Need advice please...

[a21547895]

Hey whats up guys, I'm currently 18 and having some hormone problems. I took 1 cycle of prohormones (superdrol clone) about a year and a half ago and I have been having problems since then.

I have taken several blood tests and I have a thyroid problem and low test (been around 250 every time). I am currently on thyroid meds and wondering what I should do next.

What I'm curious about is, do you think its possible that my hormones are still suppressed? Do you think I should try to do a hpta reset protocol? Would it be to late now?

Unfortunately I don't know what my levels were at before so it's hard to say if it's from the prohormones or not, but I don't want to just jump on to trt for the rest of my life.

So what do you guys think, is it possible I'm still shut down? Would it be to late to try clomid/nolva/hcg to try to reset? Or do you think prohormones didn't cause it and I just have shitty hormone levels?

[pittbulldad]

at your age you need to go see a doctor.. just let him know what you have done in the past.. if you are just trying to stimulate your own test production HCG and clomid are the way to go...

if you are looking to do cycles you are too young

[a21547895]

at your age you need to go see a doctor.. just let him know what you have done in the past.. if you are just trying to stimulate your own test production HCG and clomid are the way to go...

if you are looking to do cycles you are too young

I already told my endo, he doesn't know anything about that stuff, so he couldn't comment on whether it caused it or not and no I'm not looking to do any other cycles.

Just want to know if I should try a restart now or if its to late...

[Vettester]

Hey whats up guys, I'm currently 18 and having some hormone problems. I took 1 cycle of prohormones (superdrol clone) about a year and a half ago and I have been having problems since then.

I have taken several blood tests and I have a thyroid problem and low test (been around 250 every time). I am currently on thyroid meds and wondering what I should do next.

What I'm curious about is, do you think its possible that my hormones are still suppressed? Do you think I should try to do a hpta reset protocol? Would it be to late now?

Unfortunately I don't know what my levels were at before so it's hard to say if it's from the prohormones or not, but I don't want to just jump on to trt for the rest of my life.

So what do you guys think, is it possible I'm still shut down? Would it be to late to try clomid/nolva/hcg to try to reset? Or do you think prohormones didn't cause it and I just have shitty hormone levels?

Yes, I think the PH cycle could have blown it for you. You say that you've been having problems "since then," so l Hopefully you can reach out to the other young peeps and share this experience before they make a similar mistake. You don't want to be going on HRT at 18 ... No way. Get with a doctor and tell him straight up what you did, then see if he can put together a PCT program to restore your natty, or at least attempt to. Curious, what's the issue with the Thyroid?

I stress that you get with a physician immediately on this. A doc will need to look at the scope of your whole lab panel, maybe even run an MRI, then help put the pieces back together. Don't take this wrong, but I don't want to see you on this forum ... Not for many years.

[Vettester]

I already told my endo, he doesn't know anything about that stuff, so he couldn't comment on whether it caused it or not and no I'm not looking to do any other cycles.

Just want to know if I should try a restart now or if its to late...

I don't think it's too late! Need to find a doc who does know something.

[a21547895]

Yes, I think the PH cycle could have blown it for you. You say that you've been having problems "since then," so l Hopefully you can reach out to the other young peeps and share this experience before they make a similar mistake. You don't want to be going on HRT at 18 ... No way. Get with a doctor and tell him straight up what you did, then see if he can put together a PCT program to restore your natty, or at least attempt to. Curious, what's the issue with the Thyroid?

I stress that you get with a physician immediately on this. A doc will need to look at the scope of your whole lab panel, maybe even run an MRI, then help put the pieces back together. Don't take this wrong, but I don't want to see you on this forum ... Not for many years.

Conversion problem from t4 to t3.

I am working with someone and with my endo to try to figure this out. I also got a 4 point saliva test done to check cortisol levels and they were all really low so I was put on cortef because the guy I am working with thinks the problem is with my adrenals, adrenal fatigue/insufficiency.

I have had the whole hormone test done, everything else was fine except for having really high DHEA and prenenlone.

Just looking for second opinions, so you think there is a good possibly I am still shut down from the prohormones? Reset protocol a good idea?

[Vettester]

Conversion problem from t4 to t3.

I am working with someone and with my endo to try to figure this out. I also got a 4 point saliva test done to check cortisol levels and they were all really low so I was put on cortef because the guy I am working with thinks the problem is with my adrenals, adrenal fatigue/insufficiency.

I have had the whole hormone test done, everything else was fine except for having really high DHEA and prenenlone.

Just looking for second opinions, so you think there is a good possibly I am still shut down from the prohormones? Reset protocol a good idea?

Did they rule out Addison's?

I look at it more as a restart than a "reset", but YES, I would take that route with doctor supervision opposed to jumping on HRT, as long as the process doesn't complicate conditions or matters any further. Did they run an MRI on the pituitary, no Addison's? Do they know about your PH cycle, and if so do they feel it had a contribution to your condition(s)?

[a21547895]

Did they rule out Addison's?

I look at it more as a restart than a "reset", but YES, I would take that route with doctor supervision opposed to jumping on HRT, as long as the process doesn't complicate conditions or matters any further. Did they run an MRI on the pituitary, no Addison's? Do they know about your PH cycle, and if so do they feel it had a contribution to your condition(s)?

Don't have addisons, they said pituitary was fine, they know about the prohormones but like I said, they don't have a clue as to what they do. My endo thinks I might be missing an enzyme but I did the urine test for that and it showed I wasn't, now he thinks I'm just missing a partial enzyme, unfortunately there is no way of knowing if someone is in fact missing an enzyme. That was just his theory based off the results and that 3 hour stim test thing.

I think I need a restart but I can already tell you there is no way my endo would prescribe what is needed, although he does have an open mind I don't see that as a possibly, unless I can convince him but I don't think there are any studies to help persuade him.

The main reason I came here to post was to see if there was a possibility that the prohormones could shut some one down for this long, anyone seen this happen before?

If I was to pursue this restart would it be like a normal PCT or something different for my scenario?

[EZ E]

The use of Clomid for primary hypogonadism and HCG for secondary is well documented in medical literature. Your endo should be well aware of the uses in men for Clomid and HCG. If not, you need a new endo. Nolvadex, as far as I understand it, isn't prescribed in the US for anything related to hormone levels in men so you probably won't be able to get this prescribed.

Good luck.

[Vettester]

Man this is a tough thread for me. I've had to go back and forth a few times on this. It's real sad to here someone who's 18 going through this type of mess.

I'm torn on this one my friend. If there's an underlying condition, then it's got to be discovered and dealt with before we go telling you to do some sort of PCT. On the other hand, your Endo sounds like a real winner if he is discounting your stint with PH's. You say he is open minded, but I stand to disagree if he's overlooking an obvious clue to why this is happening to you. Unless he's working on some genetic/hereditary trail or some other signal, I don't quite get why he's hooked on the enzyme diagnosis, then leaving it at a partial; meaning "unknown". I don't know your situation, but if you can get another doctor in the loop please consider doing so right away.

Yes, you can be shutdown this long and all your life. When you're shut down, well ... You're shut down. IMO, the pituitary can't be running optimal if your test score is 250, you have adrenal issues, + thyroid conditions. On your lab work, did they check your LH, FSH, & TSH? If so can you share the results?

Breaks my heart man. I've got a son that's a few years older than you, so it touches close to home. Let us know.

[a21547895]

I'll post up labs later on when I get the chance...

But I just wanted to ask another question...

My endo says I am primary, and this is another thing that confuses me because from my knowledge if someone responds to hcg than they are not primary, am I correct or no?

Before I was just put on hcg monotherapy by another doc and for the first couple blood tests my test levels were good, they went up to 700 and I felt good and then they dropped back to the 250 range, apparently I became immune to the hcg or something?

Since I did respond to the hcg, that rules out primary right?

Still trying to learn about all this....

[pittbulldad]

The use of Clomid for primary hypogonadism and HCG for secondary is well documented in medical literature. Your endo should be well aware of the uses in men for Clomid and HCG. If not, you need a new endo. Nolvadex, as far as I understand it, isn't prescribed in the US for anything related to hormone levels in men so you probably won't be able to get this prescribed.

Good luck.

I have a scrip for nolvadex.. but i'm old and my balls were shriveling up

[a21547895]

I'll post up labs later on when I get the chance...

But I just wanted to ask another question...

My endo says I am primary, and this is another thing that confuses me because from my knowledge if someone responds to hcg than they are not primary, am I correct or no?

Before I was just put on hcg monotherapy by another doc and for the first couple blood tests my test levels were good, they went up to 700 and I felt good and then they dropped back to the 250 range, apparently I became immune to the hcg or something?

Since I did respond to the hcg, that rules out primary right?

Still trying to learn about all this....

Can anyone comment on the secondary vs primary thing in my situation?

[Vettester]

Primary is in the testicles, secondary in the pituitary. That's why I was asking for your LH & FSH score.

When you were taking the HCG, how much and how often were you taking it?

Also, what leads this doctor to think you're primary. Did you get kicked in the nuts by a bull or something? Did he check to see if you had a low sperm count or leydig cell issues? There's got to be a reason. The obvious trail of evidence is your previous cycle of PH's. You need a doctor who has a handle on this!

[a21547895]

Primary is in the testicles, secondary in the pituitary. That's why I was asking for your LH & FSH score.

When you were taking the HCG, how much and how often were you taking it?

Also, what leads this doctor to think you're primary. Did you get kicked in the nuts by a bull or something? Did he check to see if you had a low sperm count or leydig cell issues? There's got to be a reason. The obvious trail of evidence is your previous cycle of PH's. You need a doctor who has a handle on this!

Congenital adrenal hyperplasia is what he thinks.

I did get hit in the nuts, well nut actually. My left nut got smoked by a 90+mph fastball lol.....kid foul tipped it and it went straight down and kinda pinched my cup on my nut, couldn't walk for a week lol.

I guess I could be partially primary, left nut doesn't work to well and right one works fine?

But again I'm just confused because if someone is primary they won't respond at all to hcg and I did.

I'm just desperate right now, I have zero energy and feel extremely fatigued, can't concentrate on anything and I am just so tempted to go on testosterone just so I can get my life back but I don't want to if there is a chance I can succeed on a reset protocol.

I'll try to look for the LH/FSH tomorrow, can't seem to find it.

[EZ E]

If you are primary, the issue is with the testes and you WILL respond to HCG. If it is secondary, it is with the pituitary and you will resond to clomid/nolvadex.

I had is backwards in my post.

[a21547895]

Lh 5.0 | 1.5-9
fsh 2.3 | 2.6-11.0

[Vettester]

OK, unless I'm missing something your FSH is low, which should indicate an issue with the pituitary.

Thanks for sharing the information about getting your nuts smoked by a baseball. Maybe that variable is being factored by your doctor. If there's damage down there then restarting might complicate the matter.

Bottom line, more so now that you mentioned the baseball accident, get with a doctor who can successfully diagnose you and get you back on track. Leaving it as a partial enzyme as the cause doesn't sound convincing to me. I'm not a doc, but the low FSH gives me suspicion to look in the brain. If someone has other experiences with this that differ please share.

BTW, you said the left nut doesn't work too well, but the right is fine. Can you explain that? Is it a pain issue or something? Personally, I don't know which one of mine is working or not. They're both there and both taking credit when the job is done

[a21547895]

BTW, you said the left nut doesn't work too well, but the right is fine. Can you explain that? Is it a pain issue or something? Personally, I don't know which one of mine is working or not. They're both there and both taking credit when the job is done

lol that was just speculation, I was just saying maybe my left testicle doesn't work to well since it got smoked. But there is no pain down there except for when I think about it lol