Cycle issues. New AAS user.

[Rexjad]

I have been training for about 5 years solid, save a few weeks here and there from shoulder pain but nothing serious. I weigh approximately 219 upon waking, I am 5th 11inches and 14.5%bf I am 22 years old.
I started taking AAS about 10 weeks ago and have seen null on results. Maybe bunk gear? Not sure
200mg prop EOD
200mg EQ EOD (I know EOD is not neccesary with this ester but I wanted To keep it simple and remain with just EOD injects and not confuse anythjng of forget)
50mg ED first 4 weeks t-Bol
Originally .25 arima EOD but I have stopped and no water weight or gyno ensued.

Workouts are on a 3 day split and I workout my major muscle groups mixed with the smaller ones, alternating large or small group first. For example chest and bi's one day and next time around bi's and chest. My diet is around 2500-2750 calories a day 180-220 grams of protein split over 6-7 meals. My sleep is not amazing, probably averaging 6 hours a night but never less. Sometimes much much more.
I still weigh the same weight but I look slightly more cut, though I feel this is no more then I would have changed given the time regardless and intensity of workouts from the psychosomatic response to injecting. I do have acne on my shoulders now, though a friend said it could be from injecting so much oil into my skin.
Any advice would be great! Again I may think I know but I am new to AAS and have researched for 6 months but from forums and friend advice.

[D7M]

Has your libido increased at all?

That's a pretty sure sign you have legit gear.

What's your planned pct?

[HawaiianPride.]

If your juice was real you should have seen much more results in 10 weeks IMO. 800mg of Prop and EQ PW would have made a pretty dramatic effect on your weight. Especially since this was your first cycle.

Can I ask why you dosed so high?

[Gamer]

im currently at 100mg prop EoD by itself, for about the last 21 days. Sex drive is though the roof and i have already noticed strength increase. i am at a higher cal per day about 4k plus. im not the most experienced AAS person but at that dose for that many weeks i cant see how you havent noticed a difference. maybe bunk gear.

[Rexjad]

PCT was kindve overdoing it. I'm on for 2 more weeks but then coming off with 500iu HCG Every 5 days.
Clomid 150 mg for 5 days 70 mg for 10 ten 35 for the rest of the 4 weeks on clomid
Tamox 70mg 7 days 35 mg thereafter
Clen on a 80mcg daily with benadryl every third week.
I know probably overdoing it but wanted to retain gains lol not that I have much to lose. I have over the course of my 5 years lost 70lbs of fat (which took 2 years) so I know how to diet. I appreciate that wasn't brought into question.
As far as libido goes, I was always kindve a horny bastard. Even with a steady GF I normally need to have sex once a day and if not I gotta do the deed or I freak out. This did not increase with AAS. Nor did my balls shrink to a even questionable size

[D7M]

Not everyone experience testicular atrophy.

the lack of noticeably increased libido and lack of weight gain suggest bunk gear.

[Rexjad]

@ Hawaiian pride- I'm not honestly sure why I dosed so high. I was reccomended that dose by a friend and he saw good results, he is a bit of an idiot though, remaining on AAS for a year at a time. As far as muscle goes I am kindve a hard gainer, as I am Pinoy and lucky to have worked to my current weight I'm told(my brothers are skinny as sin)
@gamer- that's what I thought. Not even my bouncer juiced out friends questioned any growth. People who hadn't seen me in ages said I got bigger, but that's the norm since they are all tiny phillipinos lmao.

[sigman roid]

Not everyone experience testicular atrophy.

the lack of noticeably increased libido and lack of weight gain suggest bunk gear.

I'd agree with D7 10 weeks on cycle and no increased libido definitly points to bunk gear imo.

[HitIt]

22 years 219 lbs at only 2500 cals a day?

[Rexjad]

@hit it. Yessir 219, though Not as cut as you, not nearly. Most of it comes from my torso depth and width which is incredibly thick. If I could upload pics from my iPhone I would. I'm not huge by any means.
@D7 you're probably right. I've of late aquired T400 from a reliable source(where all my huge bouncer friends get it) as well as decca(QV labs) and parabolan I am going to try after PCT

[HitIt]

I just think in order to grow at your current weight you need more calories...I'm comsuming around 3300 a day and I am 80lb lighter than you

[HawaiianPride.]

@hit it. Yessir 219, though Not as cut as you, not nearly. Most of it comes from my torso depth and width which is incredibly thick. If I could upload pics from my iPhone I would. I'm not huge by any means.
@D7 you're probably right. I've of late aquired T400 from a reliable source(where all my huge bouncer friends get it) as well as decca(QV labs) and parabolan I am going to try after PCT

Time on + PCT = time off including an additional month to get blood work done. From here you will be able to determine if you are cycle ready again.

[Rexjad]

Yessir. In my mind PCT includes the 12 weeks off. As far as blood work goes what should I ask for? Or just basic blood work for cholesterol?
@hitit you're probably right as far as calories go. I just don't know how to get that many without balls tons of carbs and my body and carbs=incredibly fast fat gain.

[HawaiianPride.]

Metabolic/lipid/hormonal panel.

[Rexjad]

Thanks much guys.
I have pretty damn good health insurance, if I get blood work now and it shows no test level elevation, should I proceed with PCT just to build the habit or skip it?

[Rexjad]

Blah damn you uncertainty!

[HawaiianPride.]

If all your blood work comes back in the normal range, then PCT is not needed.

[Rexjad]

Cool got an appointment next week. Again thanks for all the help. Will update and question you all some more.

[Rexjad]

I have been training for about 5 years solid, save a few weeks here and there from shoulder pain but nothing serious. I weigh approximately 219 upon waking, I am 5th 11inches and 14.5%bf I am 22 years old.
I started taking AAS about 10 weeks ago and have seen null on results. Maybe bunk gear? Not sure
200mg prop EOD
200mg EQ EOD (I know EOD is not neccesary with this ester but I wanted Toledo it simple and remain with just EOD injects and not confuse anythjng of forget)
50mg ED first 4 weeks t-Bol
Originally .25 arima EOD but I have stopped and no water weight or gyno ensued.

Workouts are on a 3 day split and I workout my major muscle groups mixed with the smaller ones, alternating large or small group first. For example chest and bi's one day and next time around bi's and chest. My diet is around 2500-2750 calories a day 180-220 grams of protein split over 6-7 meals. My sleep is not amazing, probably averaging 6 hours a night but never less. Sometimes much much more.
I still weigh the same weight but I look slightly more cut, though I feel this is no more then I would have changed given the time regardless and intensity of workouts from the psychosomatic response to injecting. I do have acne on my shoulders now, though a friend said it could be from injecting so much oil into my skin.
Any advice would be great! Again I may think I know but I am new to AAS and have researched for 6 months but from forums and friend advice.

[D7M]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=443536

^^^Hope this thread is a mistake...

[Rexjad]

Yes I don't know how this happened. How do I delete it?

[D7M]

not a problem, brother,

we'll take care of it...

[Rexjad]

Thanks

[TKO Performance]

Did everyone miss him saying he was 22? Dude, seriously you are too young for this stuff now. You're risking damage to your HPTA for what it seems was no real reward. My advice is finish your PCT, and then stay away from steroids for at least another 3 years.

2,500-2,700 calories is not enough, and you most likely have not seen gains because of that. At 219lbs you should be around 3,200-3,500 just to maintain your current muscle mass.

[scotty51312]

Agree with the diet issue. If you run test and EQ but don't eat enough to grow you're not gonna grow. Pretty similar stats (other than age) to me on my first cycle (500mg test/400mgEQ per week) At a little over 4kcal's a day I went from 207 in week one to to 229 in 10 weeks. IMO its a diet issue so my advice would be 3 years from now when you're 25 try again only learn a little more about bulking diets.

[Rexjad]

Just curious, how come 22 is too young? I mean at 5-11 and training the way I am, gojng through bulking and cutting natural phases I've been stuck at 219-230 depending on body fat for 2 years even with a personal trainer. I've never really had to eat too much since I have a very slow metabolism. Though I will take this into consideration. 3300 seems high but may be why I do not recover in a timely manner, at 3300 I would put on a significant amount of fat I feel since indignant get these calories from mainly protein and fat. Carbs for me are bad news bears. Even brown rice is hard. Though again I will try all this. How does being 22 effect my HPTA though? Or are you just saying since my natty test should be damn high anyways? I'm in no way finished but my major concerns endocrinology and those axi aren't really discussed as being able to be ruined at a young age, though that would be silly to argue my side since u wouldn't be able to "ruin" a patient needing hormone replacement therapy's HPTA anyways since that's why they need it. Hahaha I answered my own question, but in experience why not at 22? And ok at 25? Not questioning you. Just want knowledge

[HawaiianPride.]

Did everyone miss him saying he was 22? Dude, seriously you are too young for this stuff now. You're risking damage to your HPTA for what it seems was no real reward. My advice is finish your PCT, and then stay away from steroids for at least another 3 years.

Sound advice, and I commend you for pointing this out to ensure he will truly avoid future adverse health issues.

With that being said; I've cycled at 22. With proper blood work and all the necessary precautions it can be done safely. Anything younger is really pushing it, I won't lie. Like it's been stated in many threads, your organisms are still maturing whether it be 22 or 25. Between these age groups, as long as you are under medical supervision, I strongly believe you can cycle (aas only) safely, healthy, appropriately, and avoid future complications as long as you don't abuse the medication. I am living proof of this.

Furthermore, assuming anyone and everyone that is under 25 isn't fully developed simply isn't true. Everyone develops at a different rate. My growth plates were fully developed right before my 19th birthday. That doesn't happen to very many males in their teens. But I will agree, to be "on the safe side", it would be the wisest choice to wait until your BEYOND 25 with knowledge to experience AAS/GH/SLIN ect. But as I've stated earlier, if you are under professional supervision and you cycle safely and responsibly, I approve of testing the waters with AAS only.

Now if your goals were to make a career in IFBB, then it would be a whole different ball game.. lol.

[Rexjad]

I don't mean to make a career out of it, but since I was 270 and 5-7 (not muscle severly obese) I had a life goal of competing at least once. I told myself at 18 I would wait 4 years till I was 22. My doctor knows what I am doing and is mad about it but did offer some ancilliary medication. I will be more careful in the future and monitor levels more carefully. Thanks for the advice

[HawaiianPride.]

My main point is not everyone develops at the same rate, and if you want to cycle under 25, do so under medical supervision.

[Rexjad]

Whn I said I would wait until I was 22 I meant to try AAS not to compete, I am in no way near ready for that

[Rexjad]

Maybe I'm wrong but I though AAS made you sterile for the time on. Maybe this is a rookie mistake but my GF came up pregnant. 5 weeks pregnant and she's on Birth control. Cheating aside shouldn't this not have happened? I can't wait till blood results come back and I know if it was legit gear.

[HawaiianPride.]

Maybe I'm wrong but I though AAS made you sterile for the time on. Maybe this is a rookie mistake but my GF came up pregnant. 5 weeks pregnant and she's on Birth control. Cheating aside shouldn't this not have happened? I can't wait till blood results come back and I know if it was legit gear.

False. You can most definitely get a girl prego while "on".

[TKO Performance]

It is true that everyone develops at a different rate, but I was my current height in 8th grade at 14. Obviously I'd stopped growing by that age. I think taking height change to mean you have stopped developing isn't scientifically supportable. I had my growth plates checked via bone scan when I was 15, and again at 16 (I was having the procedure done for another reason, and it was easy to check while I was there). My growth plates were still active, but I did not continue to grow, or if I did grow the amount was unmeasurable.

Even if the hormone balance wasn't an issue there are many other reasons not to cycle before 25. First, most people are simply not mature enough to do it responsibly. If you're taking diet and exercise advice from dubious sources do you really want to be doing the same when it comes to drug use?

Second, I've yet to meet a 22 year old whose diet and training were right. Most of them are where I was at 22, doing the wrong thing and not understanding why it wasn't working. Without a solid foundation in diet and training taking steroids is a waste of money, yet I think this is what leads most people that age to steroids.

Third, there are exceptions to every rule, but without medical supervision, which let's face it the vast majority of 22 year olds are not going to have or get, it's far safer to just say don't do it until after 25, when scientifically your hormone balance is a known quantity and the risks are known, calculable, and avoidable.

[Rexjad]

I respect that opinion. Though as far as dealing with AAS I feel very capable when it comes to maturity. My training is great and my diet seems solid, though I was not prepared for the amount of food I needed to eat on AAS. I feel as though I am in very very good shape for 22 and coming from being obese and losing over 70 lbs and rebuilding to 230 and slowly coming down from 20%bf to 14.5 and maintaining 219. I know I could probably get more muscle and grow a bit more naturally but I feel I have worked enough to deserve some respect on my choice to try AAS. Not many 22 tear olds have gotten where I am and put as much effort in as I do. Again I admit I was naive in assuming it would work like magic when I didn't put calories in but again I am not your average 22 year old "kid" I work 3 jobs. 2 night part-time and one day full-time having lived on my own since 18 and now paying on my own house(town house though) I am very responsible. Not being super defensive I just want to not be looked down upon. I have saved b4 and afters I will put up soon as to my journey naturally to this point.

[Rexjad]

Also medical supervision is easy cause I have health insurance from my day job and my club security pastime offers full medical as well. So
No co-pay or anything.

[HawaiianPride.]

TKO:

I understand bro. If the majority of the board concurs to only handing out anabolic advice to those 25 and up, then perhaps we should only allow members above 25 to even entire the AAS Q+A. I've seen plenty of staff members and regular members hand out advice to people 23/24 ect... it's up to them to heed the the advice we give them in regards to proper and safe protocols.

[TKO Performance]

I don't think your a dumb kid by any stretch. Your posts have been intelligent and you've been listening to the advice given. Trust me, I've read plenty of posts by dumb kids on here. If you were a dumb kid HP would have ripped you a new one by now instead of giving you some solid advice.

The question I'd pose is why you feel you need steroids to reach your goals when you've been successful training naturally up until now? I think your goals are still very attainable naturally, and you don't place yourself into the higher risk bracket of steroid users. I was very mature for my age when I was 22 as well. Still, I look back in hindsight ten years later and realize that I made some bad decisions in that youth. If I can spare anyone else one bad decision based on my experience then those mistakes feel like they were not in vain.

[Rexjad]

I think I will follow up with BW and then reach my goal of 230 at 12% naturally, then Maybe decide on AAS and not just try to reach my old goal faster by using AAS but continue on the path. I'll update BW when it becomes available.

[TKO Performance]

Thus showing wisdom beyond your years. Let us know if we can help in any way. You can always drop me a PM as well.

[Rexjad]

Thanks