Resetting Hormones During the Cycle (theory, no science...)

[Swifto]

I've been using 350mg/wk Test Prop and Dbol here and there for a little over 8 weeks now and the last 2 weeks I have felt like shit.

Not ill, no energy, labido has dropped, hit a plateau in training, anxiety and confidence has taken a knock too.

Now, I dont know if this is thyroid function, DHEA, SHBG are any of the obvious and I have not supplemented or tried to with the above compounds to get out of this 1-2 week long feeling of... Being in PCT I guess. So I stopped ALL androgens for 7-10 days.

I was tired, no energy, didnt train, ate lots of fruits/vegtables, slept a lot, labido was down (all was expected) but then I introduced the TP at 350mg/wk again...

Well, wow is all I have to say. Energy is up, labido, pumps in the gym, strength is back, sleeping well, etc...

This may only work for short ester's as long ester's take too long to clear, but if you run into problems like this, take a break off EVERYTHING and do a 2 week detox with various foods, then back on again. It certainly worked for me.

I feel on cycle again, no where near how I did previously.

No science here, just a theory on resetting hormone's during the cycle when needed.

Listen to your body.

[chuckt12345]

hormones can be a btch. What cycle is this?

[Swifto]

hormones can be a btch. What cycle is this?

Its in there mate. Test Prop 350mg/wk and Dbol for 3-4 week bursts.

[energizer bunny]

is this not similar to ronnie rowlands slingshot training use of steroids?

[D7M]

It would be interesting to know what your estrogen was like at the time of not feeling up to par.

With my TRT, I know exactly when my E is getting high, because I start feeling just how you described.

[layeazy]

d-bol is moderately estergenic could that be the problem? However i imagine that the prop would help with the balance

[Swifto]

Aromasin 10mg/EOD.

[rc_p90]

What do you mean youve been Taking test Prop and Dbol here and there?

What is here and there?

[marcus300]

It sounds like it was a estrogen problem or it could of been the dbol, depending how you was running the dbol sometimes it as that effect on some. Glad to see you got your levels back on track

[Swifto]

What do you mean youve been Taking test Prop and Dbol here and there?

What is here and there?

I never said I have been taking Test Prop "here and there".

I take Dbol or Tbol for 4-5 weeks, then take 2-3 weeks off because of negative lipid issues. Then repeat.

My problem could have been estrogen, yes. Although I have never run into estrogen being too low before.

Either way, I'm feeling the full effects of elevated Test levels again!

[terraj]

So the gains from Dbol die out due to receptors being saturated after 4-5 weeks right? So you reload for 2 weeks and go again.

Whats your liver values look like after that on/off on Dbol?

[M302_Imola]

I never said I have been taking Test Prop "here and there".

I take Dbol or Tbol for 4-5 weeks, then take 2-3 weeks off because of negative lipid issues. Then repeat.

My problem could have been estrogen, yes. Although I have never run into estrogen being too low before.

Either way, I'm feeling the full effects of elevated Test levels again!

Wonder if estrogen levels were too high?

[MBMETC]

swift i dont know tour cycle history but do you think its posible that 350mgs is just not doing it for you at this point and upping to 450mgs could have helped. also the 2 week break you ran no serms or anything just diet adjustments and then re-introduced the prop at the same 350mgs? what do you suppose your test levels were after those 2 weeks (prop clears realitively quick) it was essentially like starting a new cycle..

[Swifto]

So the gains from Dbol die out due to receptors being saturated after 4-5 weeks right? So you reload for 2 weeks and go again.

Whats your liver values look like after that on/off on Dbol?

Not sure about receptor saturation. I just get better results taking 1-2 weeks off, then on again. Or take weekends off and use orals for 6-8 weeks.

I've done Tbol and Dbol for 14-15 weeks before, with minimal increases in live values. But my lipids get f*cked pretty quick, hence the break(s) I take now.

I think all to often lipids on orals are over looked and hepatoxicity is very over rated.

Wonder if estrogen levels were too high?

If estrogen was too high, my gyno would be worse, I'd be holding a shit-ton of water and my acne would have exploded... I dont have a pimple...

swift i dont know tour cycle history but do you think its posible that 350mgs is just not doing it for you at this point and upping to 450mgs could have helped. also the 2 week break you ran no serms or anything just diet adjustments and then re-introduced the prop at the same 350mgs? what do you suppose your test levels were after those 2 weeks (prop clears realitively quick) it was essentially like starting a new cycle..

No. I've used 500mg/wk too. Not above that though.

No SERMs, nothing. Diet adjustments, like a detox for 2 weeks and then bang, it was like starting a cycle again.

My TT would have been very low, yes. Hypogondal. To be honest, the feeling I experienced when I dropped the TP, were not that different to when I was still using the TP feeling like shit.

This worked for ME. If you run into the problems like I did (short esters), give it a go.

[MBMETC]

by the way how long were you planning on running the cycle and have your run log cycles with prop (ie longer than 6 or 8 weeks)

[Swifto]

I'll be on it a while, no time limit really.

I've done cycles lasting a little less than 20 weeks and recovered fine. I'm fortunate to bounce back very well.

[yungone501]

Swifto, I respect all your advice and knowledge...

But arent you like 21 or somethinig???

[Swifto]

Swifto, I respect all your advice and knowledge...

But arent you like 21 or somethinig???

25 next month.

What does my age come into it for anyhow?

[baseline_9]

Swifto, I respect all your advice and knowledge...

But arent you like 21 or somethinig???

U are kind of conradicting urself by saying that m8

And no, I think he is 24 - 25ish

[baseline_9]

cool idea I supose swifto

Supose it alow the receptors to up regulate again, and then you can blast them with androgens

[Swifto]

Receptors dont down-regulate, the AR up-regulates with exogenous hormones. But there are other factors which slow gains. Taking a break isnt a bad thing I guess becuase of that reason.

I'm 25 next month and have been cycling for 6 years. I dont think my knowledge is much at question really, experience possibly, yes. But either way, I dont know what the f*ck my age has to do with taking time off during a cycle to refresh oneself.

[baseline_9]

Receptors dont down-regulate, the AR up-regulates with exogenous hormones. But there are other factors which slow gains. Taking a break isnt a bad thing I guess becuase of that reason.

I'm 25 next month and have been cycling for 6 years. I dont think my knowledge is much at question really, experience possibly, yes. But either way, I dont know what the f*ck my age has to do with taking time off during a cycle to refresh oneself.

Ok

Not doubting you, i take what u say as fact

can you explain why gains slow on cycle if the dosage is not upped.

Obviously that is nothing to do with the receptor as the additional androgens will only flood the receptor even more

[Narkissos]

I do this as well Swifto.

I also practice intermittent fasting year-round... but i bump it up to a real fast when i come off.

[M302_Imola]

If estrogen was too high, my gyno would be worse, I'd be holding a shit-ton of water and my acne would have exploded... I dont have a pimple..

true...I heard no mention of acne or gyno so that's why I made the assumption. Glad you are feeling back up to par now!

[Duckhombre]

I'm curious what would have happened if you would have bumped the dose? Just for the sake of curiosity?

I fast from time to time as well, but never PCT. That seems a little counterintuitive?

[Far from massive]

Swifto thanks for the thread,

I just finished a 7wk prop cycle and I feel I may have had the same thing happen. Around the beginning of week 4, I felt really flat. I tried to manipulate my AI intake to get a handle on it, but that did not seem to be it really as it took till week 6 before I really got back on track. If this happens again I think I will try just taking a week break then jumping back in and see what happens.

FFM

[kbm12345]

That is really interesting b/c i am currently on test p 100-150mg eod and have felt like absolute shit this past week, no motivation at gym, mild anxiety, not hungry. I am currently starting week 5 atm.


Edit: I just saw you are taking aromasin, i really feel that the aromasin is what is causing this, heaps of people i have spoken to have all felt pretty bad with no increase sex drive on cycle and they were all taking aromasin at 12.5mg ed.eod. Just an idea. I am also on 12.5mg aromasin ed

[yungone501]

Receptors dont down-regulate, the AR up-regulates with exogenous hormones. But there are other factors which slow gains. Taking a break isnt a bad thing I guess becuase of that reason.

I'm 25 next month and have been cycling for 6 years. I dont think my knowledge is much at question really, experience possibly, yes. But either way, I dont know what the f*ck my age has to do with taking time off during a cycle to refresh oneself.

Whoa there Swifto, LOL, I thought u were 21 and therefore should not be cycling. Thats it bro. Chill out...

[Hazard]

I ran into this problem myself..... I even had my tren up to 900mg's/wk and kept my test at 750mg's/wk..... I felt like I wasn't making any gains. I took a little over a week off from the gym and noticed stretch marks growing..... I then hit it hard again and felt like shit still.... so I came off.

Once I started hitting pct.... a new stretch mark came out. I think my body needed a break.... it was tired. Durring rest..... it seemed to grow. I'm recovering now.... planning my spring ahaha.

Glad you're back up to par swif!

~Haz~

[gymnerd]

Im pretty sure im at this point now? No matter what I throw at myself I cant get any bigger or stronger. Funny thing is my lifts are down even tho im on a good amout of test and tren. Im getting the tren sides just not the benifits, not much stregth not hardly any hardness I just think I need to come off for a while too.

[yungone501]

Thats exactly what happened here on my last test/tren cycle (that ended 2wks ago). The beggining and middle i was making awesome progress and everything was looking good and then...CRASH!...out of nowhere all progress stopped but also experiencing 'heavy' tren sides. Not sure if the sides caused it all but man i stopped quick. Its been a lil over 2 wks and im feeling much better but thqts never happened before. Ive cycled tren thrice and all were good cycles (yet very short).

[Userat204]

Swifto. Good thread my man. I had a similar experience recently and I took a two week break and was good to go. I have also done this with long esters. On a 16 week cycle I have stopped for two weeks at around week 10, because feeling like crap and gains slowed then jumped back on at same dose for another 6 weeks and was feeling better and gained a little more. I don't know why this works but for me it has made all the difference in well being.

[eGGz]

Having ran multiple cycles, long cycles up to 30weeks and short cycles, I have concluded that this is the only way to go. Keep in mind, I'm on TRT and hence recovery is a non issue.

Nowadays I'll run 9 weeks heavy with multiple compounds and then go back to my trt dose for 3 weeks. I can repeat this protocol multiple times in a year and continue to "feel" great throughout the year without burnout.

The reason for the 9x3 schedule is because I prefer long esters. There is enough residual test in my system from the previous 9 weeks and the 3 weeks of trt dosing so that by week 3 of heavy dosing again I'm right in the sweet spot of my next cycle. This sweet spot lasts for 6 more weeks which based on past cycles is about how long the "sweet spot" lasts for me anyway.

Then its back to the trt dosing. So in essence it feels like I'm "on" for 6 weeks and cruising for 6 weeks. Cruising meaning trt dosing for 3 and waiting 3 weeks for the next sweet spot to kick in. The other thing I'll add is that I pretty much avoid orals. Occasionally I'll run some anavar but its rare.

[Kiki]

Currently taking a 1 week break at week 15, then continuing for another 5. I think stopping and starting makes a difference with libido, I just personally wouldn't have made a thread about this cause people would have called me crazy.

I'm 24, started juicing at 22, like you swifto, I recover pretty fast with a basic PCT of nolva and clomid after longer cycles.