Ramping up cals for bulk

[Sgt. Hartman]

I will be starting a clean bulk (800 cal surplus) Jan 1 and will start AAS two months later on March 1. I am waiting on the AAS for 2 reasons:

1. I want to make sure that my diet is spot on, that I like the food I'm eating, and can stick to it 100%. I think alot of people have a great diet on paper but can't stick to it in actuality - so what's the point.

2. I want to see what kind of results I can get naturally, just out of curiosity.

So, the question is, should I jump straight to the 800 cal surplus or should I ramp up by say 200 cal per week. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, I just need to hear some people verify it for me. Really, I'm just being lazy and dont want to have to come up with 4 different diet plans that only differ by 200 cal with the same macros.

I will post up my proposed diet soon for critiques.

[gbrice75]

First, I wouldn't go 800 above unless you're doing alot of quality cardio. Your body can only process so much, and feeding it more isn't going to lead to faster/better results. In fact, it will probably lead to accelerated bodyfat gains which you obviously want to keep to a minimum. I would stick at 500 above until you start your cycle - then you can go a bit higher IMO.

If we're talking 500, i'd bump it up 250 cals for 2 weeks, then another 250. If you choose to continue as planned, i'd do 300, 300, 200. There, now you only have to make 3 diet plans. =)

[PrairieDawg]

Yea I agree with gbrice. You can only absorb so much, the rest just gets crapped out or stored as body fat. Simple as that. If you're a hard gainer on a bulk diet, you should just be gradually increasing the calories until you're seeing results. Or in your case, have it set up to gradually increase it to the date your cycle begins.

[Sgt. Hartman]

gbrice75
First, I wouldn't go 800 above unless you're doing alot of quality cardio. Your body can only process so much, and feeding it more isn't going to lead to faster/better results. In fact, it will probably lead to accelerated bodyfat gains which you obviously want to keep to a minimum. I would stick at 500 above until you start your cycle - then you can go a bit higher IMO.

If we're talking 500, i'd bump it up 250 cals for 2 weeks, then another 250. If you choose to continue as planned, i'd do 300, 300, 200. There, now you only have to make 3 diet plans. =)

I was gonna go with 800 because I plan on doing cardio 6 days a week. I know that I should only do LIC but I have become a cardio freak over the past year and feel like a fat bloated POS unless I do higher intensity cardio everyday. I definitely see your point and will probably just go 500 - 600 over and make myself stick with low intensity.

PrairieDawg
Yea I agree with gbrice. You can only absorb so much, the rest just gets crapped out or stored as body fat. Simple as that. If you're a hard gainer on a bulk diet, you should just be gradually increasing the calories until you're seeing results. Or in your case, have it set up to gradually increase it to the date your cycle begins.

I am not a hard gainer at all - I struggle to stay lean, which is all the more reason you guys' advise makes better sense.

Thanks.

[FireGuy]

OK, so the next question that begs to be asked, if you are not a hardgainer and your struggle is to stay lean, why are you running a bulk diet? Seems condradictory to looking your best to me.

[gbrice75]

Also, I disagree with you HAVING to do LIC - where did you get that idea?

[FireGuy]

^^Didnt see that, agree.

[Sgt. Hartman]

FireGuy1
OK, so the next question that begs to be asked, if you are not a hardgainer and your struggle is to stay lean, why are you running a bulk diet? Seems condradictory to looking your best to me.

I have been over 15% BF (usually about 18%) my entire life until this year. I have spent the last 12 months really focusing on diet and cardio and am currently, and have been for the last 6 months, below 12%. My goal for this bulk is to maintain current BF while gaining muscle mass. I guess I should have said I am not a hard gainer when fat accumulation is not important. IDK how hard it will be for me to gain LBM while staying lean as I have never had a proper diet while trying to gain. I would prefer to stay where I am currently as far as BF and LBM, than gain muscle mass and increase fat.

gbrice75
Also, I disagree with you HAVING to do LIC - where did you get that idea?

It was my understanding that the only time the body burns only fat (and not glycogen) for energy is in a rested state and the closest you can come to achieving that would be LIC. I guess the theory would be that glycogen would be put to better use as fuel for building muscle tissue than burned up doing cardio when LBM gain is the goal.

Please help me understand this better as the more I read, the more confused I become. It seems everyone has a different opinion on cardio in regards to BB and increasing muscle mass. Plus, I am still trying to unlearn all the ignorant info I have gotten over the years from the "old school" big guys (meatheads) at my gym.

[bigslick7878]

How about some stats, diet breakdown and workout history.

Not enough info here.

[Sgt. Hartman]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...chieving-goals

That thread should have everything you need to know.

[gbrice75]

It was my understanding that the only time the body burns only fat (and not glycogen) for energy is in a rested state and the closest you can come to achieving that would be LIC. I guess the theory would be that glycogen would be put to better use as fuel for building muscle tissue than burned up doing cardio when LBM gain is the goal.

Please help me understand this better as the more I read, the more confused I become. It seems everyone has a different opinion on cardio in regards to BB and increasing muscle mass. Plus, I am still trying to unlearn all the ignorant info I have gotten over the years from the "old school" big guys (meatheads) at my gym.

First, the body will never burn ONLY fat. You're right in that there are many different theories, conflicting opinions, etc. Alot of people are fans of fasted AM LIC cardio - and i'm sure it works well for some. For me, it torched LBM like none other. HIIT is becoming more and more preferred in alot of circles.

Look at it this way - Let's say you do LIC for 30 mins and burn 200 calories. 100 calories of fat, 100 calories of whatever (glycogen, LBM, etc). Now you do 30 mins of HIIT and burn 400 calories. 175 calories of fat, 325 calories of whatever. You have burned a bigger PERCENTAGE of fat in the first example, but you have burned more ACTUAL fat in the 2nd.

This is a very crude example and i'm probably doing it no justice whatsoever. FG is much more of an authority on cardio and can articulate this much better then I can. I also know he has been a fan of LIC for a long time and mentioned in another thread that he's recently started changing his views... so this should be good because i'd like to hear more as well.

[Sgt. Hartman]

I have been reading everything I can about this today and for every "expert" that recommends that no cardio or LIC only should be done when trying to gain mass there is another "expert" that disputes it. My conclusion is that it is individual specific because everyone's body can use differing energy sources at different heart rates and cardio durations based on genetics, nutrition, LBM, etc.

I have pretty much decided to continue with my current routine that I've been doing for the last 6 months which is HIIT (not true HIIT but as close as you can get on a treadmill) 2 days a week and med/high intensity 4 days a week. It hasn't negatively affected my LBM eating at maintenance calories so it shouldn't affect it eating a surplus, especially on cycle. Even if my gains are minimal - so what? I can always up my calories or back off the cardio a little and I would rather err on the side of minimal gains and staying lean than gain body fat. Plus, I really enjoy my cardio (never thought I would say that).

I think I remember Fireguy posting that even during his off season bulking, he doesn't go above 12% BF. I would like to know what his cardio routine looks like and specifically what he would recommend.

Calling Fireguy.......

[gbrice75]

I agree with your approach above. The only time i'd recommend LIC (again, this is from my POV, not saying it's right) is the old am fasted - HIIT or high intensity isn't ideal because you are running on fumes - you don't want to get up into that register where you can potentially burn LBM. That was the mistake I made - I was doing the am fasted, but not LIC - I was doing heavier cardio, fast sprints, etc. I've changed things up a bit now.