've been taking a glucosamine/condroitin supplement, and one capsule of fish oil. So, when you say "plenty" of EFA what kind of dosing are you finding is beneficial?

JPK -- that's the search I was hoping to find. Thanks. I'll see what I can turn up around here.

youre welcome keep us posted with your venture

[Vettester]

Vett -- I've been taking a glucosamine/condroitin supplement, and one capsule of fish oil. So, when you say "plenty" of EFA what kind of dosing are you finding is beneficial?

JPK -- that's the search I was hoping to find. Thanks. I'll see what I can turn up around here.

I also take some glucosamine on workout days.

On my EFA's, each tab is 1000mg, and it's a blend of Omeg3,6,9, CLA, GLA, DHA, etc. I take 2 tabs in the morning, 2 in the afternoon, and 2 more on workout days. Good stuff, I notice my joints feel a little lubricated with it.

[lovbyts]

I also take some glucosamine on workout days.

On my EFA's, each tab is 1000mg, and it's a blend of Omeg3,6,9, CLA, GLA, DHA, etc. I take 2 tabs in the morning, 2 in the afternoon, and 2 more on workout days. Good stuff, I notice my joints feel a little lubricated with it.

Must be nice. I have taken fishoil for a LONG time, months steady and off/on for years. More than you even recommend. Also Ive done all the glucosamine with MSN and whatever the other stuff is. lol I even did MSN straight mix with everything but nothing seems to help much, not even deca that much so far. Only anti inflammatory help some.

Maybe my Deca is/was under dosed or??? Im hoping to find an anti aging clinic that also does Deca.

[Epic Ed]

What symptoms are you trying to mitigate? Joint pain of some sort, I assume?

[Vettester]

Must be nice. I have taken fishoil for a LONG time, months steady and off/on for years. More than you even recommend. Also Ive done all the glucosamine with MSN and whatever the other stuff is. lol I even did MSN straight mix with everything but nothing seems to help much, not even deca that much so far. Only anti inflammatory help some.

Maybe my Deca is/was under dosed or??? Im hoping to find an anti aging clinic that also does Deca.

Like I've mentioned in other posts, I do see some improvements with the EFA's, but I'm sure it could be a whole lot better. I'm with you on the Deca. My HRT doc does just about everything right, but he doesn't do Deca. He's got this Prolotherapy shot program that he wants me to consider, which is a mixture of ingredients (non steroid) that they inject directly into the joints or areas where you have issues. Won't fully rule that out, but can't a man just get a weekly shot of deca in the ass and be done with it? Don't like the thought of needles going into my elbo, fingers, knees ... There's some info on YouTube if anyone does a search.

[Epic Ed]

I'm scheduled to get another round of synthetic fluid injections for both of my knees next week. I can't remember the first brand, but it really didn't do shit, IMO. He's going to try a different brand this time, one that reportedly has more success. We'll see. But I'm with you -- injection into the joint makes me queasy. Not my favorite.

[zaggahamma]

i thought when i was on deca i had rotator cuff relief

[Epic Ed]

Bit of an update. The doc wrote me a script today for 100mg of test EW. Also wrote the script for 18ga needles and 23 gauge needles. Took this weeks shot in the office -- my second week of treatment. It's going to be a real mental challenge sticking myself in the leg with that needle. Once it's in -- no problem. But crossing that threshold to get there? Yikes. We'll see how it goes.

I'm scheduled for follow up blood work in three months. I also asked him about deca. He's never heard of it being used for joint pain issues and, despite the numerous stories of people who have has some degree of help from using deca, there appears to be no empirical data on the subject. Looks like no one has done any specific researched on the effects of deca in mitigating joint pain. If anyone is aware of existing studies I'd love to know about it so I could pass it along to my docs. They may be more receptive to the idea.

[zaggahamma]

Bit of an update. The doc wrote me a script today for 100mg of test EW. Also wrote the script for 18ga needles and 23 gauge needles. Took this weeks shot in the office -- my second week of treatment. It's going to be a real mental challenge sticking myself in the leg with that needle. Once it's in -- no problem. But crossing that threshold to get there? Yikes. We'll see how it goes.

I'm scheduled for follow up blood work in three months. I also asked him about deca. He's never heard of it being used for joint pain issues and, despite the numerous stories of people who have has some degree of help from using deca, there appears to be no empirical data on the subject. Looks like no one has done any specific researched on the effects of deca in mitigating joint pain. If anyone is aware of existing studies I'd love to know about it so I could pass it along to my docs. They may be more receptive to the idea.

sounds good bro...
but man up with the needles bro

[Epic Ed]

I'm a ninny -- what can I say.

[Vettester]

Have you considered pinning the glute/hip area instead? Much easier to work with (IMO). Also, I found 25g to work better for me, hardly notice it's in me. Got to squeeze a little harder to get it out, but you can always warm it up a bit too, which will make it easier. Food for thought.

[flatscat]

I have been taking 200mg's/week of deca for the last month - has helped a ton with my knee (no cartlige left after surgery) in the last week or so. I am hungry like a mo fo, and I upped my t to 300/week to counter act the deca d---. I have some caber coming in as well.

[Epic Ed]

That's good news about your knees. I'm fairly certain that I can get some deca from a trusted buddy, but it's not looking promising for me to find a doc who will write a script. My problem will be making the decision to go that off the books route, or not. If I do, I'm wondering how little a dose of deca I can use and still get the joint pain relief benefits, because my Test dose is only 100mg per week, and heck, low test was my primary symptom to start with. I might be willing to try a 1:1 ratio and see how it goes.

[BOB89]

I believe that a 1:1 ratio with a dose of Deca that low is acceptable. I looked into it before but can't remember the source for that. Sorry.

[Epic Ed]

Well, I stabbed myself in the leg by myself for the first time tonight. I'd call my self a lil bitch, but that would be insulting to all the lil bitches out there to compare them to how much of a Sally I am about needles. But, I got it done after a few false starts. Should get better at it from here on out.

I may eventually go with a bi-weekly schedule instead of once a week. I really felt a lack of energy today, especially compared to how I was feeling days 1-4 after the last injection.