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Thread: Cortisol: muscle breakdown

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    Cortisol: muscle breakdown

    Muscle Breakdown: Is Cortisol Leading You Down the Catabolic Pathway?

    Walk into any so-called "hardcore" gym these days, and you’ll likely see ‘em by the dozens. They’re easy to spot… they’re the guys who spend hours on end pushing up plates, searching for supreme physical perfection, yet rarely finding it. They are the hopelessly overtrained, and they’re afflicted with that old Protestant work ethic: a little training is good, so a whole lot must be better.

    The very idea of producing a peak physique leads to a perverse temptation among these fellows to do all but pitch tent in the weight room and camp out there 24/7. "There’s no such thing as overtraining," they declare. Indeed, they know a lot of clichés and can spout them off with machine-gun repetition—No Pain, No Gain… If the Bar Ain’t a Bendin’, You’re Just Pretendin’… Go Heavy or Go Home. But ask them anything specific about exercise physiology or the dynamics of muscle-fiber hypertrophy and repair, and they’re as quiet as Tori Spelling playing Trivial Pursuit.

    The bottom line is, if you’re among the band of hard-and-heavy lifters, cortisol may be literally eating away at your muscle-building potential. Weight training enthusiasts must declare all-out war on this catabolic hormone if they have any aspirations of building muscle. But before we attack all of your cortisol problems, some background on this intriguing subject is in order. After all, understanding leads to solutions (or was it madness?). Anyways, here goes….

    Cortisol is the primary glucocorticoid. It is a natural hormone of the adrenal glands. Although cortisol's precise actions are not completely understood, we know that it is essential for life. Cortisol is necessary to maintain important processes in times of prolonged stress. Most of its effects are not directly responsible for the initiation of metabolic or circulatory processes, but it is necessary for their full response.

    Cortisol Synthesis: Cholesterol--> Pregnenolone--> Progesterone -->

    17-Hydroxyprogesterone-->11-Deoxycortisol --> Cortisol.

    Cortisol can exert its effects on peripheral tissue. Once in circulation, cortisol is typically bound to a specific glucocorticoid-binding alpha2-globulin called transcortin. About 75% of cortisol is bound to transcortin, 15% to 20% bound less tightly to albumin, and 5% of circulating cortisol is unbound (1). This is an important factor to take into consideration when measuring cortisol levels. The 24-hour urinary excretion of unmetabolized cortisol is one of the best ways to accurately gauge cortisol levels. This helps take into account bound and free cortisol. Exogenous cortisol has a half-life of about 70 to 90 minutes. Cortisol can be converted to its 11-keto analogue cortisone (you know, the stuff you take when you have some bad swelling or inflammation).

    The major catabolic effects of cortisol involve its facilitating the conversion of protein in muscles and connective tissue into glucose and glycogen (cortisol may increase liver glycogen). Gluconeogenesis involves both the increased degradation of protein already formed and the decreased synthesis of new protein. Cortisol can also decrease the utilization of glucose by cells by directly inhibiting glucose transport into the cells (1). A cortisol excess can also lead to a decrease in insulin sensitivity. Cortisol also reduces the utilization of amino acids for protein formation in muscle cells. A cortisol excess can lead to a progressive loss of protein, muscle weakness and atrophy, and loss of bone mass through increased calcium excretion and less calcium absorption. That is one of the reasons long-distance runners tend to have skinny physiques. With the amount of stress that runners place on their bodies, they have high levels of free radicals as well as cortisol. Excess cortisol can also adversely affect tendon health. Cortisol causes a redistribution of bodyfat to occur through an unknown mechanism. Basically, the extremities lose fat and muscle while the trunk and face become fatter. Some of the signs of overtraining include higher cortisol levels, which may cause depression-type effects. Cortisol excess can also lead to hypertension because it causes sodium retention (which can make you appear bloated) and potassium excretion. In other words, excessively high cortisol levels may turn you into a girly man! So the real challenge becomes how can cortisol levels be controlled but not inhibited completely because of cortisol's necessary anti-inflammatory effects?

    One way is to take anti-cortisol supplements in the morning upon rising and then before bedtime, as these are two times that cortisol levels seem to be raised. Timed release would not be an option here because this may suppress cortisol levels over too long of an extended period. The key is to suppress elevated levels of cortisol, not decrease normal physiological levels of this hormone because as I mentioned earlier, a small amount is needed for it's anti-inflammatory and other effects.

    Another one of cortisol's undesirable effects for athletes is it causes insulin resistance by decreasing the rate at which insulin activates the glucose uptake system, likely because of a post-insulin receptor block (2). Any type of stress that occurs to the body signals the nervous system to relay this to the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus then responds by initiating the stress-hormone cascade starting with CRF (corticotrophin releasing hormone) followed by ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone) release, and finally glucocorticoid production (pretty intense, huh?). Stress to the human body can include trauma, anxiety, infections, surgery, and even resistance training and aerobics. Recent research has shown that increased cortisol levels also increased protein breakdown by 5% to 20%. (3) Even mild elevations in serum cortisol can increase plasma glucose concentration and protein catabolism within a few hours in healthy individuals. (4) Cortisol increases with increasing time of intense exercise. In overtrained individuals, cortisol levels increase while testosterone levels decrease. That is why one measure of overtraining is the testosterone: cortisol ratio. By the way, overtraining is defined as an increase in training volume and/or intensity of exercise leading to a decrease in performance. Cortisol can increase bodyfat levels especially when it’s increased dramatically in the body. Increased cortisol levels have an adverse effect on testosterone levels. In fact, one of the primary anti-catabolic effects of testosterone and anabolic steroids is it's decreasing muscle cortisol metabolism. (5) That is one reason why many athletes can completely overtrain when taking anabolic steroids and still increase lean body mass and strength.

    Some research indicates that cortisol response to resistance training normalizes after about five weeks and that the testosterone: cortisol ratio is not adversely affected after long periods of resistance training. (6) This suggests that the body has an adaptive response.

    Cortisol can inhibit growth-hormone levels by stimulating the release of somatostatin (a growth-hormone antagonist). It may also reduce IGF-1 expression (IGF-1 is one of the most anabolic agents in the body and is the substance that is responsible for most of growth hormone’s positive effects because GH converts into IGF-1 in the liver).

    Cortisol has other hormone-modifying effects. Cortisol can directly inhibit pituitary gonadotropin and TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). (7) By doing so, it can make the target tissues of sex steroids and growth factors resistant to these substances. It may also suppress an enyme known as 5' deiodinase, which converts the relatively inactive thyroid hormone T4 to the active one known as T3 or triiodothyronine. This can decrease metabolic rate and make it harder to lose bodyfat (it's already hard enough for people and anything making it harder definitely needs to be kicked to the curb).

    There are different stages in sleep and during one stage, cortisol levels are elevated because protein is being re-cycled. This is one reason that cortisol-suppressing supplements should be taken before bedtime to help minimize excess cortisol production during sleep.

    Cortisol also seems to play a role in various disease states. It is found in higher-than-normal levels in diseases ranging from AIDS and multiple sclerosis to Alzheimer's. Prolonged high levels of cortisol can throw the immune system into chaos and ravage the human body. A growing number of researchers believe that many of the worst, and least-understood, diseases will soon be identified as caused by high cortisol, and subsequently treated with cortisol- reducing drugs or supplements.

    There was an anti-cortisol conference (the second one ever conducted) held in Las Vegas in 1997 and headed up by Steroidogenesis Inhibitors Inc. and Dr. Alfred T. Sapse. This conference had many researchers involved in anti-cortisol research. Abstracts were presented on various supplemental and drug therapies for decreasing cortisol levels, especially in excessive cortisol-production disorders. In particular, there was an abstract presented by Dr. Sapse that mentioned some nutritional supplements to lower cortisol levels in the body. These included gingko biloba, Vitamin A, Zinc, and acetyl l-carnitine (8). Other abstracts presented there discussed the role of DHEA and its metabolites in helping to decrease cortisol levels. (9) Some abstracts presented looked at the progression of cortisol-induced diseases. Overall, the conference was very informative and helped researchers answer many questions on cortisol and anti-cortisol therapies as well as opened the door for further anti-cortisol research.

    Cortisol suppression may be an essential part in the recovery process for athletes involved in a rigorous training program. In fact, one of the signs of overtraining syndrome is high cortisol levels. Moderating (not completely diminishing) cortisol levels is an essential factor in allowing weight-training individuals to completely recover from their exercise session and maximize results (something we would all like to do).

    It may be a very good idea to get cortisol levels tested by a qualified physician (when I say qualified, I mean one who has done this sort of thing before and has been to medical school) on a regular basis. One of the best times to test cortisol levels is first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. This reference value or proper range for cortisol first thing in the morning should be between 4 mcg/dl and 19 mcg/dl with the sample being taken from blood. The normal range for free cortisol levels measured from urine is between 10 pg/ml and 110 pg/ml. There is also another way to measure cortisol through a salivary cortisol screening. The normal range for cortisol with this test first thing in the morning is between 100nmol/L and 300nmol/L. These tests may not have the final say in determining high cortisol levels but, it will certainly give you an idea about where your cortisol levels stand.

    Controlling Cortisol Levels

    Here are some solid tips to help control cortisol levels:

    1) Diet: Make sure you are supplying your body with all the essential nutrients you need to prevent deficiencies and for optimal function. This includes plenty of high-quality protein, complex carbohydrates, essential fatty acids, and vitamins and minerals. Try not to restrict calories continuously as some research suggests that restricting normal caloric intake by 50% can lead to a subsequent increase in cortisol levels by 38%. (10)

    2) Do not overtrain: Try not to work out three or more days in a row without taking a day off. Keep workouts to under an hour at the most and train efficiently and intensely. I know this phrase has been beaten to death but LISTEN TO YOUR BODY!

    Take enough rest days between workouts - If you are really sore, then wait an extra day to train until your body fully recovers from your previous workout. Remember, less may be more in this case.

    4) Relax and try not to get stressed out easily: Take an evening walk with a loved one or take a nap when you get a chance.

    5) Try to get at least eight hours of sleep per night: Sleep is crucial to the recovery and recuperation process.

    6) Spike Insulin levels after a workout: Insulin actually interferes with cortisol and may enhance cortisol clearance from the body. Spiking insulin levels after a workout (by consuming a high-glycemic index carbohydrate) may help minimize excessive cortisol levels since cortisol levels are elevated significantly post resistance training.

    Supplements that may help control increased cortisol levels secondary to intense exercise

    Phosphatidylserine (PS):This phospholipid, which has been known mainly for its cognitive effects, seems to have cortisol-suppressive properties. Recent research shows that 800 mg Phosphatidylserine given in two divided oral doses helps suppress cortisol secondary to intense weight training. (11) In fact, in this same study, the individuals using PS experienced less muscle soreness as well. Earlier research by Monteleone confirms these results. By decreasing cortisol levels, the testosterone: cortisol ratio can increase possibly relating to anabolic effects. PS seems to only decrease cortisol levels when they are elevated and does not seem to decrease cortisol levels below normal. Decreasing cortisol levels or suppression of cortisol production is not desired in many instances as it may cause adverse effects such as a decrease in reaction time to wounds and healing mechanisms in the body. There are two forms of PS available: a brain cortex derivative and a soy lecithin derivative. The brain cortex PS has been used in most of the studies and shown to be effective.

    Acetyl-L-carnitine: This is basically the acetylated ester of L-carnitine. This supplement may help prevent the decline in testosterone that occurs during and after an intense resistance training session. It seems to lessen the response to stress.

    L-Glutamine: This is the most abundant free amino acid in muscle tissue. (12) It seems to play a very important role in protein synthesis and is very important to weight-training athletes. Some research suggests that glutamine levels may be a good indicator of overtraining or overreaching. (12) In other words, athletes who were overtrained generally had low levels of glutamine along with high levels of cortisol. One study actually showed that glutamine directly prevents the cortisol-induced degradation of muscle contractile proteins.(13) Some of its positive effects include enhancing protein synthesis; increasing GH levels, which can counteract some of the catabolic effects of cortisol; potent cell-volumizing effects, which can create an anabolic environment in muscle cells; and partially determining the rate of protein turnover in the muscle. An oral glutamine supplement can help athletes prevent some of the symptoms of overtraining. It may also enhance glycogen synthesis through an unknown mechanism. It also helps provide a source of fuel for the small intestine and may enhance anti-inflammatory function. It has been shown to boost immune function. I hope you get the point -Glutamine is a vital nutrient for weight-training athletes.

    Vitamin C: This vitamin, mainly known for it's anti-oxidant properties, may also have some anti-cortisol effects. A study done by Stone entitled "Effects of Vitamin C on Cortisol and the Testosterone: Cortisol Ratio" showed a decrease in cortisol levels in 17 junior elite weight lifters. This study also showed that the individuals taking Vitamin C (an extra gram a day) improved their testosterone:cortisol ratio by over 20%. This type of decrease in cortisol can lead to increased muscle and connective-tissue hypertrophy and enhanced recovery from training. Since Vitamin C also decreases your chances of suffering from a cold or flu infection by 30% (14) and may aid in collagen synthesis, it would be wise to take some extra vitamin C when involved in an intense weight-training program.

    Zinc: A mineral that is an essential cofactor in over 300 enzymatic reactions in the body including testosterone synthesis and steroid hormone production. Getting enough zinc may make the difference between making great gains and only making average gains in a weight training program.

    Vitamin A: This vitamin, which is often times used for healthy skin function, may also minimize cortisol levels according to Dr. Sapse. He suggested this in an abstract he presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols. (8)

    Gingko Biloba: This herb is mainly used for its excellent cognitive effects by increasing blood flow and oxygen to the brain, which can lead to greater mental focus and concentration. It may also have additional benefits of decreasing cortisol levels according to an abstract presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols. (15) The anti-stress and neuroprotective effects of ginkgo biloba in this study were due to its effect on glucocorticoid biosynthesis. The EGb 761 standardized gingko biloba extract was used in this study and many of the studies showing that it enhances cognition.

    DHEA: This natural hormone of the adrenal glands that declines after the age of 30 seems to have some powerful anti-cortisol effects. Many abstracts presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols discussed DHEA's role in decreasing cortisol levels. DHEA is fat soluble so it can cross the blood-brain barrier and have some effects on cognition as well.

    Androstenedione: This prohormone is a direct precursor to testosterone, which may explain its anti-cortisol effects since increases in testosterone can blunt elevated cortisol levels secondary to intense weight training. Different metabolites of androstenedione and testosterone, such as 4-androstenediol, 5-androstendiol, and nornadrostenediol, may also exert some anti-cortisol effects. However, more research needs to be done in this area to make this clear!

    Androstenetriol: This steroid metabolite, which is chemically known as Delta 5-androstene-3b,7b,17b,triol, was shown in an abstract presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols to counteract the immunological effects of glucocorticoids. (16) This is an interesting compound that definitely needs to be looked at further.

    Conclusion

    This is a subject that will be studied thoroughly in the future. Studies investigating supplemental strategies against cortisol may help weight trainers get the most out of their workouts and help enhance the recovery and recuperation process. Now before you think suppressing cortisol levels can make you Hercules, remember, cortisol levels are one piece to a large and complex puzzle. It takes a combination of proper training, nutrition, and supplementation to achieve your true muscle-building potential. However, getting cortisol levels checked by your doctor and implementing strategies against cortisol may be a good idea, especially during a calorie-restrictive dieting phase. So, the next time you feel tired, sluggish, or sore for an abnormally long time in your weight-training program, and you don't know why, look into cortisol levels, and you might find the answer.

    by Rehan Jalali
    References
    1. Griffin J, Ojeda S. Textbook of endocrine physiology, 3rd ed. New York: Oxford University Press, 1996.

    2. Rizza, et al., "Cortisol-induced insulin resistance in man. Impaired suppression of glucose production and stimulation of glucose utilization due to a post receptor defect of insulin action," J Clin Endocrinol Metab 54 (1982) : 131-138.

    3. Brillon, et al., "Effect of cortisol on energy expenditure and amino acid metabolism in humans," Am J Physiol 268 (1995) : E501-13.

    4. Simmons, et al., "Increased proteolysis: an effect of increases in plasma cortisol within the physiological range," J Clin Invest 73 (1984) : 412-420.

    5. Hickson, et al., "Glucocorticoid antagonism by exercise and androgenic- anabolic steroids," Med Sci Sports Exerc 22 (1990) : 331-340.

    6. Fry, et al., "Resistance exercise overtraining and overreaching. Neuroendocrine responses," Sports Med 23.2 (1997) : 106-129.

    7. Chrousos, et al., CRH, Stress and Depression: An Etiological Approach (Las Vegas, NV: Conference on Cortisol and Anti-Cortisols, 1997)

    8. Sapse, et al., Anticortisols in the Treatment of Retinitis Pigmentosa (Las Vegas, NV: Conference on Cortisol and Anti-Cortisols, 1997)

    9. Baulieu, et al., Anticortisols: Their Potential Usefulness (Las Vegas, NV: Conference on Cortisol and Anti-Cortisols, 1997)

    10. Kelley, et al., "Energy restriction and immunocompetence in overweight women," Nutrition Research 18.2 (1998) : 159-169.

    11. Fahey, et al., Hormonal Effects of Phosphatidylserine (PS) during two weeks of intense weight training (Orlando, Fl : ACSM Conference, 1998)

    12. Rowbottom, et al., "The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining," Sports Med 21.2 (1996) : 80-97.

    13. Hickson, et al., "Glutamine prevents down regulation of myosin heavy chain synthesis and muscle atrophy from glucocorticoids," Am J Physiol 268 (1995) : E730-E734.

    14. Anderson, et al., "Vitamin C and the common cold: A double-blind trial," J Canadian Med Assoc 107 (1972) : 503-508.

    15. Papadopoulos, et al., Regulation of Glucocorticoid Synthesis by the Ginkgo Biloba Extract EGb 761 and isolated Ginkgolides (Las Vegas, NV: Conference on Cortisol and Anti-Cortisols, 1997)

    16. Norbiato, et al., In Vitro Immunomodulatory Effects of Delta 5-Androstene-3b,7b,17b Triol (AET) in Hypercortisolemic Patients (Las Vegas, NV: Conference on Cortisol and Anti-Cortisols, 1997)

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Muscle Breakdown: Is Cortisol Leading You Down the Catabolic Pathway?



    2) Do not overtrain: Try not to work out three or more days in a row without taking a day off. Keep workouts to under an hour at the most and train efficiently and intensely. I know this phrase has been beaten to death but LISTEN TO YOUR BODY!
    i wish i could get my complete workout done in an hour. if i try to get mine just at an hour i feel i didnt take adequate rest periods, and full controlled and focused movements. maybe its mental but i feel like i rushed. i really focus on all my movements and rest period. i see guys doing like triceps and their arms stay at 90 degree angles and they just swing really fast. and they get out in an hour easy.

    and then i have a half hour on the cardio. my sessions seem to have an average of two hours.

    i cant wait to see what my bloodwork shows me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBird View Post
    i wish i could get my complete workout done in an hour. if i try to get mine just at an hour i feel i didnt take adequate rest periods, and full controlled and focused movements. maybe its mental but i feel like i rushed. i really focus on all my movements and rest period. i see guys doing like triceps and their arms stay at 90 degree angles and they just swing really fast. and they get out in an hour easy.

    and then i have a half hour on the cardio. my sessions seem to have an average of two hours.
    i cant wait to see what my bloodwork shows me.
    I wouldnt grow if my workouts lasted that long, I implement short intense workouts, anything over an hour is over training for me and creates the oppersite of what I am trying to achieve, more is not better in my book.

    Would be interesting to see your BW

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    I wouldnt grow if my workouts lasted that long, I implement short intense workouts, anything over an hour is over training for me and creates the oppersite of what I am trying to achieve, more is not better in my book.

    Would be interesting to see your BW
    how long do you wait in between sets for your muscles to recover for the next good set. are your reps generally 8 to 10?

    i generally do three maybe four sets of 8 reps on each target muscle depending on what my gym has to offer as far as equipment, they have nothing for Traps only dumbells and one squat rack. and then 5 minutes between different exercises for a solid recovery to give my next exercise the most.

    so IE: it would be like delts - three sets of 8 with 1 minute between sets. and then five minutes between different exercises. usually each target muscle gets three different exercises. and then the same for Traps..... and thats my delt and Traps night.

    one thing ive never thought about is if i cant find a variable exercise like for flies do to lack of resource should i double up a fly exercise or just stop with 2 exercises. for instance just do another three sets of the same. but im sure thats over working. even though i stop with 2 sets. my gym is small, not a lot of resources, its asian, very few of these guys care about a gym or body building. most of em just go to use the showers and primp in the mirrors.


    im just old school. i dont even know anything about PCT. im just now learning. all i know is what AAS ive used, and what they did in my personal diet and exercise scenarios over the years and i tweaked it best i could. i always put on 40 50 pounds in about 4 months, but it would be nicer to do it in less time with easier workouts. more efficiency. although i do have lots and lots of experience with AAS and ive gotten lots out of them.

    im trying to spend as much time on this board and learn as much as i can, all that i didnt get to learn in the beginning and there from.

    for years i was impervious to side effects, my body strong to everything, but this year they are rearing their ugly heads. now im suffering everything so i know im out of wack. ive posted in the PCT forum recently what bloodwork profiles my doctor requested because i dont trust southeast asian doctors their schooling is not halfway acceptable. but when i get the results i will post them there looking for input. hopefully i get my blood work next week.
    Last edited by SuperBird; 09-05-2010 at 09:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBird View Post
    how long do you wait in between sets for your muscles to recover for the next good set. are your reps generally 8 to 10?

    i generally do three maybe four sets of 8 reps on each target muscle depending on what my gym has to offer as far as equipment, they have nothing for Traps only dumbells and one squat rack. and then 5 minutes between different exercises for a solid recovery to give my next exercise the most.

    so IE: it would be like delts - three sets of 8 with 1 minute between sets. and then five minutes between different exercises. usually each target muscle gets three different exercises. and then the same for Traps..... and thats my delt and Traps night.

    one thing ive never thought about is if i cant find a variable exercise like for flies do to lack of resource should i double up a fly exercise or just stop with 2 exercises. for instance just do another three sets of the same. but im sure thats over working. even though i stop with 2 sets. my gym is small, not a lot of resources, its asian, very few of these guys care about a gym or body building. most of em just go to use the showers and primp in the mirrors.


    im just old school. i dont even know anything about PCT. im just now learning. all i know is what AAS ive used, and what they did in my personal diet and exercise scenarios over the years and i tweaked it best i could. i always put on 40 50 pounds in about 4 months, but it would be nicer to do it in less time with easier workouts. more efficiency. although i do have lots and lots of experience with AAS and ive gotten lots out of them.

    im trying to spend as much time on this board and learn as much as i can, all that i didnt get to learn in the beginning and there from.

    for years i was impervious to side effects, my body strong to everything, but this year they are rearing their ugly heads. now im suffering everything so i know im out of wack. ive posted in the PCT forum recently what bloodwork profiles my doctor requested because i dont trust southeast asian doctors their schooling is not halfway acceptable. but when i get the results i will post them there looking for input. hopefully i get my blood work next week.
    I train nothing like you, mine are very short, intense and as much damage as possible in the shortest time. I do 2 warm up sets then 2 working sets that's it- the working set consist of my heaviest lifts which would be judge to around 4-6 reps then I would have 2 further forced reps( assisted ) then I would dropset and start again - rep until complete failure plus 2 forced reps and dropset again and repeat, so one working set consist of 3 dropsets to complete failure.

    Its all about how much muscle fibre damage you can do in the shortest time available, workouts need to be intense and resting for 5 mins just would knock me right out of my groove, if your getting results carry on but if your not I would seriously consider changing your whole approach IMHO

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    ok.

    im a listener, im never convinced that my way is the right way. i always try to improve. looking to see if i can make improvements.

    for 10 years i did:
    mon: chest and triceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    tues: back and biceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    wed: shoulders - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    mon/thurs: legs - 3 sets, 8 to failure

    every week the same. basically employing what i do now as stated in my previous post. its old school, but that was a regimen that was commonly advised.

    then a few years back, someone suggested:
    mon: chest and triceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    wed: back and biceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    friday: delts and traps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    sunday: legs - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    and then restart tuesday so each week is different.

    so i been doing that for a while. if my diet is good i cant really tell if am or am not getting the same gains. because ive also had bad gear in there also.


    i would love to try your regimen. if i knew i were doing it dead on. but i dont ever have a spotter. you would understand why if you were in my gym. i just was always under the impression that i absolutely had to let my muscles fully recover before starting the next exercise. most people would look at me and say im doing things right obviously, but i know that im just not efficient. i know im losing alot. and i consider even ten percent a lot.

    so for instance, on your triceps..... you just do two warm ups mid weight. and then two sets on a rope and two sets on a flat bar? max reps of 8 or 10..... until failure? no time in between? just knock it out one set after the other? im sorry if my question is dense but im just trying to be clear. all advice is gold to me.
    Last edited by SuperBird; 09-05-2010 at 12:07 PM.

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    SuperBird, try to use a hr monitor to see how long you are really resting for. I mean if at 1 minute of rest your hr is at 60% mhr, then you are resting way too long. I have seen people who take really long periods of time to recover between sets. Use a hr monitor, best investment.

    PS. Just because your hr recovers doesn't mean your muscles are recovered of course; but it does give you a good idea of how long to rest. I rest for 30 seconds at a hr of 55-60%. I found that that is the optimal rest for me. toward the end of the workout it takes me longer to get to 60% hr after a set, but if I don't get there after a minute of rest, I know I am about to overtrain and its time to go home.

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    yea, im seriously resting until my breathing is calm and HR feels dropped because i was always told to focus on muscle recovery between exercises for optimum workout.

    so you also, dont wait any longer than 30 seconds between any set or exercise?

    i get really nice gains, bust out nicely. but its horrifying to think ive been overtraining and over resting for so long. i would really love to cut my time in half and get the same gains if not better.

    i love sharing my experience and what ive learned with the new guys, but i always say i know my way isnt the right or best way. my movements are right. my exercises are right. my intensity is right. but i know my resting periods and certain aspects of my diet hurt me. i just pound a lot of protein down to cover the losses. i would like to work with a new regimen, resting and diet program and see how much i can improve. i'll stop by the mall today and check out a HRM, im am really curious to see at least once how my body/heart rate is responding to my workout.

    thats another reason i read this article again, because i dump lots of protein to cover my cortisol losses and other related issues like insulin spikes and loss of carbs at the wrong time. this is a good thread for me.

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    Great article Marcus, i've been concerned about Cortisol lately so this comes at a good time, thanks!

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    Nice find Marcus. Who wrote it?

    Everyone likes to slate (hydrocortisone) cortisol but you wouldnt be anywhere near alive without it.

    Its an anti-inflammitory, depresses immune functions, it increases mobilization of free fatty acids, decreases glucose utilization sparing it for the brain to use, maintains our blood pressure and is responsible for our ability to process sugars to name a few...

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    I'd just like to add certain rec drugs can increase cortisol levels by nearly 1000%!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBird View Post
    ok.

    im a listener, im never convinced that my way is the right way. i always try to improve. looking to see if i can make improvements.

    for 10 years i did:
    mon: chest and triceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    tues: back and biceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    wed: shoulders - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    mon/thurs: legs - 3 sets, 8 to failure

    every week the same. basically employing what i do now as stated in my previous post. its old school, but that was a regimen that was commonly advised.

    then a few years back, someone suggested:
    mon: chest and triceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    wed: back and biceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    friday: delts and traps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    sunday: legs - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    and then restart tuesday so each week is different.

    so i been doing that for a while. if my diet is good i cant really tell if am or am not getting the same gains. because ive also had bad gear in there also.


    i would love to try your regimen. if i knew i were doing it dead on. but i dont ever have a spotter. you would understand why if you were in my gym. i just was always under the impression that i absolutely had to let my muscles fully recover before starting the next exercise. most people would look at me and say im doing things right obviously, but i know that im just not efficient. i know im losing alot. and i consider even ten percent a lot.

    so for instance, on your triceps..... you just do two warm ups mid weight. and then two sets on a rope and two sets on a flat bar? max reps of 8 or 10..... until failure? no time in between? just knock it out one set after the other? im sorry if my question is dense but im just trying to be clear. all advice is gold to me.
    Ive had a few pm's asking about my training method so I will write something up and post it in the workout section, but when I say 2 working sets I mean each working set as dropsets within it. So one working set really as 3 sets (1first set and 2 dropsets, no rest)

  13. #13
    marcus300's Avatar
    marcus300 is offline ~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
    Nice find Marcus. Who wrote it?

    Everyone likes to slate (hydrocortisone) cortisol but you wouldnt be anywhere near alive without it.

    Its an anti-inflammitory, depresses immune functions, it increases mobilization of free fatty acids, decreases glucose utilization sparing it for the brain to use, maintains our blood pressure and is responsible for our ability to process sugars to name a few...
    its says who wrote it before the ref's mate

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBird View Post
    ok.

    im a listener, im never convinced that my way is the right way. i always try to improve. looking to see if i can make improvements.

    for 10 years i did:
    mon: chest and triceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    tues: back and biceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    wed: shoulders - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    mon/thurs: legs - 3 sets, 8 to failure

    every week the same. basically employing what i do now as stated in my previous post. its old school, but that was a regimen that was commonly advised.

    then a few years back, someone suggested:
    mon: chest and triceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    wed: back and biceps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    friday: delts and traps - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    sunday: legs - 3 sets, 8 to failure
    and then restart tuesday so each week is different.

    so i been doing that for a while. if my diet is good i cant really tell if am or am not getting the same gains. because ive also had bad gear in there also.


    i would love to try your regimen. if i knew i were doing it dead on. but i dont ever have a spotter. you would understand why if you were in my gym. i just was always under the impression that i absolutely had to let my muscles fully recover before starting the next exercise. most people would look at me and say im doing things right obviously, but i know that im just not efficient. i know im losing alot. and i consider even ten percent a lot.

    so for instance, on your triceps..... you just do two warm ups mid weight. and then two sets on a rope and two sets on a flat bar? max reps of 8 or 10..... until failure? no time in between? just knock it out one set after the other? im sorry if my question is dense but im just trying to be clear. all advice is gold to me.
    Super Bird ,

    Your program sounds good ,Where do you fit in your ab workout?

  15. #15
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    Cortisol support

    Marcus what do you think of this cortisol product by >>>no advertising, edit




    Would i benefit using it during and after cycle ???

  16. #16
    marcus300's Avatar
    marcus300 is offline ~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgs View Post
    Marcus what do you think of this cortisol product by >>>no advertising, edit




    Would i benefit using it during and after cycle ???
    Anything what reduces and attacks cortisol cant be all that bad,

  17. #17
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    Sep 2010
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    could i benefit using it during cycle though mate ?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
    I'd just like to add certain rec drugs can increase cortisol levels by nearly 1000%!!
    Swifto, I know we can't get into it on these boards, but can you pm me with specifics? This is seriously concerning if it's what i'm thinking!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Ive had a few pm's asking about my training method so I will write something up and post it in the workout section, but when I say 2 working sets I mean each working set as dropsets within it. So one working set really as 3 sets (1first set and 2 dropsets, no rest)
    ah ok. ok. i understand that now clearly. thank you.



    Quote Originally Posted by BEER WHORE View Post
    Super Bird ,

    Your program sounds good ,Where do you fit in your ab workout?
    thank you.
    my stomach routine is super simple. each morning i hang my legs off the end of my bed, put my hands flat under between my ass and the bed, and do 40 leg lifts. thats all. sometimes i go for 50. and its a great energy boost to start my day. it immediately jacks my energy up. and my girlfriend was just telling me yesterday she loves my stomach.


    we have natural definition in our stomach, all day we give our stomachs a good workout, standing sitting, turning, moving, picking something up, reaching down under, the problem is theres a natural fat blanket over it, if you get rid of that fat blanket the stomach and obliques really already look good. so if my diet is right, i dont have to work a session on my stomach, and i really dont think most people have to...once that blanket is gone. i never had interest in being IFBB so i dont want four inch thick cans on my stomach. i just like the regular ripped look. its much easier to maintain.

    but this is just my opinion. i always listen to others and have my opinions and perspectives changed by others from time to time. if you were to tell me that you really think i should try an idea you had, i would listen whole heartedly, and give it a whirl if i hadnt done it already.
    Last edited by SuperBird; 09-06-2010 at 09:35 PM.

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