Trying to shed 30lbs and maximise stamina

[68charger]

I recently started MMA (about 2 weeks ago), During live grappling Im getteng gassed fast and dont recover well when I do get a break in between matches. I know I am out of shape, but courious what type of diet will help me get through training sessions the best. My strength is great, but stamina is terrible.

For now I have been going high protein, but have no real strict diet plan. The only suppliments I take are creatine pills and mega man once a day vitamins. Im 30 pounds overweight and trying to shed the extra weight as well without losing too much strength.

[POPS]

welcome....

we will need some stats first; age, height, bf, training history, current diet...

basic supplements should be a multi vitamin, fish oil, bcaas. Drop the creatine for now. You also need to figure out your bmr and tdee to determine your diet. Do a search and go from there or check around for diets that the guys here have posted to give you a basic idea on things.

Again, welcome....youll be amazed on how much information is here....

[68charger]

Age 31, height is 5'11''. I started at 234 now down to 227. I have lifted weights since I was maybe 12 years old off and on. I have always had a good bench and pretty strong everywhere else. My build is kind of big and frumpy with a gut.
I started doing weights again in October. I was hitting the basics 3 times a week- chest, back, bies, shoulders and tries on the same day. Bench was doing real good sets were: 225x15 275x10 315x10. I never went any heavier than 315 for fear of hurting my shoulder again.
About 10 years ago I was benching more but only weighed 190. Im not sure if its possible, but I would like to get back to that size and strength.
Since I started MMA, I only do weights once a week. My strength has not dropped so far. My tarining classes are in the late morning and usually Im afraid to eat anything before I go since I still get the jitters and usually end up yacking during practice. My stamina is dehabilitating though. Im good for a couple minutes then its pure hell for the entire time going live. I really feel I could do well if I can just get my stamina up to speed with the other guys.
Right now I do intense 1.5hr sessions 5 days a week. There are more classes available, but Im not sure what is the proper amount without overtraining.

[jngymrat]

Like pops said, you have to put in the information, get some diet stats on here if you can. At a glance though, definitely get into cardio or endurance exercises, use your extra weight to your advantage right now. Its like running with a 30# pack on, as you start to decrease your weight you'll be stronger and faster progressively. But let's see what your eating now.

As far as your "before workout yacking" get a banana and a slice of whole wheat bread in you at least! This will help neutralize the acids in your stomach and give your body some energy. Your getting sick because when you exert your muscles with "load" your body has nothing to replace the glucose in the bloodstream, not to be confused with cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. I'm guessing your up for awhile before you work out, so your going way to long before working out and not eating something.

Include times if you can for your daily eating, training etc. Also, two weeks, your still just in the beginning of getting into shape, its going to take awhile it won't happen over night, I know you know this, however, congratulations on getting back into it!

[68charger]

Thanks for the input everyone.
Right now I get up around 7:30am and have one cup of coffe with cream and sugar. I get to work at 9 and usually dont eat anything before practice. some days training is 10am (2 days per week) and others its 11:30am (3 days per week) all sessions are 1 to 1.5hrs moderate to intense grappling, ju jitsu and Mai tai. I will try to force something healthy down in the morning. I also do weights for 1hour on the weekend.
Then I get back to the office a couple hours later and grab lunch. I usually try to grab something healthy from one of the local resturants like a grilled chicken sandwich or chicken salad.
I work until 5pm and by the time I pick up my kids and get home its usually after 6pm. Most days i try to grab a healthy snack like a turkey sandwich around 3pm, but dont always have time to do so.
When I get home at 6pm I will have something like a piece of fish with rice or a chicken breat and potato. A couple hours later I will eat a snack or something high in protein. I try my best to get at least 30 grams of protein per meal.
Evenings are hit or miss with me and a work in progress. It seems like after 730pm my appetite increases expedentially. Im constantly fighting myself not to eat something bad and when I do give in its a full out binge-fest. I have done good the past week, but the evening eating is mainly how I gained the weight so fast.
As I write this I am realizing how big of a mess my diet is.

[jngymrat]

Its okay about the diet being messed up, we have all been there. There are some basic fundamentals about eating you may or may not already know. Aside from getting your BMR and TDEE, you will get far better advice and a diet plan on how to proceed, you can get on line and use calculations to get close for right now. But more importantly, learning to eat 5-8 small meals a day rather than two or three is the only right way to proceed.

Research is clear, that if you keep your calorie surplus or deficit between 300-500 calories at all times you will be best to change your body composition by losing body fat and gaining lean muscle. If your eating three times a day your creating huge imbalances in your energy levels. Between meals your burning more calories than you taking in, at mealtimes your consuming many more calories than your burning, this is the blueprint to become FAT. So get into this mind frame. Eat more often but less calories and take in the proper foods every time you eat, this will keep your blood sugar on track and you will be less likely to binge or have hunger cravings.

A general rule of thumb may be something like this:

8AM: Breakfast
11AM: Snack
1PM: Lunch
4PM: Snack
6PM: Dinner
8Pm: Snack

Now, this is just an example or idea what we are talking about when eating, we can get into more details when myself or others get more involved. These are just some basic principals to give you a little more understanding. I actually like a 7-8 meal plan rather than 5-6, GB might get involved and give you some of his wisdom along with others, but this is foundational.

Knowing your meals and meal times ahead of time has allot of advantages, it allows you to plan and perfect your diet. In addition to eating more often, you will want to incorporate a portion of protein with complex carbohydrates the best you can in every meal and try the addition of green leafy vegetables with at least half your meals. A simple meal might look something like this:

Breakfast, 1 whole egg, 4-egg whites, (scrambled) 1/2 an apple, 1 slice whole wheat bread w/ small slather of all natural peanut butter. Couple hours later: maybe a scoop of whey isolate protein powder with a small handful of blueberries and some ice, and so on and so. You will find eating the proper combination of Protein, complex carbohydrates, essential fats along with fruits and vegetables will always keep you full and satisfied, and turn your metabolism and strength upside down. So just review and get back with your stats and we'll go from there.

But for more foundational information a 40/40/20 split of Protein, carbohydrates and fat is a good rule to follow for proper nutrition and exercise.

[POPS]

I got this from Gbrice. Im sure he'll pops in here sooner or later...the rest of his post is around here, somewhere..


Part 3 – Diet - Macronutrients:

I love analogies. Let’s use a good one. Think of your perfect body as a house that you must build. You’ve figured out your BMR and TDEE, so you know the exact specs of the property you have to work with. I’ve told you how exercise affects weight loss and how much of a caloric deficit we must create to lose said weight; so you know how to build - you understand architecture. You also know the pace you intend on losing weight at based on these other factors, so you know it will be harder to get your house built in weeks as opposed to months. The only thing left is the tools/building material you must use and because you don’t know how to eat, you still can’t build anything. At least, not well. Sure, you can starve yourself for a few months but you’ll just gain all the weight back in 2-nights of binge drinking – you’re house will fall down!

So, let’s talk tools baby. Let’s talk food. First off, there are only 3 types of foods/macronutrients. Protein. Carbohydrates. Fat. That’s it.

Protein – 4 calories per gram - Building material. Bricks. You can’t gain energy from protein, you can only use it to build muscle/skin/hair/nails. It’s basically just amino acids and it’s what our bodies are made of. As such, we need lots of it. 1g of protein per body lb is a good number to shoot for. Go as high as 2g per body lb if you’re lifting weights and trying to build muscle. For example, I am 210 lbs and I eat between 300-400 grams per day. Conventional wisdom states that our bodies can only break down so much at one time, so we want to eat 20-40 grams ofprotein in every meal, several times per day. However, more and more literature to the contrary is being published every day and there is no hard evidence to support the 20-40g “max absorption” concept. Still, with regard to metabolic health and maintaining a balanced diet, splitting your daily protein intake up among many smaller meals is going to be most efficient. Protein, being building material only and not energy/labor – the body can rarely find a reason for it to be stored as fat. If you must over-eat – make it lean meat/fish.

Carbs – 4 calories per gram - Think of these as human labor for your house. Think of sugar as dudes you pick up out front of home depot and oatmeal as a skilled carpenter. Both are carbs, both serve very different purposes. Carbs do not build muscle; they are simply an energy source. As such, they should only be eaten/used when we need energy. Any carbs we ingest before bed or before watching a movie, or something sedentary are not used as energy, and as such, are stored in the body as glycogen (glucose/water in our muscles that we will use when doing high-intensity exercise). Once our glycogen reserves are full, they are stored as fat. Yes, they will make you fat. Carbs can be your best friend or your worst enemy. As such, I will teach you what carbs to eat and when.

Fats – 9 calories per gram - Like carbs, fats are an energy source, not a building material like protein. They provide nowhere near as much energy as carbs however and are not the body’s preferred source. With regard to our house, think of fats as the glue/cement. They provide much needed essential fatty acids, which are great for joint/organ health, metabolism, and increase our protein synthesis (body’s ability to make use of the protein we give it). Going back to our analogy, cement/glue increases the effectiveness of bricks! If we give our bodies the right fats, it will be able to burn stored body fat quickly as it won’t see any use in keeping it. Remember, like carbs – not all fat is good and ALL fat is high in calories so watch out. A tablespoon of peanut butter can be a good addition to a meal. Snack on 5-6 tablespoons means you’ve just eaten over your TDEE for the day.

Part 4 – Diet – What to Eat:
Acceptable proteins for your healthy lifestyle diet:
The goal is to eat lean protein. Meats/other sources low in fat/carbs.
Ground beef (93% lean or better)
Lean steak (Flank, flat iron, or top sirloin)
Bison sirloin (the highest quality red meat)
Chicken breas
Turkey breast
Tuna (canned or sushi grade)
Salmon
Tilapia (mostly all white fish)
All shellfish
Venison
Whey protein (post-workout recovery purposes only)
Casein/Cottage cheese (before bed only)

Black-List Protein sources. Do not eat these because they are high in fat. And not the
good kind we find in nuts and olive oil – I’m talking about cholesterol raising saturated
fat!
1 Bacon
2 Sausage
3 Expensive fat-marbled Steaks (Ribeye, Strip, Filet)
4 Pork and beef ribs
5 Pork/Lamb chops
6 Restaurant ground beef (80/20 fat – most burgers)
7 Duck
8 Chicken legs/thighs
9 Chicken skin
10 Cheese


Acceptable Carbs for your healthy lifestlyle:
Complex carbs are now your creed. These are slower-digesting, natural, low on the glycemic index carbohydrates that digest slowly and provide us with sustained energy. They do not drastically affect our blood sugar and do not cause insulin spikes. Thus our body sees no reason to store them as fat, it would rather burn them for energy. Simple carbs such as enriched white breads/pastas/rice/potatoes/sugars (including most fruit) cause insulin spikes and are high GI foods. They should not be eaten when on a strict diet. Fruit can be consumed early in the day or pre/post-workout because of it’s high nutritional value but should usually be avoided due to being a form of simple sugar. Remember, healthy, low-calorie foods aren’t always the correct foods and such is the case with fruit.
1 Oats/Oatmeal
2 Grits/Cornmeal
3 Unsalted/non-buttered popcorn (great, low-cal snack)
4 Sweet potato (the best choice)
5 Butternut squash
6 Whole wheat pasta (not enriched)
7 Organic whole wheat bread (not enriched wonder bread crap)
8 Brown rice
9 Ezekiel bread
10 Swedish grain bread
11 Gluten free bread
12 Wheat couscous
13 Corn
14 Quinoa
15 Lentils
16 Beans
17 Many more, look up the GI (glycemic index) for healthy choices

Black List:
1 White pasta
2 White bread
3 Baguette
4 Bagels
5 Cookies, cake, muffins, cupcakes, all sweets basically.
6 White couscous
7 White rice
8 You get the idea…


Don’t get discouraged upon reading this list. I still make desserts all the time with whole
grain flour and splenda. I buy bagels and baguettes at the health food store that use
complex carbs as a base. If you’re dedicated, you don’t have to miss out 100%


Acceptable fats for your healthy lifestyle:
We look for fat sources that are high in omega-3, 6, and 9 fatty acids. Also, many are high in protein. We do not want saturated fats such as butter, cream, meat fat. We don’t want test tube fats like trans (the worst). We want mono/polyunsaturated fats that our body can use for something other than calories. Remember, even good fats are high in calories.
1 Natural peanut butter (no sugar added, just roasted peanuts)
2 Natural almond butter
3 Cashews
4 Almonds
5 Peanuts
6 Flax seeds
7 Flax seed oil
8 Salmon and Trout (great fatty proteins)
9 Fish oil
10 Extra virgin olive oil (should be used on all veggies/salads)
11 Chia seeds
12 Grapeseed oil
13 Macadamia nut oil

Acceptable miscellaneous foods:

These foods don’t provide much as far as macronutrients but are great for adding vitamins/minerals and taste. Notice some of these other foods are dairy. Dairy is another animal’s milk. We lack the enzymes to digest it as they do and it’s high in fat/sugar. It should only be eaten early in the day for nutrient purposes with the exception of whey and casein (cottage cheese).
1 Skim milk (Hood brand is only 45 calories and 3g of sugar per cup)
2 Greek yogurt (no sugar added)
3 Berries (all berries are much lower in sugar than other fruits and packed with fiber/nutrients – eat berries)
4 Green Vegetables. These are technically carbs but they are packed with fiber (a type of carb that isn’t used as energy or stored). In bodybuilding/nutrition – we refer to most vegetables as fibrous carbohydrates. While a serving of Broccoli may have 6g of carbs, 5 are from fiber. Meaning that it contains only 1g of storable carbohydrates. In addition, green vegetables are a calorie neutral/negative food (our body uses more calories to digest them than they contain – think celery). Veggies should be eaten with every meal. Every day. If you do this, you can become almost impervious to getting sick. Some vegetables are better than others for healthy diets.
5 Many non-green vegetables. Most are fine – just check labels, some have a good bit of sugar and should be eaten in moderation only (carrots)

[68charger]

Thanks for the info, I will post up once I get my stats figured out. BUT out of couriosity- Why should I stop taking the Creatine?
The reason I ask is on the grappling days I get taken to the edge of my phisical ability and by the time I get home I am completly broke down. I thought the creatine would help me recover a bit faster.
Since grappling is only 2 times a week I get a day in between to recover during the moderate Mai Tai class which mostly focuses on technique and hand/foot work & light sparring.

[POPS]

Thanks for the info, I will post up once I get my stats figured out. BUT out of couriosity- Why should I stop taking the Creatine?
The reason I ask is on the grappling days I get taken to the edge of my phisical ability and by the time I get home I am completly broke down. I thought the creatine would help me recover a bit faster.
Since grappling is only 2 times a week I get a day in between to recover during the moderate Mai Tai class which mostly focuses on technique and hand/foot work & light sparring.

IMHO creatine slowed me down. Dont get me wrong, I liked the way it made me feel but I felt that creatine slowed my cutting progress. If recovery is an issue add some extra glutamine. It does woders.

[68charger]

I went to GNC today to pick up some glutamine. The guy that works there talked me into a couple other products (seems to happen everytime I go to GNC). The first was CLA 1000 gel caps for weight loss and the other was a recovery shake called after glow which contained glutamine.
I guess I need to take the shake right after my workouts. I bought the glutamine pills as well to suppliment as needed.

[POPS]

good. Im not hip to cla 1000 or what it does to aid in fatloss. Nothing beats fatloss besides a solid diet and cardio.

In not 100% on this but I think that the recc dose for glutamine is around 10g/day minimum. I bought the powder so I have 1 scoop in the am and the other with my pwo shake IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING my workout. It does wonders for recovery.

I reccomend staying with the basic supps : multi vitamin, fish oil, bcaas, glutamine, whey protein and if you want add casein protein before bed.

[gbrice75]

The guys have given you some solid advice for sure. Creatine is known to cause you to retain water, and with that can make you sluggish - not ideal given your goals.

We can definitely talk diet, but in sticking with your original post regarding getting winded - start doing alot of cardio! You need to get your body used to slower and sustained energy expenditure ... I do NOT mean doing low intensity cardio necessarily, but it's obvious that you need cardiovascular conditioning if you're getting winded so quickly.

I'd suggest using the stairmaster/stepmill as your number 1 choice if your gym has it. Another one I like is walking on the treadmill at 3.5 (you may be able to go faster or slower) with the incline set at 12... 15 minutes absolutely no hands... then I bump the speed up to 4.0 and incline down to 7.0 and walk for 3 minutes, then all out sprint for 45 seconds, repeat for 15 minutes.

Boxing - do you have a heavy bag in your gym? This is EXCELLENT cardio, and you can practice at least some punches and kicks for your MMA in the process.

Hope this helps.

[68charger]

Yes, the Gym has several heavy bags of all types, it is basically set up for strictly MMA. On Mai Tai days we we go over combos, kicks and defence and drill them at a high pace. I dont get nearly as winded boxing as I do with grappling though. My wind is definatly getting better each practice now and my explosive movements are 10 times better and faster.

But now I have a new problem. About halfway through practice my elbow joints start to ache intensely. Its So bad that the pains shoot down my forearms and up my bicepts & tricepts. Its like an intense achey shooting pain. It seems to get worse right after practice as I cool down.
Today it was so bad I got nausiated on the way home. It goes away after about 2 hours and 2 advil later. Then returns when I grapple. I weighd in today at 222 so, Im moving in the right direction there.
I also found this article in another forum on building fight stamina which seems pretty awesome:
http://www.versaclimber.com/pdf/myth...ers_cardio.pdf

[gbrice75]

I think I know EXACTLY what you're talking about with that arm/joint pain - feels like shin splits but in the forearms? If so, I have the issue too.

What does your tricep and bicep routine look like?

~GB

Yes, the Gym has several heavy bags of all types, it is basically set up for strictly MMA. On Mai Tai days we we go over combos, kicks and defence and drill them at a high pace. I dont get nearly as winded boxing as I do with grappling though. My wind is definatly getting better each practice now and my explosive movements are 10 times better and faster.

But now I have a new problem. About halfway through practice my elbow joints start to ache intensely. Its So bad that the pains shoot down my forearms and up my bicepts & tricepts. Its like an intense achey shooting pain. It seems to get worse right after practice as I cool down.
Today it was so bad I got nausiated on the way home. It goes away after about 2 hours and 2 advil later. Then returns when I grapple. I weighd in today at 222 so, Im moving in the right direction there.
I also found this article in another forum on building fight stamina which seems pretty awesome:
http://www.versaclimber.com/pdf/myth...ers_cardio.pdf

[68charger]

I think I know EXACTLY what you're talking about with that arm/joint pain - feels like shin splits but in the forearms? If so, I have the issue too.

What does your tricep and bicep routine look like?

~GB

My pain is right in the elbow joint I can feel it in the entire joint and the pains shoot up and down my arms. I never feel it when Im lifting weights only when I wrestle or do Ju Jitsu in practice. I have never had it before.
I only do weights once a week for now, since the fight training breaks me down alot. I hit my Bicepts, Tricepts, chest back and shoulders all on Sunday. So far I have not lost any strength and down 10 pounds.
I always start with bench press
1 warmup set 12-14 reps
heavy set of 10 reps good form
heavier set 10 reps good form
burn out on 315 usually 8-11 reps
then
Tricepts either lay on my back and tricept extend with heavy dumbell 3 sets of 12 or
Heavy Tricept pull downs on cable pull down 3-4 sets of 12
Straight lat pulls on cable 3 sets of 10 straight
then lighter at a downward angle 2 sets to burn out.
Curls are just either dumbell or curl bar 3 sets of 10 and hammer curls some days.
For shoulders I do light weight flys and raises 3-4 sets of 12-15.
My weight routine is not set in stone, I always go by how I feel or if something is not working or stalls I switch up my routine.

[gbrice75]

Ok, I guess it's something else after all. It sounded very similar to a pain I get from time to time (I have it now and it's FVCKING killing!), but mine is most definitely from lifting, and I know which lifts are causing it.

You're not doing enough to cause the pain i'm talking about, nor the lifts. Assuming you haven't already done so, you should talk to others who practice, or talk to an instructor or something.

PS - you must be a big mofo if you're burning out 8-11 reps of 315!

[68charger]

Ok, I guess it's something else after all. It sounded very similar to a pain I get from time to time (I have it now and it's FVCKING killing!), but mine is most definitely from lifting, and I know which lifts are causing it.

You're not doing enough to cause the pain i'm talking about, nor the lifts. Assuming you haven't already done so, you should talk to others who practice, or talk to an instructor or something.

PS - you must be a big mofo if you're burning out 8-11 reps of 315!

Which movements cause your pain? One of the coaches said if the pain goes away and does not inflame it may be a matter of working through it.
My bench and tries have always been strong everything else is average. I'm a pudgy 5'11" 222 right now tring to get down to 190.
I benched today and could barly manage 8 reps so the weight loss is affecting my bench. But its a trade off well worth it. I feel alot faster and more explosive in practice.

[gbrice75]

Typically any kind of barbell curl, and skull crushers are another. It's basically my elbow straight down the outside part of my forearm - it's a shooting pain, feels exactly like shin splints... and isn't so bad WHILE doing the exercises, but literally when I let go of the weight, I have to do it ever so slowly or it's excruciating. Then of course for days after it just plagues me.