Keeping gains after a cycle?

[Helpmeout]

Yea, i know proper PCT, diet and training would help in keeping gains.. I did a search too.. But most were just talking about the gains they kept only a few days after PCT..

Lets say you gain 20lbs during a cycle, and kept 15lbs just after PCT.. After about 6-12 months training natty with consistent training and proper diet, would you be able to keep that 15lbs and even continue making gains from it? Or is it like in a thread I read on earlier that roids lower your genetic potential?

[bjpennnn]

I would day one cycle a year to help maintain.

[delta1111]

In time you will lose what you gained on AAS, unless you keep cycling. The only gains you will keep are the gains your natural hormones will allow you to keep. These 2 examples are of course assuming you continue training. You cannot expect your natural hormone levels to sustain mass you have obtained through the use of AAS, it just won't happen. HGH of course, is a whole different ball game, but your not asking about that.

[Helpmeout]

okay, so if someone is 5'7" 185lbs and gained to 200lbs with roids, but then he decided to train natty for about 1 1/2-2 years before starting another cycle, would he eventually drop back to 185lbs or still be able to maintain 190-200lbs and even increase it since he has done proper PCT, good diet and training and given that he has recovered for the time being natty..

[Arai]

What doesn't make sense to me in all this is that if someone gets up to a certain mass/strength on cycle, aren't they then able to work with more weight and with proper diet keep the muscle sustained? Would you lose it just because of hormone levels?

[Helpmeout]

What doesn't make sense to me in all this is that if someone gets up to a certain mass/strength on cycle, aren't they then able to work with more weight and with proper diet keep the muscle sustained? Would you lose it just because of hormone levels?

one of the things ive been thinking about..

[delta1111]

[QUOTE=Arai;5499317]What doesn't make sense to me in all this is that if someone gets up to a certain mass/strength on cycle, aren't they then able to work with more weight and with proper diet keep the muscle sustained? Would you lose it just because of hormone levels?[/QUOTE]

If your body was to stop producing test, you would lose all gains regardless of diet and training. Test is one of the things that make men different than women. Just look at the level of muscle women can naturally sustain compared to men. Hormones are crucial!

okay, so if someone is 5'7" 185lbs and gained to 200lbs with roids, but then he decided to train natty for about 1 1/2-2 years before starting another cycle, would he eventually drop back to 185lbs or still be able to maintain 190-200lbs and even increase it since he has done proper PCT, good diet and training and given that he has recovered for the time being natty..

It depends where that persons natural genetic limit was. The idea is, you don't use AAS until you have reached that limit. Any thing gained after that limit has been reached (with the use of AAS) will eventually be lost, back down to natural genetic limit. Diet and training will determine how quickly the losses occur.

[Arai]

What doesn't make sense to me in all this is that if someone gets up to a certain mass/strength on cycle, aren't they then able to work with more weight and with proper diet keep the muscle sustained? Would you lose it just because of hormone levels?[/QUOTE]

If your body was to stop producing test, you would lose all gains regardless of diet and training. Test is one of the things that make men different than women. Just look at the level of muscle women can naturally sustain compared to men. Hormones are crucial!

okay, so if someone is 5'7" 185lbs and gained to 200lbs with roids, but then he decided to train natty for about 1 1/2-2 years before starting another cycle, would he eventually drop back to 185lbs or still be able to maintain 190-200lbs and even increase it since he has done proper PCT, good diet and training and given that he has recovered for the time being natty..

It depends where that persons natural genetic limit was. The idea is, you don't use AAS until you have reached that limit. Any thing gained after that limit has been reached (with the use of AAS) will eventually be lost, back down to natural genetic limit. Diet and training will determine how quickly the losses occur.

True haha I hadn't thought of it that way.. but so pretty much if you're going to go on AAS and you're at your genetic limit, then you're going to have to go on at least every few years for the rest of your life.. but if you aren't at your limit then you could actually short-cut to it using AAS and then sustain that strength/mass?

[delta1111]

True haha I hadn't thought of it that way.. but so pretty much if you're going to go on AAS and you're at your genetic limit, then you're going to have to go on at least every few years for the rest of your life.. but if you aren't at your limit then you could actually short-cut to it using AAS and then sustain that strength/mass?

That seems logical, but some would probably argue with that theory.

[Helpmeout]

so....? if someone gained 15lbs during cycle and kept 10lbs after pct, he will eventually lose that 10lbs after a few months and need to run a stronger cycle next time?

if thats the case, the idea of -"oh, im just gonna run a few cycles (3-5 cycles) in my life then maintain it naturally after", is pointless?

and........ "im just running a few cycles then i'll stop because i dont want to mess up my body further" is kinda BS?

[missionone]

Though I am new I agree with the theory that you won't be able to keep the gains unless you were able to off of AAS. As we age I know our hormones decrease which to me means that once your cycle is done you will gradually lose your size. Unless you cycle...

[MACHINE5150]

it depends on your natural potential.. i did my first cycle when i weighed 200lbs 11%BF and got up to 220lbs 9%BF.. and just recentaly did another for the first time in 6 years and went from 245 22%BF to 245 17% BF.. i was a few lbs heavier on cycle. I have a big frame though so the weight will stick on me.. It wouldn't stick on most people thoguh. So you do keep your gains sometimes.. You definitley lose the strength though.. nothing quite like the strength you get off ABombs

[g-banger]

i know someone who used aas at around 75kg/165lb because he stopped gaining naturally. he did 3 cycles of sust (im not sure in what time frame he did the 3 cycles in). he got up to 110kg/242lb after the 3rd cycle. then he stopped aas and dropped down to 98kg/215lb. he hasnt used steroids for 3 years and has maintained his weight at 98-100kg/215-220lb. so after 3 cycles he netted 25kg/55lb

[delta1111]

i know someone who used aas at around 75kg/165lb because he stopped gaining naturally. he did 3 cycles of sust (im not sure in what time frame he did the 3 cycles in). he got up to 110kg/242lb after the 3rd cycle. then he stopped aas and dropped down to 98kg/215lb. he hasnt used steroids for 3 years and has maintained his weight at 98-100kg/215-220lb. so after 3 cycles he netted 25kg/55lb

Yes but 215-220lb is probably his natural genetic max. He just got there quicker using AAS. I doubt very much that he had stopped gaining naturally at 165lb if he was able to further increase to 242lb using AAS. His gains just probably slowed down to the point where he thought they'd stopped. The longer we have been training, the harder it is to make progress. He probably would still have made progress by adjusting his diet or mixing up his training regime. How long was he training to get to 165lb and what was his starting weight?

[SergeantCarbs]

What is kept/lost after a bulk cycle always seems to be an ongoing debate on the boards. Who really can determine whether lost weight is water weight, the person slacking off after a cycle etc...

If cycling while cutting allows one to hold there overall weight (burn fat while building muscle), I'm wondering if this may be the better way to go. It would allow one to lean out while cycling and when the cut cycle is completed the user can switch immediately to a calorie surplus with room to grow. I'm wondering if this would be more beneficial to keeping ones gains.

[g-banger]

Yes but 215-220lb is probably his natural genetic max. He just got there quicker using AAS. I doubt very much that he had stopped gaining naturally at 165lb if he was able to further increase to 242lb using AAS. His gains just probably slowed down to the point where he thought they'd stopped. The longer we have been training, the harder it is to make progress. He probably would still have made progress by adjusting his diet or mixing up his training regime. How long was he training to get to 165lb and what was his starting weight?

yeah im sure he wouldnt have been at his natural max when he started, i think he just hit a plateau. im not sure what his starting weight was but he said he was training for a year before using aas. so yeah he basically used steroids to reach his genetic limit. i know the general way of doing things is to not use steroids until you have reached your genetic potential, BUT if its not possible to hold onto gains above your genetic potential without the continual use of steroids, then whats the point? who wants to be using gear forever just to stay big? why do so many people on here have a problem with using steroids to reach your genetic limit? i see it as a fast track to reaching your goals, not just a way of blowing beyond your genetic limits. ive never used steroids by the way, maybe in the future i will. but i personally dont see the problem with using aas as a way of simply making faster gains, as long as you have good training experience and youre not too young. im not an expert, thats just my humble opinion.

[Arai]

What is kept/lost after a bulk cycle always seems to be an ongoing debate on the boards. Who really can determine whether lost weight is water weight, the person slacking off after a cycle etc...

If cycling while cutting allows one to hold there overall weight (burn fat while building muscle), I'm wondering if this may be the better way to go. It would allow one to lean out while cycling and when the cut cycle is completed the user can switch immediately to a calorie surplus with room to grow. I'm wondering if this would be more beneficial to keeping ones gains.

that sounds pretty smart to me. But I guess it could possibly be wasting your gear, as if you'd do a bulk cycle you would be able to gain significantly more.. but yeah it all comes back to how much you can retain. It would be good if some of the vets chimed in on this more imo

[SergeantCarbs]

edit...

[dec11]

that sounds pretty smart to me. But I guess it could possibly be wasting your gear, as if you'd do a bulk cycle you would be able to gain significantly more.. but yeah it all comes back to how much you can retain. It would be good if some of the vets chimed in on this more imo

i'd personally say tht best to bulk natural and cut with cycle, cutting naturally loses alot of muscle whereas cutting on aas preserves the majority

[rasmsd]

I think if u train hard enough, eat alot you will have a good chance to keep most

[bigdaddyets]

Good stuff

[flexandex]

This is the problem with 'don't use steroids till you're at your genetic limit'
Alot of people simply don't want to go beyond that, let alone have to do more than 1 cycle to maintain it.

Accelerated growth to your genetic limit is a valid use for steroids.

[SlimJoe]

If you train hard and keep diet in shape cannot see why not all the best slim

[dec11]

This is the problem with 'don't use steroids till you're at your genetic limit'
Alot of people simply don't want to go beyond that, let alone have to do more than 1 cycle to maintain it.

Accelerated growth to your genetic limit is a valid use for steroids.

yeah and you've much to learn. best not to come on to advice threads, you've none worthy to give

[MACHINE5150]

This is the problem with 'don't use steroids till you're at your genetic limit'
Alot of people simply don't want to go beyond that, let alone have to do more than 1 cycle to maintain it.

Accelerated growth to your genetic limit is a valid use for steroids.

yes, if you are over 25... you are 19, so no one here is gonig to say that it is a good idea to do steroids rather than just work out naturally for another year.. you won't reach your genetic potential at 19.. so your point is not valid unless you are refering to people of age. I will not say reach your potential first.. but i will say you better be frigging close to it, cause you risk hurting yourself by gaining too much too fast and pushing yourself too hard and then one day at the gym you hear a pop and can never do bench or squats or whatever again... STEROIDS DO NOTHING TO INCREASE TENDON/JOINT STRENGTH, THAT COMES WITH LIFTING HEAVY OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME

[dec11]

If you train hard and keep diet in shape cannot see why not all the best slim

in theory yes, but doesnt always work tht way. i trained properly after cycles and kept my diet up but still lost most of gains. it would seem to be an individual thing but the bit that gets me is it happened the same way for three other guys i knew and trained with on and off

[Helpmeout]

I would day one cycle a year to help maintain.

After reaching my natural limit im sure i would want to get bigger, but 1 cycle a year to maintain is alot $$$, and each next cycle would have stacks and cost more $$$.. i suppose 1 cycle every 2 years would be fine too, i think.. man, id rather use that $1k to buy food, its much more worth it if we're not competing..

well one of my questions are not answered clearly enough yet- the idea of just having a few cycles (not maintaining one every year) is kinda BS?