Please critique and advise me on this cycle. Thanks

[Art Vandelay]

Thanks!

[Aizen Sosuke]

Why use so much aromasin? Are you gyno prone? Try getting some accutane for the acne. The hcg and aromasin will help but you will probably still get some. Try something like 10mg/day. I like your pct btw

[D7M]

Your screen name cracks me up everytime I see it.

Stats and cycle history?

[Lean1038]

I'd lower your doses to 50mg EOD (Prop and Ace) and wouldn't run Tren without a high dose of DHT to avoid sides IME.

Either Proviron @ 100mg ED, Masteron, or Winny would help a lot.

Keep your dosages low with Test and Tren to avoid sides and you'll be happy you did in the end. It doesn't take much to have great gains with Tren. Just minimize your aromatizable compounds on cycle with it.

Use letro and bromo, start your Tren at the beginning, stop it 2 weeks before your Test ends, and drop the the Nolva.

[Art Vandelay]

Why use so much aromasin? Are you gyno prone? Try getting some accutane for the acne. The hcg and aromasin will help but you will probably still get some. Try something like 10mg/day. I like your pct btw

No,m I'm not gyno prone... Swifto recommended those doses. Of course all have their diff views on things so I'm open to suggestions etc. Elaborate, what do ya think?

Ty ty

[Art Vandelay]

Your screen name cracks me up everytime I see it.

Stats and cycle history?

Ty man, that's why it's there!

I'm an importer/exporter, but sometimes I tell dames I'm an architect.

Time's FLYIN brother... Festivus is right around the corner!
__________________


6'1'' about 200, Prob 14%

Done two Test E cycs

[Art Vandelay]

I'd lower your doses to 50mg EOD (Prop and Ace) and wouldn't run Tren without a high dose of DHT to avoid sides IME.

Either Proviron @ 100mg ED, Masteron, or Winny would help a lot.

Keep your dosages low with Test and Tren to avoid sides and you'll be happy you did in the end. It doesn't take much to have great gains with Tren. Just minimize your aromatizable compounds on cycle with it.

Use letro and bromo, start your Tren at the beginning, stop it 2 weeks before your Test ends, and drop the the Nolva.

Ok, I haven't seen the 50 eod dose much but it makes sense... What do you all think about that?

Sorry, I should search but DHT, IME?

[Art Vandelay]

I'd lower your doses to 50mg EOD (Prop and Ace) and wouldn't run Tren without a high dose of DHT to avoid sides IME.

Either Proviron @ 100mg ED, Masteron, or Winny would help a lot.

Keep your dosages low with Test and Tren to avoid sides and you'll be happy you did in the end. It doesn't take much to have great gains with Tren. Just minimize your aromatizable compounds on cycle with it.

Use letro and bromo, start your Tren at the beginning, stop it 2 weeks before your Test ends, and drop the the Nolva.

Both Letro and Bromo?

And as far as the start times of the test/tren.... I've been told the exact opposite a lot. Actaully to either start the Test and Tren at the same time as the Prop is quick acting, or to Prop fpr 2 weeks, then start the Tren to make sure its up and running as Tren shuts you down so hard...

Why do you think that bro?

[Lean1038]

Both Letro and Bromo?

And as far as the start times of the test/tren.... I've been told the exact opposite a lot. Actaully to either start the Test and Tren at the same time as the Prop is quick acting, or to use it in the beginning, 2 weeks before the Tren to make sure its up and running as Tren shuts you down so hard...

Why do you think that bro?

Yes, letro and bromo to be safe.

Tren only shuts you down if you abuse it and overdose. I felt great on cycle with a low dose. Tren should be the first compound in your cycle, along with test, and also should be dropped 2 weeks before your Test to taper things down into PCT.

This is a common practice with Tren.

[D7M]

I'd prefer the aromasin over the letro any day of the week

[Lean1038]

I'd prefer the aromasin over the letro any day of the week

I'd agree with any other compound, but not Tren.

[Aizen Sosuke]

I'd prefer the aromasin over the letro any day of the week

I agree. Letro is way to harsh on his estrogen. He's got bromo, aromasin and nolvadex in case things get out of hand. No need for letro IMO. Dude swifto is by far my sensei when it comes to pct. However he is ERSE like me. We get acne and other estrogen related sides. If you aren't do that same dose but eod instead.

[Art Vandelay]

I dont have bromo, I absolutely should?

[Art Vandelay]

I'd lower your doses to 50mg EOD (Prop and Ace) and wouldn't run Tren without a high dose of DHT to avoid sides IME.

Either Proviron @ 100mg ED, Masteron, or Winny would help a lot.

Keep your dosages low with Test and Tren to avoid sides and you'll be happy you did in the end. It doesn't take much to have great gains with Tren. Just minimize your aromatizable compounds on cycle with it.

Use letro and bromo, start your Tren at the beginning, stop it 2 weeks before your Test ends, and drop the the Nolva.

DHT, IME? Did you mean IMO?

Why ya say no Nolva man?

[Art Vandelay]

So although I see so much on here about starting the Prop 2wks before the tren and ending them at the same time, I should do the exact opposite? Start them both together and end the tren two weeks before the Prop?

[Aizen Sosuke]

So although I see so much on here about starting the Prop 2wks before the tren and ending them at the same time, I should do the exact opposite? Start them both together and end the tren two weeks before the Prop?

The acetate is a shorter ester than the propionate. IMO you could start them together and certantly finish them together. The worst that could happen is you are shutdown for the first couple of days which I doubt.

[Aizen Sosuke]

DHT, IME? Did you mean IMO?

Why ya say no Nolva man?

That's a very low dose of both tren and prop. If anything try 100mg/eod of the prop and 75mg/eod of tren a.

[Lean1038]

DHT, IME? Did you mean IMO?

Why ya say no Nolva man?

In My Experience.

Nolva makes progestine related sides worse.

[Neevor]

The acetate is a shorter ester than the propionate. IMO you could start them together and certantly finish them together. The worst that could happen is you are shutdown for the first couple of days which I doubt.

That's a very low dose of both tren and prop. If anything try 100mg/eod of the prop and 75mg/eod of tren a.

Thank you Aizen! (btw I freakin love Bleach so nice work buddy, badass handle name) I'm goin down this thread and am wondering when someone is gonna speak up.

I agree with Aizen on both points here. Start and end TrenA with the Prop, no need to ramp down off of it. The doses you are planning are fine as well. I just ran a 9 week cycle of prop and tren at 100mg eod as well as Masterone at 75mg eod and was just fine.

[Neevor]

Nolva makes progestine related sides worse.

Ummm, it doesnt make them worse, it just doesnt help them. Nolva blocks estrogen, not Progesterone.

Also, and this is neither here nor there, only a vocab/organic chem lesson, fyi progestin is synthetic progesterone manufactured to be more bioavailable when taken oraly. Oral progesterone gets broken down by the liver, just like oral test. Projestins are used in birth control. You won't have to block progestin if you are taking steroids as they break down into progesterone.

[Lean1038]

Ummm, it doesnt make them worse, it just doesnt help them. Nolva blocks estrogen, not Progesterone.

Also, and this is neither here nor there, only a vocab/organic chem lesson, fyi progestin is synthetic progesterone manufactured to be more bioavailable when taken oraly. Oral progesterone gets broken down by the liver, just like oral test. Projestins are used in birth control. You won't have to block progestin if you are taking steroids as they break down into progesterone.

If that were true, how would you explain this:

I pre loaded Pharm grade Novartis Femara for 30 days before my Test E/Tren E cycle @ .625mg ED. Three weeks in, on even low doses of both Test/Tren, I started getting gyno. I immidiately began running bromo @ 2.5mg every night and it cleared up within a week.

It clearly wasn't estrogen related and even letro didn't stop it.

Which supports my point of Letro + Bromo with tren.

[Neevor]

Umm well unless you made a mistake somewhere in the thread I'd explain it by saying "You're a numnuts who took letrozol for 4 weeks and experienced estrogen rebound when you started taking your cycle." Novartis is letrozol. Not Nolvadex. My point was that Nolva does not increase progesterone sides. Didnt say anything about Letrozol.

[Lean1038]

Umm well unless you made a mistake somewhere in the thread I'd explain it by saying "You're a numnuts who took letrozol for 4 weeks and experienced estrogen rebound when you started taking your cycle." Novartis is letrozol. Not Nolvadex. My point was that Nolva does not increase progesterone sides. Didnt say anything about Letrozol.

If YOU knew that letro takes 30-40 to stabilize estrogen levels, you'd preload it as well. And estrogen rebound for being ON CYCLE? Wow.

My point is, Letro + Bromo.

[FRACTION]

If that were true, how would you explain this:

I pre loaded Pharm grade Novartis Femara for 30 days before my Test E/Tren E cycle @ .625mg ED. Three weeks in, on even low doses of both Test/Tren, I started getting gyno. I immidiately began running bromo @ 2.5mg every night and it cleared up within a week.

It clearly wasn't estrogen related and even letro didn't stop it.

Which supports my point of Letro + Bromo with tren.

Absolutely nobody will support this. How many other factors could be attributed to this? and you think 625mg of tren is a low dose?

do not. I repeat do NOT run bromo and Letro.

[FRACTION]

If YOU knew that letro takes 30-40 to stabilize estrogen levels, you'd preload it as well. And estrogen rebound for being ON CYCLE? Wow.

My point is, Letro + Bromo.

That amount would put your levels at ZERO!
Maximum inhibition of the aromatase enzyme has been found to happen at doses as low 100mcg... (2.J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Sep;80(9):2658-60. )

[Lean1038]

That amount would put your levels at ZERO!

It doesn't, it keeps it VERY low at that dosage. However, my point is that even with low estrogen levels... Takeing bromo with tren is a good cheap insurance.

[FRACTION]

Lipid profile, Immune system, and Sex drive will Shit the bed

[Neevor]

WTF is this? You and your bitch tits laughing at me?

I don't know why your body turned gyno on you. It sounded like you stopped letro when you started your cycle. If that was the case then, yeah, you'd get estrogen rebound. If you ran it all the way through, then no you wouldnt. All I can guess is that it was progesterone or prolactin related since letro also only blocks aromatization but 19nors act on progesterone recptors with like 70% efficiency of actual progesterone and tren is known for increasing prolactin.

In any case, this has nothing to do with the original point which was Nolva does not increase progesterone sides. I don't even know why you brought this letro bromo experience up to support your Nolva argument...

[Neevor]

Sorry OP for hijacking your thread lol

[Swifto]

No,m I'm not gyno prone... Swifto recommended those doses. Of course all have their diff views on things so I'm open to suggestions etc. Elaborate, what do ya think?

Ty ty

What did I advise?

[Aizen Sosuke]

What did I advise?

I'm guessing by your track record you recomended his pct, which is the same I use considering I get the same sides you do on pct and after and much better than the usual 4 weeks at higher dose everyone seems to recomend. And also his aromasin dose of 10mg/day which is where I differ. If he isn't ERSE he could probably get by with eod administration. Your thoughts?

Hey neevor guess what? BAN-KAI

[Art Vandelay]

Sorry OP for hijacking your thread lol

No way man, dont be sorry, do your thing fellas... Thats what I want, a bunch of advice from any who want to chime in.... Thanks for the concern. Have at it tho!

[Art Vandelay]

What did I advise?

Aizen asked why so much aromasin...

[Lean1038]

WTF is this? You and your bitch tits laughing at me?

I don't know why your body turned gyno on you. It sounded like you stopped letro when you started your cycle. If that was the case then, yeah, you'd get estrogen rebound. If you ran it all the way through, then no you wouldnt. All I can guess is that it was progesterone or prolactin related since letro also only blocks aromatization but 19nors act on progesterone recptors with like 70% efficiency of actual progesterone and tren is known for increasing prolactin.

In any case, this has nothing to do with the original point which was Nolva does not increase progesterone sides. I don't even know why you brought this letro bromo experience up to support your Nolva argument...

Why would I stop letro on cycle when I preloaded it? You're an idiot dude.

Good luck OP. Take my advice and stay away from Nolva with Tren.

[HawaiianPride.]

The topic on Nolva with 19nors has been brought up countless times. The latest thread being http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=438133

[Art Vandelay]

So what's the concensus here?

[Art Vandelay]

Did we get an agreement lol?

[Aizen Sosuke]

My advice on post 17 stands as far as dose and run them together weeks 1-10. Also read the thread posted by HP on nolvadex and 19nors.