prop + tren ace cycle to start in 90 days

[boDAWG]

Okay first of all, don't post in here if you don'y have any useful advice. I am not looking for advice from kids that are 18 and 19 and weigh 170lbs, I'm looking for quality advice from VETERANS and people that know WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, with that being said my friends....

here are the stats:

223lbs
23yr old
6'1
15% bf (measured today)

i am cutting for the next 90 days hoping to drop down to about 12ish %

past cycle experience:
test P + tren a
had to stop it 4 weeks in because i was immature, started the cycle when i was 22% bf and my diet was shitty (****ed myself up so i am a walking example as to why people shouldn't use AAS when they're too fat and too young, this time around though I'm a lot more prepared, smarter and more dedicated so don't lecture me on that one please)

mdrol and epistane cycle (running currently for 2.5 weeks and i am seeing about 5lbs gain so far)


proposed cycle to start October 15th 2010
goal is to gain lean muscle mass, i'd be happy with 15-20lbs of HARD LBM but im gonna shoot for 25lbs and get stronger

my ultimate goal is 240-250lbs at about 10-12% bf by the end of 2010

compounds to use test prop and tren A

dosing:
test prop 75mg ED week 1-3 then 100mg ED week 3-8
Tren A 50mg ED week 1-2, 75mg week 2-4, 100mg week 4-8 (Now I know a lot of you will call me stupid for wanting to do 100mg of Tren A ED but instead of doing that just give me your suggestion as to why i shouldn't, I had a buddy that did it with great results, so just because you disagree please don't insult rather talk like a grow up and suggest other things with proper evidence to support your claim)
Arimidex .25 ED

PCT Nolva and Clomid on hand


diet is

300-400g of protein every day
4500 - 5000 calories
400-500g in carbs
less than 100g in fat a day

workout:

day one chest
incline flys 15 12 12 10
decline flys 12 12 10 8
seated flys 15 12 10 8
bench press 10 10 8 12 10
incline bench 6 8 6 8 10
decline bench 6 6 8 8 10
(not in that exercise order)
cardio 30-45 minutes 3.8 speed 7 incline

day 2 arms
straight bar curls 12 12 10 10 8
ez bar curls 6 8 10 12 15
cable rope curls 8 10 12
preacher curl 10 10 12 12 15
hi rise cable curls 15 15 15
seated curls 8 10 12 12 8
over head dumbbell extensions 15 12 15 12 15
rope pressdowns 15 12 10 8 8
45 degree overhead extensions 10 10 10
dip machine 15 12 10 12 10 8
DB kickbacks 8 10 12 8 10
cardio 30-45 min

day 3 back + shoulders
close grip lat pull downs 10 10 10 10
seated row wide grip 15 15 12 12 10
seated row close grip 15 15 12 12 10
bent over row 45degree grip 12 12 10 10
dead lift 10 10 8 8 6
front raises 12 12 10 10
lat raises 12 12 10 10
DB shrugs 12 12 10 10 10
military press 12 12 10 10 8
seated db shrugs 12 12 10 8
seated lat raises 12 12 10 10 10
cardio 30-45 min

day 4 legs
leg press 20 18 15 10
leg extensions 18 15 12 12
leg curls 15 15 15 15
calf raises 20 20 15 15 15
(i dont want my legs getting bigger i just wanna tone them)
cardio 30-45 min

Day 5 no lifting just 1 hour of low intensity cardio (keeping the heart rate at about 145-155)

Day 6 no lifting just 1 hour of low intensity cardio (keeping the heart rate at about 145-155)

Day 7 start the split again


this is just a let's call it a "rough draft" for now that i will fine tune with everyone's help on here of course haha to help me achieve my goals

[Reed]

Are you cutting first then bulkings, that is what is going on here. correct?

You going to do a PCT after this cycle you are currently on? Mdrol and epistane? You need to get blood work done to see where you stand especially after a cycle of mdrol up top of cycle of two oral steroids or take an extended break. Just cause they are legal does not mean they are not steroids. You might need a break after such

Your goal of 15-25lbs of LBM is unreasonable for the amount of time and goals you have in mind along with the drugs you have listed

Is this your first injectable cycle. Are you going straight into tren and not utilize weaker compounds first? That would be a smart idea or just do a simple test cycle. Stick to one dosage throughout to maintain stable blood levels. Ramping it up is something advanced bodybuilders do. Use as little as possible and make gains on as little as possible. 75-100mg for a first time is a hefty dose. Y do this? Y not make gains on as little as possible and be less reliant on heavy drug usuage and more reliant on hard work, dedication, your diet, proper training.

I'd personally only use the arimidex if needed, or .25mg eod or e3d....

Far too many chest, arm, shoulder exercises in the workouts. Stick to 3-4. Not enough leg work, only one exercise for quad size and one exercise total for hamstrings. Add in free weight squats, hack squats, stiff leg deads and single leg curls to that day

When do you plan to do your cardio? Low intensity in the morning on a empty stomach for 30 minutes would be a great idea and then add more as you go along. Heart rate b/w 115-130 not 145-155.

Lets organize your training, diet, get the current cycle organize then plan from there

[boDAWG]

Are you cutting first then bulkings, that is what is going on here. correct?

You going to do a PCT after this cycle you are currently on? Mdrol and epistane? You need to get blood work done to see where you stand especially after a cycle of mdrol up top of cycle of two oral steroids or take an extended break. Just cause they are legal does not mean they are not steroids. You might need a break after such

Your goal of 15-25lbs of LBM is unreasonable for the amount of time and goals you have in mind along with the drugs you have listed

Is this your first injectable cycle. Are you going straight into tren and not utilize weaker compounds first? That would be a smart idea or just do a simple test cycle. Stick to one dosage throughout to maintain stable blood levels. Ramping it up is something advanced bodybuilders do. Use as little as possible and make gains on as little as possible. 75-100mg for a first time is a hefty dose. Y do this? Y not make gains on as little as possible and be less reliant on heavy drug usuage and more reliant on hard work, dedication, your diet, proper training.

I'd personally only use the arimidex if needed, or .25mg eod or e3d....

Far too many chest, arm, shoulder exercises in the workouts. Stick to 3-4. Not enough leg work, only one exercise for quad size and one exercise total for hamstrings. Add in free weight squats, hack squats, stiff leg deads and single leg curls to that day

When do you plan to do your cardio? Low intensity in the morning on a empty stomach for 30 minutes would be a great idea and then add more as you go along. Heart rate b/w 115-130 not 145-155.

Lets organize your training, diet, get the current cycle organize then plan from there

hey,

First of all thanks for the advice. Yes currently i am cutting trying to lean out as much as possible and i will be doing a PCT after the mdrol and epi cycle. This will be the first cycle that i will follow through and actually want to be 100% prepared for it. Last cycle i stopped after 4 or 5 weeks because i realized i knew nothing about what i was doing, diet and training were off and i was way too high in the bf% to be on any gear at the time. I do cardio around 8am on an empty stomach and if i dont have time to do that i do it immediately after my work out. Arimidex i meant to put .25 EOD not ED, also i do not want to build my legs anymore, I would however like some pointers on how to tone my calves quads and thighs a bit more. Also why do you say too many exercises per muscle group? I used to do about 4 exercises per group but now that im on mdrol i seem to recover fast so i figured why not add a few more exercises in there?

Also why do you say 15-20lbs in an unrealistic goal for the prop tren a cycle of 8 weeks?

Anyways thanks for your advice and look forward to more

[TTexas]

Gonna be hard to meet those weight goals with that much cardio.

[customworksking]

good luck with tren A.. not good for 1st cycle... b ready for no sleep high bp n crazy dreams if u do sleep.. test is best

[Reed]

hey,

First of all thanks for the advice. Yes currently i am cutting trying to lean out as much as possible and i will be doing a PCT after the mdrol and epi cycle. This will be the first cycle that i will follow through and actually want to be 100% prepared for it. Last cycle i stopped after 4 or 5 weeks because i realized i knew nothing about what i was doing, diet and training were off and i was way too high in the bf% to be on any gear at the time. I do cardio around 8am on an empty stomach and if i dont have time to do that i do it immediately after my work out. Arimidex i meant to put .25 EOD not ED, also i do not want to build my legs anymore, I would however like some pointers on how to tone my calves quads and thighs a bit more. Also why do you say too many exercises per muscle group? I used to do about 4 exercises per group but now that im on mdrol i seem to recover fast so i figured why not add a few more exercises in there?

Also why do you say 15-20lbs in an unrealistic goal for the prop tren a cycle of 8 weeks?

Anyways thanks for your advice and look forward to more

If you can not exhaust those muscles in 3-5 exercises during training then IMO you gotta keep up the intensity. More is not always better in training. Being smarter is. IMO Id suggest to do one exercise per angle in chest. No need for 2-3 incline exercises or decline or flat presses.

15-20lbs of lean body mass in 8 weeks is not realistic. Gaining 15-20lbs total is though. Water, fat, etc, is not LBM. If you continue on in the process of learning about exercise, the human body, etc you'll understand why. Bro knowledge is one thing, science is another.

I just caught the pic in your post, Id personally would say with the current amount of muscle you hold to postpone tren for later. Much later. Weight is one thing but if you were to get your bodyfat tested accurately and then calculated your actually lean body mass you may find in isn't as much as you once thought. Happens to most first time competitive bodybuilders when they begin to diet down. When they start around 230-240 and when in shape they weigh around 170-180. Id think you personally fit this bill Take everything I say simply as a critique.

I think a simply test only cycle is what is needed, hold on the tren. Try dbol, deca, eq, winny, and other compounds out first before reaching straight for the MOST POWERFUL INJECTABLE THERE IS.

Utilize your stronger compounds for later if working out is something that will be a long term goal.

What is your overall goal? Do you have a physique goal or strength goals. It can take several years to achieve certain goals, not weeks, months or 1-2 years. But if you listen to the right people, continue to learn as much as possible about the way to diet and train right you'll be on your way.

[boDAWG]

If you can not exhaust those muscles in 3-5 exercises during training then IMO you gotta keep up the intensity. More is not always better in training. Being smarter is. IMO Id suggest to do one exercise per angle in chest. No need for 2-3 incline exercises or decline or flat presses.

15-20lbs of lean body mass in 8 weeks is not realistic. Gaining 15-20lbs total is though. Water, fat, etc, is not LBM. If you continue on in the process of learning about exercise, the human body, etc you'll understand why. Bro knowledge is one thing, science is another.

I just caught the pic in your post, Id personally would say with the current amount of muscle you hold to postpone tren for later. Much later. Weight is one thing but if you were to get your bodyfat tested accurately and then calculated your actually lean body mass you may find in isn't as much as you once thought. Happens to most first time competitive bodybuilders when they begin to diet down. When they start around 230-240 and when in shape they weigh around 170-180. Id think you personally fit this bill Take everything I say simply as a critique.

I think a simply test only cycle is what is needed, hold on the tren. Try dbol, deca, eq, winny, and other compounds out first before reaching straight for the MOST POWERFUL INJECTABLE THERE IS.

Utilize your stronger compounds for later if working out is something that will be a long term goal.

What is your overall goal? Do you have a physique goal or strength goals. It can take several years to achieve certain goals, not weeks, months or 1-2 years. But if you listen to the right people, continue to learn as much as possible about the way to diet and train right you'll be on your way.

Once again bro thanks for the great advice, this is exactly why i posted here and yeah im 225ish right now at 15% bf which means im carrying about 190ish lbs of muscle on me right now. For now i guess ill just switch up the routine and maybe give test e or c a thought for 12 weeks instead of the original test p and tren cycle, or i might hold off on a cycle for another year or so all together, im just gonna keep training hard for the next few months and see where it takes me and keep learning and thinking in the meanwhile.

Thanks for the advice bro

[boDAWG]

or how about this cycle if i did decide to do one in 90 days

test e 600mg a week split into 3 200mg shots mon - wed - fri (to keep the blood levels more constant) for 12 weeks with a preload of 1000mg for the 2 weeks prior to beginning the actual cycle (or would you guys not recommend a pre load for me)
and anadrol at 50mg ED weeks 1-4 (just to jump start me)
arimidex .25 EOD

[Reed]

or how about this cycle if i did decide to do one in 90 days

test e 600mg a week split into 3 200mg shots mon - wed - fri (to keep the blood levels more constant) for 12 weeks with a preload of 1000mg for the 2 weeks prior to beginning the actual cycle (or would you guys not recommend a pre load for me)
and anadrol at 50mg ED weeks 1-4 (just to jump start me)
arimidex .25 EOD

Just keep it simple IMO to start.

Front loading you do double the dose for the first weeks, ie 500mg 2x that first week then back to what you want but you already got the jumpstart with the drol

Id go with

wk 1-12- 250/300mg 2x a week
wk 1-4 (or 6): 50mg ed
arimidex .25mg eod or as needed.

Then PCT Nolva/clomid is fine

[boDAWG]

Just keep it simple IMO to start.

Front loading you do double the dose for the first weeks, ie 500mg 2x that first week then back to what you want but you already got the jumpstart with the drol

Id go with

wk 1-12- 250/300mg 2x a week
wk 1-4 (or 6): 50mg ed
arimidex .25mg eod or as needed.

Then PCT Nolva/clomid is fine

okay cool,

that cycle will be a lot cheaper anyways haha

like i said im gonna lift for the next couple of months, bust my ass on cardio as well and eat clean and research more, then ill report back and let all of you guys know what ive decided to go with

thanks for the help bros

[Mar-Vell]

Once again bro thanks for the great advice, this is exactly why i posted here and yeah im 225ish right now at 15% bf which means im carrying about 190ish lbs of muscle on me right now. For now i guess ill just switch up the routine and maybe give test e or c a thought for 12 weeks instead of the original test p and tren cycle, or i might hold off on a cycle for another year or so all together, im just gonna keep training hard for the next few months and see where it takes me and keep learning and thinking in the meanwhile.

Thanks for the advice bro

This is not true, see you have 190lbs of muscle, bones, blood, organs, etc... all this number says is that you have 35lbs of fat, but nobody can say how many pounds of muscle you have
Anyway, i agree with the pal who said youre doing too much cardio, with just the tren and a clean diet you can get lean and gain almost all the pounds you said you want, see you have 15%bf but you are almost lean already, exceed the cardio and the quality weight will come too slowly
PS: im one of those 170lbs guys you said, hope you dont mind

[boDAWG]

This is not true, see you have 190lbs of muscle, bones, blood, organs, etc... all this number says is that you have 35lbs of fat, but nobody can say how many pounds of muscle you have
Anyway, i agree with the pal who said youre doing too much cardio, with just the tren and a clean diet you can get lean and gain almost all the pounds you said you want, see you have 15%bf but you are almost lean already, exceed the cardio and the quality weight will come too slowly
PS: im one of those 170lbs guys you said, hope you dont mind

YEAH, i understand the 190lbs of organs bones and all that, but did you just recommend me that i do a tren only cycle? Because that will not be happening ever.

Also im doing cardio but the cardio is low intensity, and i am doing so much cardio because i don't want the slightest risk of putting on any more fat even if it takes me a lot longer to put on that mass ill take my time cuz i understand nothing comes overnight and i want quality LBM gains

[Knockout_Power]

I didnt read through all the posts but ramping doses is not effective cycling at all... the whole point is to maintain steady blood levels and if you keep ramping it then it never stabalizes.

[boDAWG]

I didnt read through all the posts but ramping doses is not effective cycling at all... the whole point is to maintain steady blood levels and if you keep ramping it then it never stabalizes.

reason i wanted to MAYBE ramp up is because i didn't know how my body was gonna react to such high doses of the compounds but i decided to go against the prop tren cycle