Hcg lowers natural lh sensitivity????? Can anyone confirm/deny this with evidence???

[makelovenotwar21]

http://www.*************/free_online...grok/cyborg_12

Q: I'm in my late 30's and I've been receiving 400 mg of Test depot every three weeks. However, my nuts have shrunk. Obviously, I'm experiencing some negative feedback. Would I do well to quit the T for awhile and undergo some hCG therapy? How much? How long?

A: I'm adamantly against the use of hCG in order to restore testicular function. Why? Simply put, it doesn't do that!

Not only that, but it can actually cause down-regulation of LH/hCG receptors which would cause the testicles to become less responsive to therapy in the future as well as to your own LH. If done long enough, you'll have hypogonadism which won't be able to be treated since your testicles won't respond to LH.

The only other option is Testosterone therapy for the rest of your life. I've been preaching this for some time now, but people don't seem to listen. Again, recently it was shown that in men who used hCG, LH was reduced significantly, as was FSH. So, in fact, what you're doing is further prolonging the process of recovery by using hCG.

Is there a time when hCG is actually warranted? Well, I suppose if you can't stand to have low testicular volume during a cycle then you can use it, but ultimately, you're doing much more harm than good. The other reason would probably be if you're wishing to get your wife pregnant. Other than that, I don't, nor will I ever recommend the use of hCG as things like clomiphene and letrozole actually work to correct the problem. (36)


hCG: More Bad News

Q: A friend of mine undergoes concurrent T and hCG therapy, long-term. Any dangers of this protocol?

A: As I mentioned above I'm strongly against the use of hCG. As far as dangers, there aren't any immediate dangers aside from possible gynecomastia. Still, this protocol is likely to cause longer suppression and perhaps even a slight and permanent loss of testicular responsiveness to LH/hCG because of the usage of hCG.








And here's a link to the study at the bottom of the page: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/87/7/3125

Opinions?

I noticed in the study they were giving the men 5000iu biweekly. Everywhere I've read it suggests something closer to 250iu biweekly to maintain your balls, is this the dose u guys use?? I'm hoping it's the incredibly high dosage that's causing the problems.

Or maybe I'll be surprised to find most of you guys are anti-HCG, who knows

[BOBfromfightclub]

edited

[Swifto]

Who wrote this?

Leydig cell desensitisation may occur in large doses. 99% of studies are done on rats and are dosed at 5000-10,000 weekly, which is no were near the amount I suggest on cycle or prior to PCT.

250-500ius in a single or concurrent dosages isnt going to cause desensitisation IMHO.

The author of that Q&A fails to understand how testicular dysfunction exerts itself and how to prevent it using HCG correctly.

I can see his/her mistake though. He/she is basing his/her reasoning on large doses, which may infact cause this side effect. Lower doses do not and there is NO PROOF whatsoever stating low doses cause leydig cells desensitisation, or desensitisation of the testes to endogenous LH.

[SomeRandomGuy]

If hCG is used for too long and in too high a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary gland.

Um, I don't get this statement. It's from wikipedia. It will eventually inhibit it's own production? What is the "it's" they're referring to? Is it because you artificially caused a rise in natural test that inhibits natural test?

Yeah I couldn't find any data on desensitization. You had me worrying there... I did see one pubmed journal, but it basically says that rats administered 75iu's were desensitized for 9 days or something, but they returned to normal after that.

I can't believe HCG manufacturers use the urine of pregnant women. I wonder how much you can get paid for that? I wish my piss was worth something .

No, I'm not anti-HCG. At least with what I think I know to be true. I like having close to normal nut size during a cycle... Then when I jump on the clomid they get almost bigger than normal...

[Far from massive]

To me its kinda like saying seat belts can cause bruising....

Would I take hcg as a daily supplement? No, Would I use it on cycle to suppress hypogonadism? Absolutely

By the way I just read through the study and it looks like there was very little change in any body chemistry between the controls and the HCG groups other than a reduction in prostate problems, so my analysis is that HCG does not affect men over 67 yrs old ( thats like trying to charge a battery in a car thats sat dead for 5 years) which I doubt will be much of a concern for most members here.