Looking to buy my first ATV

[RoadToRecovery]

I have never owned a quad or a dirt bike, only a street bike and I am looking to buy one. I know absolutely nothing about quads and I am looking to pick up a relatively older one just to mess around on. I was looking at a 2001 Yamaha Raptor 660 but the guy never got back to me so I figured it wasnt meant to be. For those of you experienced in ATVs could you please help me out in choosing one?

[l2elapse]

where do you live?

[Phate]

I have never owned a quad or a dirt bike, only a street bike and I am looking to buy one. I know absolutely nothing about quads and I am looking to pick up a relatively older one just to mess around on. I was looking at a 2001 Yamaha Raptor 660 but the guy never got back to me so I figured it wasnt meant to be. For those of you experienced in ATVs could you please help me out in choosing one?

i used to race quads, are you looking for something to upgrade in the future, or do you want something with alot of pop right off the bat?

would you prefer 2 or 4 stroke?

[RoadToRecovery]

where do you live?

Long Island NY

[RoadToRecovery]

i used to race quads, are you looking for something to upgrade in the future, or do you want something with alot of pop right off the bat?

would you prefer 2 or 4 stroke?

I would prefer something with some power right off the bat. I want to buy used being that I really dont see a sense in paying 8 grand for something new to get the same out of something a decade older. I dont plan on racing or anything like that, just messing around on trails and in the snow for the winter. Thats why I thought the raptor would be a good choice. But then again, I know nothing about quads.

[Phate]

I would prefer something with some power right off the bat. I want to buy used being that I really dont see a sense in paying 8 grand for something new to get the same out of something a decade older. I dont plan on racing or anything like that, just messing around on trails and in the snow for the winter. Thats why I thought the raptor would be a good choice. But then again, I know nothing about quads.

then the raptor 660 is good, so is the suzuki Z400, in the 2 stroke category the banshee is a beast as is the quadzilla(if you can find one)

check out this site, it has good detailed reviews for most things
http://www.atvriders.com/atvreviews/...de-review.html

[RoadToRecovery]

Thanks for the tip phate.

Would you say the raptor is one of the more powerful quads? The issue I had in the past with my bikes - I bought small, got used to it and craved more from it so I bought a bigger bike. Is this something that I will experience with the 660?

[Phate]

Thanks for the tip phate.

Would you say the raptor is one of the more powerful quads? The issue I had in the past with my bikes - I bought small, got used to it and craved more from it so I bought a bigger bike. Is this something that I will experience with the 660?

Doubtful, the 660 is a beast and you can always throw a couple upgrades and make it alot faster, the banshee has more potential but you'd have to put a good deal of cash into it, i think you will be happy with a 660, but hell, just go down to a yamaha dealership and ask them to let you drive one, they will if you ask

[RoadToRecovery]

Ok awesome. Thanks alot phate.

[Gra]

The rapror is a nice quad. A friend of mine had a 700 with turbo. Fast but useless. Personally I like the 450s better, but I think the raptor can run longer on the oilchange wich? is a plus. But as Phate said, go ride them and see what you like.

[l2elapse]

i have a 350 and its plenty for me but its also for a farm

[Phate]

The rapror is a nice quad. A friend of mine had a 700 with turbo. Fast but useless. Personally I like the 450s better, but I think the raptor can run longer on the oilchange wich? is a plus. But as Phate said, go ride them and see what you like.

yeah, when you throw a turbo(a friend of mine took one out of a van in a junkyard, cost around 40$ and we fabricated it to his engine) they become so fast that they are horrible for trail riding since the powerband is so peaky, i'd be afraid of going around a turn and having it kick in and throw me off the trail

the only drawback to the bigger quads, like the raptor, is that they are larger and thus a little hard to control in tight racing conditions, which is why i preferred a lowered 400 or 450, but it's all individual

[paddy155]

2 stroker Banshee IMO.

[RoadToRecovery]

Whats the major difference between the banshee and the raptor stock besides the price tag?

[paddy155]

banshee is a 2 stroke and raptor is a 4.

[RoadToRecovery]

Is there a benefit over a 4 stroke?

[alexISthrowed]

Is there a benefit over a 4 stroke?

Im not an expert but i've always found two strokes to be snappier and quicker.

[Phate]

Is there a benefit over a 4 stroke?

2 stroke means that it completes one thermodynamic cycle in 2 strokes(a combustion and compression stroke), while a 4 stroke takes 4 strokes to complete one thermodynamic cycle

this results in the 2 stroke being more efficient and thus producing more power, they are characterized by having a high pitched sound and a much more intense powerband, they generally require less maintenance due to less moving parts than a 4 stroke

4 strokes are smoother, have a deeper, rumbling sound, and due to the advancements in technology can compete with 2 strokes nowadays


here's a good article on itt

How the Engines Work

"Stroke" refers to the movement of the piston in the engine. 2 Stroke means one stroke in each direction. A 2 stoke engine will have a compression stroke followed by an explosion of the compressed fuel. On the return stroke new fuel mixture is inserted into the cylinder.

A 4 stroke engine has 1 compression stroke and 1 exhaust stoke. Each is followed by a return stroke. The compression stroke compresses the fuel air mixture prior to the gas explosion. The exhaust stroke simply pushes the burnt gases out the exhaust.

A 4 stroke engine usually has a distributor that supplies a spark to the cylinder only when its piston is near TDC (top dead center) on the fuel compression stroke, ie. one spark every two turns of the crank shaft. Some 4 stroke engines do away with the distributor and make sparks every turn of the crank. This means a spark happens in a cylinder that just has burnt gasses in it which just means the sparkplug wears out faster.

Animated picture goodness showing examples of these engines can be found at carbibles.com.
A Common List of Advantages and Disadvantages

Advantages of 2 Stroke Engines:
- Two-stroke engines do not have valves, simplifying their construction.
- Two-stroke engines fire once every revolution (four-stroke engines fire once every other revolution). This gives two-stroke engines a significant power boost.
- Two-stroke engines are lighter, and cost less to manufacture.
- Two-stroke engines have the potential for about twice the power in the same size because there are twice as many power strokes per revolution.

Disadvantages of 2 Stroke Engines:
- Two-stroke engines don't live as long as four-stroke engines. The lack of a dedicated lubrication system means that the parts of a two-stroke engine wear-out faster. Two-stroke engines require a mix of oil in with the gas to lubricate the crankshaft, connecting rod and cylinder walls.
- Two-stroke oil can be expensive. Mixing ratio is about 4 ounces per gallon of gas: burning about a gallon of oil every 1,000 miles.
- Two-stroke engines do not use fuel efficiently, yielding fewer miles per gallon.
- Two-stroke engines produce more pollution.
From:
-- The combustion of the oil in the gas. The oil makes all two-stroke engines smoky to some extent, and a badly worn two-stroke engine can emit more oily smoke.
-- Each time a new mix of air/fuel is loaded into the combustion chamber, part of it leaks out through the exhaust port.
Clearing the Air

Michael Harrison from the DeepScience BIGENZ team has this to say:
Most of what is written on advantages and disadvantages of 2 strokes Vs 4 strokes is not actually correct.

Take for example the lubrication issue of 2 stroke engines, sure small chainsaw engines may have the oil mixed with the fuel but this is not a direct result of the engine being a 2 stroke, this is just a result of someone designing a very simple engine. look at any large Caterpillar, or Detroit 2 stroke they have conventional oil sumps, oil pumps and full pressure fed lubrication systems and they are 2 stroke!

Also, the argument about valves of 4 strokes versus the reeds and ports of 2 strokes is also incorrect. Sure some simple 2 strokes may use very primative systems to achieve the conrol of fuel/air mixture into the engine and exhaust out of the engine but again this is not a function of them being 2 stroke! I've worked on 2 stroke engines that feature poppet valves in the head (like a standard 4 stroke) - but they are definately 2 stroke - it's just that engines like this are not so much in the public eye - next time an ocean liner (ship) pulls into port check out its 2 stroke, turbo charged, direct injected diesel engine!

Finally, the arguments of simplicity, weight, power to weight, and cost of manufacturing are not a function as such of 2 stroke versus 4 stroke engines. The mistake of most of these commentaries is that they are comparing a simple chainsaw 2 stroke engine with a complex 4 stroke engine from a automobile - not a very fair comparision.

As far as the exhaust emmisions of 2 strokes - check out the Surrich/Orbital 2 stroke design that Mercury outboards are using - this is as clean burning as any 4 stroke.

The ONLY correct comparison of 2 strokes with 4 strokes is that a 2 stroke can (in theory) produce twice the power of a 4 stroke for the same sized engine and the same revs.
That Crazy Snowmobiles Episode Animation

On the highly venerated and awesome TV show, Scrapheap Challenge, at least one episode showed an animation that compared the operation of 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines. Unfortunately it looks like the animator didn't quite understand what was going on and ended up showing the same 2 stroke animation for both except that the 2 stroke animation was played twice as fast. One response defending the animation suggested it was because "that particular 4 stroke engine does fire the spark plug once every revolution."

Michael, however, dismisses that idea saying, "As for the diagram [in the Snowmobiles episode of Scrapheap Challenge] - sure small 4 stroke engines do tend to 'waste fire' the spark plug at the end of the exhaust stroke but this would not cause an explosion as depicted in the diagrams, but again here the idea of 'waste firing' has nothing to do with the 4 stroke cycle, rather it is a result of the simple design of a lawnmower motor. The diagrams should depict the inherant differances of a 2 stroke and 4 stroke engine. Hence one should show a firing every revolution and the other a firing every 2 revolutions."
So Which is Better?

At the end of the day the winner is probably going to be the one that has had more money and technology spent on it. In these days of quick and cheap international production schedules you can't take it for granted that the 4 stroke will be better. So for your particular application, line up the options and make a decision based on what's available, not based on lists that miss the key points of difference.

[CMonkey]

I had a Raptor 700, the thing has torque out the ass, you can pull wheelies easily in any gear. Top speed on mine, stock, was right around 77MPH on a GPS. I sold it, due to the fact, that I just don't have time to ride anymore.

I, personally prefer a 4 stroke over a 2 for trail riding. Much more forgiving, you can bog the hell out of it and it will pull thru, 2 strokes you need to keep the revs up.

[D3m3nt3d]

I used to own a Banshee, crazy power and torque.

[lovbyts]

Forget the 660, the carbs can be a PITA. I had one and I am very mechanical but it was still a PITA. If you want something like that go with the 700 hands down. No maintenance, no carberator, fuel injected.

I have a Raptor 700, YFZ 450, Raptor 350, Predator 90.

If you want to be Quick and jump get the 450. if you want to be fast and climb anything do the 700, add an extended swing arm and climb trees.

[RoadToRecovery]

Im not looking to spend over 4k on a quad though.

[lovbyts]

Then buy one a couple years old. You can still find a Raptor 700 in like new shape for around 4 or a little over if you shop. I got mine for $4500 with to many upgrades to list. I got the YFZ 450 for under $3000, the raptor 350 for around $3500 and the Predator 90 for $1200

Craigslist is your friend....

[RoadToRecovery]

No I mean 4k and anywhere near that lol. I found a 2001 660 for 2500 but I talked the guy down to 1700. I just want something to beat on.

[lovbyts]

Nice. If it runs good good deal. Check your carburetor books for tears, that is the number one thing that goes bad where it bolts on from the air filters. I have some heavy duty boots if you need them. Ill see what else I still have for the 660 around.

[Skully44420]

I'd have to go with the guys saying to get the 700 Raptor...fuel injected unlike the 660 raptor...the 660 can be a bitch to tune.

[kalspic]

look at a yamaha warrior they have a 350cc engine. realtively fast and cam get one for about 2g's. lots of aftermarket parts also. thats my pick.