*Beginner cycle - 6months research - *ARE WE READY?*

[flexandex]

Evening folks,

Me and a friend have been doing research for a long time and have decided we are ready for our first cycle.

We will be following the 'beginner cycle' of:
Cycle
weeks 1-12 test-e 500mg
weeks 1-5 dbol 40mg /ed

Pct
weeks 1-4 clomid 100mg /ed
weeks 1-4 nolva 20mg /ed
weeks 1-4 L-dex 0.25 /ed

Our stats are as follows
Myself: 5'9 178 11% 18years old Edit: I wish i said 21, lol , lets pretend i said 21...
Friend: 6'1 195 15% 18years old

I've been training for around 3years hopelessly, wasn't untill march last year i took it seriously and put on around 30pounds of LBM.

Our diet will look like this:
(Protein totals do not include non-complete proteins)

Meal 1
1 1/2 cups oats
Protein shake (600ml milk + 60g whey)
105C/30F/80P

Meal 2
Chicken breast/Steak/Prawns/Tuna (300g)
Whole grain bread 3 slices
45C/>10F/60P

WORKOUT

Meal 3
Protein shake (600ml milk +60g whey)
Juice
60C/18F/80P

Meal 4
Crumbed Chicken
80C/>10F/40P

Meal 5
Fish / flax oil (15g)
Peanuts (50g)
Ham (200g)
>10C/45F/40P

Meal 6

Protein shake (600ml milk + 40g casein)
30C/0F/65P

TOTALS:
330G Carbohydrates / 1320cals
95G Lipids / 855 cals
365G Protein / 1460cals

3600Cals Per day.
This diet is an example, things will change to meet the macro requirements but the macros should stay pretty well within those bounds.

Nowww... if you've made it this far, thank you very much. I have some questions.

1. Is it okay to extend the dbol from 1-4 to 1-5?
2. Should we be on more than 3600cals during a cycle?
3. Do you think we are ready for this cycle?
4. Is the PCT adequete?
5. Any recommendations for a liver support?

Any comments are welcomed! we will take on board commments such as 'too young', 'too small' etc, but please, if you want to make a comment such as this.. add something of substance that would help us aswell.

THANKS FOR READING MY NOVEL!

[G4R]

Too young my friend. Your natural test levels are through the roof right now. You dont need steroids, just a dedicated diet, and workout regimen. Stay on those for some years.

Read these two threads please:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=15197

[urlhttp://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=398146[/url]

*Thank you Big, my link was bad ^

[Big]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=398146

[Dr Pepper]

It looks like you have done alot of research which is better than most people do your age. Il b the first to say though, your to young to start using aas... Your diet could do with a lil tweaking. Post your diet in the diet forum and see what they say. Your to young now but wait till your a little bit older 25 or so. Keep up the good research though!

[flexandex]

Too young my friend. Your natural test levels are through the roof right now. You dont need steroids, just a dedicated diet, and workout regimen. Stay on those for some years.

Read these two threads please:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=15197

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=1#post4316957

Thanks for your concern, i apreciate it. We know we are young, and this could be considered silly and foolhardy. Basically we know where we want to be, and want to be there faster.. steroids can help us do that.

Is there any chance you would mind awnsering the other few questions i had?

thanks for your response!!

[flexandex]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=398146

Yeah, i've read the thread, and i know i look like a jackass because everything im saying goes against it. I've read ALOT of your posts on this board, and you seem to be a valued and respected member. I have come to this board BEFORE my cycle asking for advice, one thing i have noticed is that there are 18-21yr olds with LESS research LESS LBM and LESS training time than i have, yet receive awnsers to their questions due to the simple fact they'v already LAUNCHED in.

If you could take the time to awsner a few of my questions.. or give any other advice i would greatly apreciate it. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, i understand and thanks for the link!

It looks like you have done alot of research which is better than most people do your age. Il b the first to say though, your to young to start using aas... Your diet could do with a lil tweaking. Post your diet in the diet forum and see what they say. Your to young now but wait till your a little bit older 25 or so. Keep up the good research though!

Thanks for the kind words. I will post my diet up there, thanks.

[BiggerByTheDay]

Too young my friend. Your natural test levels are through the roof right now. You dont need steroids, just a dedicated diet, and workout regimen. Stay on those for some years.

Read these two threads please:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=15197

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=1#post4316957

Agreed. You both are too young.

But I must applaud your research and the time you took to write out your stats, diet, routine experience, etc.. Therefore, from a simple glance, I feel you both have a smart head on your shoulders and will put them off for a few years. Your natty test levels are through the roof. Your growth plates may not be sealed therefore you may stunt your growth. When I was 18, I was 5'10. Now, I am 20 and stand at 6'1. My father is 6'7 and my brothers are all around 6'3. Therefore, I may have an inch or more to grow myself. Saying that, you should hold off for a few more years. You could stunt your height a few inches, damage your HPTA, and possibly have to be put on TRT if you start at your age.

[Shredded1]

Agreed. You both are too young.

But I must applaud your research and the time you took to write out your stats, diet, routine experience, etc.. Therefore, from a simple glance, I feel you both have a smart head on your shoulders and will put them off for a few years. Your natty test levels are through the roof. Your growth plates may not be sealed therefore you may stunt your growth. When I was 18, I was 5'10. Now, I am 20 and stand at 6'1. My father is 6'7 and my brothers are all around 6'3. Therefore, I may have an inch or more to grow myself. Saying that, you should hold off for a few more years. You could stunt your height a few inches, damage your HPTA, and possibly have to be put on TRT if you start at your age.

BINGO, one of my buddies in hs did that, rest of his family is 6' + and now hes only 5'7" because he used and the estro from no pct closed his growth plates early.

[flexandex]

Agreed. You both are too young.

But I must applaud your research and the time you took to write out your stats, diet, routine experience, etc.. Therefore, from a simple glance, I feel you both have a smart head on your shoulders and will put them off for a few years. Your natty test levels are through the roof. Your growth plates may not be sealed therefore you may stunt your growth. When I was 18, I was 5'10. Now, I am 20 and stand at 6'1. My father is 6'7 and my brothers are all around 6'3. Therefore, I may have an inch or more to grow myself. Saying that, you should hold off for a few more years. You could stunt your height a few inches, damage your HPTA, and possibly have to be put on TRT if you start at your age.

Again thank you for the kind words. Haha i am actually a giant in my family! The tallest by far, even through my extended family. My mother is 5'2 and my father is 5'3. My brother is 5'5 and my sister is 5'4. I really hope i can get another few inchs though, i would be VERY happy at 5'11 haha!

Well it seems as though the only responses i will recieve are of the too young nature, i did expect this and understand the sentiment entirely. I know the potential risks in and out, backwards and fowards.

I am not completely certain wether i will do them. Perhaps i should wait until feb next year, i'll be 19 1/2, im not sure.

If anyone is willing to awnser the questions i do have, i would be more than grateful.

[flexandex]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=435423

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=435547

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=435447

I may be out of line with this, but i'll risk it..

I spent 3minutes looking and found those 3 threads where people who shouldn't be cycling, have done zero research and recieved atleast some comments / advice towards their goals / actions.

could anyone awsner the few questions i have?

thanks either way!

[marcus300]

Do you want to run the risk of seriously damaging your HPTA and having low test for life? do you understand what that will do to someone so young? you wont be able to get erections, you will have depression, small testicles etc etc I can go on but surely just those sides ive mention should make you stop and think.

If you start steroids before your body as stopped growing and you shut down your own bodies hormonal system you will have a huge chance you will get these sides, and they not for a couple of months, its for life.

If you cant build muscle tissue now at your age with the test you have floating around, your wasting your time taking gear, your diet is rubbish and its all about food, learn how to eat and forget steroids, you will thank me trust me

[VanillaGorilla1]

Do you want to run the risk of seriously damaging your HPTA and having low test for life? do you understand what that will do to someone so young? you wont be able to get erections, you will have depression, small testicles etc etc I can go on but surely just those sides ive mention should make you stop and think.

If you start steroids before your body as stopped growing and you shut down your own bodies hormonal system you will have a huge chance you will get these sides, and they not for a couple of months, its for life.

It's good to inform members, especially young ones, of the potential risks that come with the use of AAS. However, to speak of these potential risks as facts, is foolish. When you say "you will have depression", you're saying it is a guaranteed side effect, which is completely untrue. You may suffer from depression, you may not. It may be mild, it may be severe. You may never feel happier because of steroids. You never know.

I'm not advocating the use of steroids by 18 year olds, but I feel it's necessary to approach a situation like this with honesty. And to try to use "scare tactics", as some members seem to do, isn't the best way to educate people on steroids.

Instead of telling them exactly what side effects they will have, tell them about the side effects they may have. And which one's are reversable, and which are very uncommon. It's just unfair to lie to a person by telling them they will get this and that by using steroids prematurely.

To the OP: You're 18, so you are a tad young. But you've obviously done your research. I'd recommend reading up a bit more, start forming your own opinions on this stuff, and really get your diet and training down. After doing that, I'd say go for it. My first cycle was almost identical to yours and I had fantastic results (at the age of 21).

[flexandex]

Do you want to run the risk of seriously damaging your HPTA and having low test for life? do you understand what that will do to someone so young? you wont be able to get erections, you will have depression, small testicles etc etc I can go on but surely just those sides ive mention should make you stop and think.

If you start steroids before your body as stopped growing and you shut down your own bodies hormonal system you will have a huge chance you will get these sides, and they not for a couple of months, its for life.

If you cant build muscle tissue now at your age with the test you have floating around, your wasting your time taking gear, your diet is rubbish and its all about food, learn how to eat and forget steroids, you will thank me trust me

Ofcourse i can build muscle tissue at this age, and i make some of the fastest gains in my gym. I do resent the comment about my diet, a 40/40/20 split with 3600 cals and 350+ protein, is a rubbish diet? 3 whole food sources 3 shakes? If you would, PLEASE enlighten me as to a better diet. This is one of the areas i am not too sure about, how much to actually raise my cals whilst on cycle?

I have done enough research to know that most of what you have said scare tactics, and i am thankful for the sentiment. I understand you are looking out for the younger guys on this forum and i believe you play an important role. Sometimes though, it is best to respect a member and treat him as your equal instead of taking a wholeheartedly condecending tone. That results in the member disregarding 99% of what is said, this is just some advice for you, so that you can better help members in the future as I can see that is something that you are very passionate about.

well, it seems the only way to get the awnsers i want is to repost this thread with a stated age of 24, sad, but thats fine.

[flexandex]

It's good to inform members, especially young ones, of the potential risks that come with the use of AAS. However, to speak of these potential risks as facts, is foolish. When you say "you will have depression", you're saying it is a guaranteed side effect, which is completely untrue. You may suffer from depression, you may not. It may be mild, it may be severe. You may never feel happier because of steroids. You never know.

I'm not advocating the use of steroids by 18 year olds, but I feel it's necessary to approach a situation like this with honesty. And to try to use "scare tactics", as some members seem to do, isn't the best way to educate people on steroids.

Instead of telling them exactly what side effects they will have, tell them about the side effects they may have. And which one's are reversable, and which are very uncommon. It's just unfair to lie to a person by telling them they will get this and that by using steroids prematurely.

To the OP: You're 18, so you are a tad young. But you've obviously done your research. I'd recommend reading up a bit more, start forming your own opinions on this stuff, and really get your diet and training down. After doing that, I'd say go for it. My first cycle was almost identical to yours and I had fantastic results (at the age of 21).

Thanks man, i agree with you on most of your points. Yeah, it seems to be the overwhelming response. Perhaps i am wrong, perhaps i am stupid - there are alot of perhaps in this world.

ill take this on the chin and move foward with my research; once again i thank all the members for their contributions and please know that i take all concerns on board.

[dec11]

It's good to inform members, especially young ones, of the potential risks that come with the use of AAS. However, to speak of these potential risks as facts, is foolish. When you say "you will have depression", you're saying it is a guaranteed side effect, which is completely untrue. You may suffer from depression, you may not. It may be mild, it may be severe. You may never feel happier because of steroids. You never know.

I'm not advocating the use of steroids by 18 year olds, but I feel it's necessary to approach a situation like this with honesty. And to try to use "scare tactics", as some members seem to do, isn't the best way to educate people on steroids.

Instead of telling them exactly what side effects they will have, tell them about the side effects they may have. And which one's are reversable, and which are very uncommon. It's just unfair to lie to a person by telling them they will get this and that by using steroids prematurely.

To the OP: You're 18, so you are a tad young. But you've obviously done your research. I'd recommend reading up a bit more, start forming your own opinions on this stuff, and really get your diet and training down. After doing that, I'd say go for it. My first cycle was almost identical to yours and I had fantastic results (at the age of 21).

oh really? your closing lines suggest otherwise you plank

[G4R]

It's good to inform members, especially young ones, of the potential risks that come with the use of AAS. However, to speak of these potential risks as facts, is foolish. When you say "you will have depression", you're saying it is a guaranteed side effect, which is completely untrue. You may suffer from depression, you may not. It may be mild, it may be severe. You may never feel happier because of steroids. You never know.

I'm not advocating the use of steroids by 18 year olds, but I feel it's necessary to approach a situation like this with honesty. And to try to use "scare tactics", as some members seem to do, isn't the best way to educate people on steroids.

Instead of telling them exactly what side effects they will have, tell them about the side effects they may have. And which one's are reversable, and which are very uncommon. It's just unfair to lie to a person by telling them they will get this and that by using steroids prematurely.

To the OP: You're 18, so you are a tad young. But you've obviously done your research. I'd recommend reading up a bit more, start forming your own opinions on this stuff, and really get your diet and training down. After doing that, I'd say go for it. My first cycle was almost identical to yours and I had fantastic results (at the age of 21).

Marcus never said that he would get depression, he said that if he were to do steroids at this young of a age, he COULD damage his HPTA, and IF, he damaged his HPTA, THEN, those side affects will come with it.

[flexandex]

It's good to inform members, especially young ones, of the potential risks that come with the use of AAS. However, to speak of these potential risks as facts, is foolish. When you say "you will have depression", you're saying it is a guaranteed side effect, which is completely untrue. You may suffer from depression, you may not. It may be mild, it may be severe. You may never feel happier because of steroids. You never know.

I'm not advocating the use of steroids by 18 year olds, but I feel it's necessary to approach a situation like this with honesty. And to try to use "scare tactics", as some members seem to do, isn't the best way to educate people on steroids.

Instead of telling them exactly what side effects they will have, tell them about the side effects they may have. And which one's are reversable, and which are very uncommon. It's just unfair to lie to a person by telling them they will get this and that by using steroids prematurely.

To the OP: You're 18, so you are a tad young. But you've obviously done your research. I'd recommend reading up a bit more, start forming your own opinions on this stuff, and really get your diet and training down. After doing that, I'd say go for it. My first cycle was almost identical to yours and I had fantastic results (at the age of 21).

oh really? your closing lines suggest otherwise you plank

huh.. whos the plank?

[stevey_6t9]

huh.. whos the plank?

you have been repeatably told your to young, if you dont like the answers you are given then join another board, your wasting your time here.

[dec11]

huh.. whos the plank?

look at who i quoted and have an intelligent guess. then read stevey's post

[calgarian]

Damn too late u guys said it all

[flexandex]

you have been repeatably told your to young, if you dont like the answers you are given then join another board, your wasting your time here.

Nothing constructive.

look at who i quoted and have an intelligent guess. then read stevey's post

Look at what was bolded, he wasn't advocating steroids at the age of 18, he was advocating a moderate view on the matter, something that could help alot of young guys on this forum.

Damn too late u guys said it all

Nothing constructive.

[ArmyMan04]

Damn too late u guys said it all

lol agreed...

but just in case you need another person to tell you you are crazy and could seriously hurt yourself...



Flex man seriously... I know you want all this stuff... bc it looks so great... but think about life later... not life right now... believe the advice from the senior members (and others) here... its not worth it...

Good luck bro... youll prolly won't listen...

[dec11]

Nothing constructive.


Look at what was bolded, he wasn't advocating steroids at the age of 18, he was advocating a moderate view on the matter, something that could help alot of young guys on this forum.


Nothing constructive.

are you blind? he states 'go for it'

[Big]

you have been repeatably told your to young, if you dont like the answers you are given then join another board, your wasting your time here.

I think this is quite constructive. you are beginning to waste a lot of people's time here. we don't advocate children using steroids.

[Vullfromsc]

steroids should be used to allow people to get past their genetic potential. you and your friend have not reached your genetic potentials by far, so why use them? sounds like you are just looking for a short cut

you could get great gains without steroids, it would just take a little longer (maybe not even that much longer if you are truly dedicated). is your impatience really worth the risk?

i could see why you would want to do this IF you were genetic freaks going to play D1 ball, but you aren't by a long shot. there is no point, really.. there is no point

EDIT: to answer your question, you are not ready

[Igifuno]

flexandex, I know its frustrating when you're not getting the answers you want.. no one here is trying to be antagonistic by not giving you answers, I promise you that. The guidance you're receiving is by experienced people with great knowledge of aas and what the short and long term effects can be if not used properly.. and when I say not properly, that includes using them at an improper age. If these memebers didn't give a rats ass about people, they wouldn't have even bothered with you in the first place. Use common sense and think bro.. fact is, your test levels are through the roof! You're freaking practically on test now at your age (so to speak) - naturally! Why on god's green earth would you intentionally suppress that right now? Do you know how many people would love to be in the position you're in right now and have that choice again? Its your call dude but the reason people aren't giving you straight answers is becuase its wrong for you right now. Don't eff it up. And if you do.. well, you won't be the first and you won't be the last..

Peace,

IG

[jordann]

BINGO, one of my buddies in hs did that, rest of his family is 6' + and now hes only 5'7" because he used and the estro from no pct closed his growth plates early.

Any scientific evidence supporting this? Because I find it hard to believe.

[calgarian]

Nothing constructive.


Look at what was bolded, he wasn't advocating steroids at the age of 18, he was advocating a moderate view on the matter, something that could help alot of young guys on this forum.


Nothing constructive.

ok smart ass.....the answer is NO u are not ready. ur testosterone is already in over drive (dont u want to hump 24/7?) as Marcus said it will perm demage ur HPTA and u will have problem rest of ur life is it worth it??? IMO No its not . learn to eat and lift dont do cycle till u r 24 constructive enough???

[VanillaGorilla1]

oh really? your closing lines suggest otherwise you plank

I said I'm not advocating the use. However, I can't stop the guy. So instead of saying "dont do it, don't do it, this will happen to you omg omg omg", I say just do your research, be safe, and know what the possible effects may be. If all those are in check, then go for it.

[flexandex]

lol agreed...

but just in case you need another person to tell you you are crazy and could seriously hurt yourself...



Flex man seriously... I know you want all this stuff... bc it looks so great... but think about life later... not life right now... believe the advice from the senior members (and others) here... its not worth it...

Good luck bro... youll prolly won't listen...

Thanks for your input.

are you blind? he states 'go for it'

You are ignoring the context, theres no point to flame over it man. Calm down, im letting it go. thanks for your imput in my thread!

I think this is quite constructive. you are beginning to waste a lot of people's time here. we don't advocate children using steroids.

Please don't let me waste your time, spend it elsewhere if that is your wish.

steroids should be used to allow people to get past their genetic potential. you and your friend have not reached your genetic potentials by far, so why use them? sounds like you are just looking for a short cut

you could get great gains without steroids, it would just take a little longer (maybe not even that much longer if you are truly dedicated). is your impatience really worth the risk?

i could see why you would want to do this IF you were genetic freaks going to play D1 ball, but you aren't by a long shot. there is no point, really.. there is no point

EDIT: to answer your question, you are not ready

Thats exactly what we are looking for, steroids are a way for me to reach a size that i feel comfortable with in 3months rather than 12. That is the simple fact, wether the risk vs reward ratio is adequete is what my current research is geared towards.
Thanks for your input.

flexandex, I know its frustrating when you're not getting the answers you want.. no one here is trying to be antagonistic by not giving you answers, I promise you that. The guidance you're receiving is by experienced people with great knowledge of aas and what the short and long term effects can be if not used properly.. and when I say not properly, that includes using them at an improper age. If these memebers didn't give a rats ass about people, they wouldn't have even bothered with you in the first place. Use common sense and think bro.. fact is, your test levels are through the roof! You're freaking practically on test now at your age (so to speak) - naturally! Why on god's green earth would you intentionally suppress that right now? Do you know how many people would love to be in the position you're in right now and have that choice again? Its your call dude but the reason people aren't giving you straight answers is becuase its wrong for you right now. Don't eff it up. And if you do.. well, you won't be the first and you won't be the last..

Peace,

IG

Tvym for your well thought out and compasionate response. I agree with you on many of your points. Thanks again.

ok smart ass.....the answer is NO u are not ready. ur testosterone is already in over drive (dont u want to hump 24/7?) as Marcus said it will perm demage ur HPTA and u will have problem rest of ur life is it worth it??? IMO No its not . learn to eat and lift dont do cycle till u r 24 constructive enough???

Sorry for that comment, i was becoming frustrated with people only awsnering 1/5 questions. I understand why that is, but at the same time i would really apreciate some input on the rest of my queries.

Ya'll seem to think that if you awnser them, my reserach is done and ima fly out and order roids tomorrow. Not the case at all, i still dont have a valid supplier sourced, and i need to get my food and protein in order.
Again, i apologize and thanks for your input.

I said I'm not advocating the use. However, I can't stop the guy. So instead of saying "dont do it, don't do it, this will happen to you omg omg omg", I say just do your research, be safe, and know what the possible effects may be. If all those are in check, then go for it.

I agree. You a miscer, brah?

[G4R]

It seems like you are going to run a cycle regardless of what anyone says. I have to ask, why start a thread asking "are we ready?" when all you wanted to hear was people telling you to go ahead an do it.

Steroids are not something to just play around with. You are putting your health on the line. Know what you are doing and be smart about it. Wait a few years.

[Big]

It seems like you are going to run a cycle regardless of what anyone says. I have to ask, why start a thread asking "are we ready?" when all you wanted to hear was people telling you to go ahead an do it.

Steroids are not something to just play around with. You are putting your health on the line. Know what you are doing and be smart about it. Wait a few years.

well J at this point he's bordering on being a troll. He asks "are we ready" and gets overwhelming responses telling him "no" with the exception of some other children on the board, yet apparently feels a need to keep the thread alive.

[flexandex]

It seems like you are going to run a cycle regardless of what anyone says. I have to ask, why start a thread asking "are we ready?" when all you wanted to hear was people telling you to go ahead an do it.

Steroids are not something to just play around with. You are putting your health on the line. Know what you are doing and be smart about it. Wait a few years.

Not true at all, the response in this thread has at the very least put off my cycle for the forseeable future. When i do complete my cycle i want to run a log, here, or somewhere, so that i can have a few experienced users help me with any problems that may arise. Its obvious the vets on this site will not help someone "do the wrong thing, the right way".

well J at this point he's bordering on being a troll. He asks "are we ready" and gets overwhelming responses telling him "no" with the exception of some other children on the board, yet apparently feels a need to keep the thread alive.

You are a frustrating individual, mabey just as stuborn as me! . The only reason i've kept this thread alive is i had a faint glimmer of hope someone may awnser the other questions i had, obviously not. And thats ya'lls perogitive.

I'll leave this thread here then, respond to anything else thats posted and then call it a day.

special thanks to going4ripped, vanilla gorilla and igfuno. Your posts were deffinitely most helpful.

[Big]

if you promise to end this thread I'll answer all of them, note that you could have answered all of them yourself in about 10 minutes research yet this thread has dragged on and on.

1. Is it okay to extend the dbol from 1-4 to 1-5? I wouldn't
2. Should we be on more than 3600cals during a cycle? post your diet in the diet forum for a critique
3. Do you think we are ready for this cycle? obviously not
4. Is the PCT adequete? I list a highly recommended pct almost every day, I think I've listed it twice so far tonight
clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20
5. Any recommendations for a liver support? liv52

[flexandex]

if you promise to end this thread I'll answer all of them, note that you could have answered all of them yourself in about 10 minutes research yet this thread has dragged on and on.

1. Is it okay to extend the dbol from 1-4 to 1-5? I wouldn't
2. Should we be on more than 3600cals during a cycle? post your diet in the diet forum for a critique
3. Do you think we are ready for this cycle? obviously not
4. Is the PCT adequete? I list a highly recommended pct almost every day, I think I've listed it twice so far tonight
clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20
5. Any recommendations for a liver support? liv52

haha, same could be said if they were just awnsered. Thanks man, i apreciate it.

just to set your minds at ease, i think we'v decided to postpone the cycle, for atleast this year.

i'll be lurking though!

[Gramao]

A couple of weeks reading the forums, you would've got the answers your looking for.... lol

[dec11]

I said I'm not advocating the use. However, I can't stop the guy. So instead of saying "dont do it, don't do it, this will happen to you omg omg omg", I say just do your research, be safe, and know what the possible effects may be. If all those are in check, then go for it.

tht is advocating a youngster to use no matter what way you butter it up, just because he researches etc doesnt mean he should be doing it, too young period. some of you kids are real thick to get through to

[dezza6969]

I kinda feel for the op here, he shouldn't cycle for sure but he's obviously not a troll and has been pretty respectful in his response to critism which is a good sign.

Stevey how would have you felt if some one said this to you-

you have been repeatably told your to young, if you dont like the answers you are given then join another board, your wasting your time here.

when you posted this less than a year ago-

Well to start off i've been training for the best part of 4 years and been contemplating on taking my first cycle of AAS. I want to do as much research and gain as much knowledge as possible before even doing a cycle, and would like some opinions. Before i got flamed here i know i am young, and if i decide to take AAS it will be in the next year or two. If anyone would care to comment on my diet below or proposed cycle please feel free.

Age: 18
Weight: 185
Height: 5'9
BF%: 12

Diet:
meal 1) 2 scoops whey protein isolate, cup of oats, multi, fish oil, vit C and E and Zinc
meal 2) 250g chicken and cup of rice
meal 3 150g chicken half cup of rice and salad
meal 4) 250 lean red meat one cup of vegetables
meal 5) 200g tuna and cup of pasta
meal 6) (post w/o) 3 scoops protein, 80g glucose, creatine, BCAA's, L-Glutamine, Banana and apple
meal 7) 2 scoops casein protein with 200mL skim milk

Proposed cycle:

Week 1-12 Test E 500mg/week
Pct - Clomid/Nolvadex

Alot of you are going to be raging about my age, but before you make asumptions, if i decide to take the plunge i will wait till i am 19 or 20. I would also want to know peoples opinions regarding taking AAS and 'permanent' effects on the endocrine system. Id appreciate help on making a good decision, thanks.

and at 19 you've ended up doin a cyp n prop cycle anyway. Hypicrosy is very un-Australian except in politics where it is staple.

But to flex honestly mate, if you do the cycle you'll get bigger, and will be on a temporary high as a result of this, but there will still be those around who are stronger and bigger anyway. You will come off cycle and it will be frustrating as hell to find how quickly you can lose this new muscle over a few months post cycle with even slight variances in your caloric intake. At 18 you still haven't had enough time to really test and push the influences of diet on your body, and so it is even easier to lose muscle post cycle as a result. Because of your new found size on cycle you will feel a shadow of yourself if you lose it in the months after the cycle, and then you will feel the pressure to cycle again. The side effects to your hpta are very real as the vets have said. Why risk it for 12 weeks of being bigger when surely you can acheive so much more naturally at 18. Just push that caloric intake when you bulk mate and that's all you need at 18. Take my profile pic mate that's me looking tiny after I lost all of what I gained after my first cycle. Such is life my blacksmithing business got extremley busy a month after cycle, I didn't pay as much diligence to my diet, and found myself losing the gains I made very quickly. Such is life. Put the steroids on the bench for now, f*ck the risk to your still developing endocrine system, as it's not worth risking over 8-12 weeks or so of being bigger. Keep it natural for now and you'll be happier in the long run. Your time will come.

[Knockout_Power]

Well, these boys are going to do it anyways... at least get your diet in check, all those protein shakes are BS for gains boys

[Cotto333]

Agreed. You both are too young.

But I must applaud your research and the time you took to write out your stats, diet, routine experience, etc.. Therefore, from a simple glance, I feel you both have a smart head on your shoulders and will put them off for a few years. Your natty test levels are through the roof. Your growth plates may not be sealed therefore you may stunt your growth. When I was 18, I was 5'10. Now, I am 20 and stand at 6'1. My father is 6'7 and my brothers are all around 6'3. Therefore, I may have an inch or more to grow myself. Saying that, you should hold off for a few more years. You could stunt your height a few inches, damage your HPTA, and possibly have to be put on TRT if you start at your age.

Steriods = Stunt growth :S Where is the proof?